13 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

If anyone has tips, a guide or something else I would appreciate it.

[Brutus2]

I am playing a Rogue dual wield and I have to say it takes time to develop. Every time I leveled up, I looked at my ability choices and thought, "nothing looks interesting." In fact, I started taking control of Anders during combat and treating Hawke more like a companion.

However it has gotten better. I took Assassian which I wasn't excited about at first but has turned out to be pretty cool. Mark of Death followed by Assassinate and then Pinpoint Strikes to finish, just tears through those elite targets. You really do become the guy who can take down the single big threat.

Also, I underestimated how the abilities in the dual wield tree would work. The one that builds your crit chance with each hit is nice, especially when you can add Explosive Strike to cap it off. I didn't think it would be useful because most targets don't need ten hits to kill. What I didn't know is that your "counter" carries over from one target to the next. So you can run around the battle taking down the weak targets and building up your counter. Then turn on the leader and use Explosive Strike on him. I also like the way they show you the icon over the target that keeps track of how many hits you landed so you know when to use ES.

[Mgiarc]

Depending on the difficulty your build will alter signifcantly.  On normal you can get away from cross class combos and really have a intresting build since the game is so forgiving at the difficulty.  Ill give you a build that I am currently using on hard and from there you can make your own decisions.

The focus is High Single Target dps, to get rid of pesky mobs with higher life, and to be the main sorce of dps during boss battles.

Lvl 16 rogue
str11
Dex32
MAg10
Cun35
Will12
Con22

Abilties

Dual Wield: Unforgiving Chain;  Explosive Strike/merciless strike;  Backstab/perforate;  Lacerate/maim
Subterfuge: Stealth; Lingering Shroud; Ambush; Evade
Shadow;  Pinpoint Strike; Inconspicuous; Decoy; Disorientating Criticals; Shadow Veil; Predator
Scoundral: Blindside
Specialist:Speed
Assassin: Bloodlust

I plan on respecin just becuase perforate isn't worth the ability point when i can spend it on something else.  Also I have black emporium and have the skill book from there and the dalish camp.  I plan on getting Assassin so I can add my cunning score to critical dmg and to mark bosses.

My companions are Fenris(tank) Merill(support/dps) and of course Anders(heals).  Since im on hard I don't have to worry about Fenris's aoe effecting my DW rogue. So having him built to stagger and having Merill only use stone fist/chain lightnig on staggered enemies she can take out pretty much all normal mobs with ease. 

For tougher ones(rage demons/desire demons/assassins etc) let your Unforgiving chane build up and unleash a devastating 6800 critical(x2 for each blade! That's 13600 dmg).

Also have anders get barrier and its upgrade and make him use it when ally is at 50% health so they don't take dmg.

Thats about it.  Each level I didn't really have a plan for his stats.  In the first act you can get by with putting less points in cunning but you really want atleast 18-22 cunning by deeproads or you will be regretting haveing such a low hp pool.

Modifié par Mgiarc, 14 mars 2011 - 12:13 .

[Stardusk78]

No one?

[Stardusk78]

Ah, thank you!

[Mgiarc]

edited for some spelling errors and to make it easier to read.

One thing to remember is that since there is no tank taunts with my builds, I rely on agro managment abilities.

My rogue can stealth and Decoy can take a pretty good beating and also seems to taunts the enemies into fighting it so I use that abilitiy when merill/anders are getting attacked.  Just make sure if your rogue takes agro to use those shadow abilities, thats what save's him.

Mind blast is essential too,  Anders has the stun upgrade merill dosn't.


Also this is by no means the "best" build, this is my first playthrough and it seems to be working pretty well so far,  I'm sure some math crunching person will come out with a build that will out perform mine in a week or so.  But until then this is a good enough start for you I think

Modifié par Mgiarc, 14 mars 2011 - 12:11 .

[eratis]

 DW rogues are devastating single target damage dealers, likely the best in the game, so emphasize that when you play them.  Go assassin - virtually every talent in that tree is great and worth investing in/upgrading (not really pinpoint strikes - I find by the end of the game I have such a huge chance to crit it's a waste).  Invest heavily in Dual Weapon as well. I used Shadow as my other specialization, but only got the critical damage talent there.  The rest of your points can go to utility - I love Goad, Armistace, and Blindside in Scoundral.

Have your rogue immediately take out high threat targets like mages and assassins.  Assassinate and Twin Fangs are your bread and butter.  When they're on cooldown (and they should always be on cooldown) toss out backstab, and then chain to Explosive Strike.

DW rogues have extremely limited AoE options - I like investing in Sabotage for some AoE CC/debuffs, but your milage may vary.  

[ickayR]

I wish this forum had a rep system,or positive/negative comments. I don't know which of these posts are actual good builds.

[Seloun]

Go for Twin Fangs in DW and Assassinate in the Assassin tree. Those are the biggest hitting attacks, with Assassinate capable of possibly the biggest CCC in the game (over 30k near the endgame). Both of those have about a ~11.2x multiplier to their damage, which I believe is the best of any ability (as reference, Backstab is about 2.6 and fully powered Explosive is about 5.6). Upgraded they're relatively efficient and only a moderate cooldown.

Your three primary attacks are Assassinate, Twin Fangs, and Maxed Explosive. You really want to only use Assassinate and Explosive in CCCs unless you're just wiping out trash. Explosive requires Staggered; the most reliable way to get this is from Shield Bash (which appears to have 100% application if upgraded on everything, including bosses). Brittle is harder to get on elite bosses, but for regular bosses or lieutenants, upgraded Petrify is basically a guaranteed Brittle (more reliable than Elemental options - Elemental is just bad in any case). Petrify + Assassinate will basically kill anything in one hit except for the elite bosses. For lieutenant groups, if you're not on Nightmare, use Petrify + Walking Bomb + Assassinate. TF has no CCC, so it's usually what you want to activate first while you're setting up the other combos.

Improving autoattack mainly comes down to getting the 100% flanking crit talent in Shadow and stacking crit damage (not crit chance) as basically all of your attacks should be critting 100% of the time anyway. The other important talent to get is the extra stamina on hit talent (follows Back to Back, forget the name) as you will typically be stamina strapped if you use your offensive abilities on or near cooldown with any bit of a utility at all.

Backstab is a very weak ability in terms of actual damage. It's mainly useful for quick positioning and movement (though basic lunge is typically sufficient for the latter).

Most of the rogue utility is somewhat dubious. Your biggest threats are typically enemies that aren't tightly clustered together (if they are tightly clustered, mage AE or warrior AE can usually handle them just fine). Rogue AE utility is typically very small radius, making it mostly redundant. Obscured is a nice status effect to go for, but I found in practice it's too expensive in talent points to get until much later (if you like archer NPCs, shattering arrow can provide it basically for free). The best personal utility for not dying is probably Decoy, but you get that anyway on your way to the 100% flanking crit talent. Unless you have a lot of willpower, you generally can't support both your attacks on cooldown and more than one or two utility talents.

[Gegliosch]

My lategame goal looks like this:


Dual Weapon: 8
Everything except Perforate and Murder for damage and guaranteed crits. I leave Perforate out, because we have enough better talents to spend stamina on and I dismiss Murder, because this skill always auto-positions into a flanking attack. This means Predator from the Shadow tree has the same effect and buffs basic attacks as well.


Sabotage: 5

Fully upgraded Fatiguing Fog for Obscure and AoE Disorient.

Scoundrel: 3
Blindside for more damage and Follow-Through for stamina.

Shadow: 3
Predator (as a replacement for Murder and an overall buff), Pinpoint Precision and Disorienting Criticals, less for the disorient (which we have in the fog already) and more for the crit dmg.

Assassin: 9
Everything except Relentless Strikes.


Stats:

Dexterity: Enough for desired gear
Stamina: Enough to spam the abilities
Cunning: Rest


This build tries to take advantage of the fact that every DW ability has a 100% crit chance. That's why we can dismiss crit chance enhancing talents and stats. In return we get a LOT more damage from these crits. In fact I believe this build offers the maximum amount of damage per crit you can get, while still maintaining a 100% crit chance for skills and still close to 100% for basic attacks. Also, a good amount of Disorient allows even AoE cross class combos.

Btw, my tank is going to use Battle Synergy to automatically draw 50% of aggro, which should guarantee him all the attention after his first hit, if my logic isn't flawed (or the talent description wrong). If I still find myself drawing more aggro than is healthy, I'll transfer a single point into a reset tool.

Modifié par Gegliosch, 14 mars 2011 - 03:57 .

[Adhin]

Not sure why no ones mentioned this but I did it for Isabela - in specialist the sustained 'Power'. Fully upgraded that is a 6% chance to stun a target 'every' attack. DW is the fastest attacking style there is, lots of attacks means it'll happen more often time wise. Even at its base for 3% it went a huge way towards keeping her alive, even against elites.

Personally I think speed is better used for Archery as there slower, the %increase will have a better effect there. Power though pretty damn sweet with that stun. There's also a talent that'll give 100% crit chance vs stunned enemies, which is a nice combo. 2 of the 3 DW active attacks are auto-crits though, and that 3rd one I believe is auto-crit if there staggered.

Either way with the stun and auto-crit on stuns, you could turn 'every' attack into one, as well as ignoring the upgrades that make plenty of the abilities auto-crits saving points for other stuff. Plus the added crowd control that provides does wonders for your survivability.

As for specializations, Shadow and Assassin are best for damage output, though Duelist will heavily improve survivability. Either way that's my favorite way to build a DW'er, to each there own though.

As for stats I do not agree with willpower as above. Dexterity just needs to be at 41 (highest dagger requirement). You could get away with 40 due to other items giving +stats. Past that all cunning, period. Willpower is wasted as rogues gain 1% stamina PER basic attack. And there is a stupidly 'easy' talent that'll stack another 1% on. 2%. At the rogues base of 125 stamina that's 2.5 stamina a hit. Hit a basic 10 chain combo and you already have 25+ stamina.

Seriously you wont run out of stamina as a DW rogue, its kind of insane to actually up willpower due to that. Archer rogues though attack horribly slow and as such the %stamina regen on hit isn't quite as... useful.

[Gegliosch]

Getting a fully upgraded Power requires 6 points in Specialist, plus the 1 point for the crit talent. That's a massive investment for an occasional single target stun that will only up your ability crit chance after a couple of basic attacks. There's also the 20% stamina loss and the fact that you simply don't need all this with built-in guaranteed crits. Take a look at the talents again, most of them auto-crit without upgrades and the ones that don't have damage buffs you want to get anyway. The exception is murder, which can easily be replaced by predator.

Btw, I never said I recommend points in willpower, I just said enough to spam abilities. I have no experience with the complete build yet and therefore can't tell whether I'll need more stamina or not. Most likely I will indeed end up with around 40 dexterity and the rest in cunning.

[JaykoVetinari]

Dual wield is great for dropping enemies fast. If you're not playing on nightmare and are using mages (preferably two) try this...

Get a bunch of enemies huddled up using Aveline or whoever your tank is, pick the one with the most health, preferably the boss or second tier if he's obviously got too much health...

1.) Use upgraded petrify to lock down and brittle the boss.
2.) Once you're sure it's brittle use Mark of the Assassin.
3.) While using that use Living Bomb.
4.) Assasinate.

That should kill pretty much the entire group. Assassinate is the highest single target damage skill in the game. It gets a massive cross-class multiplier on brittle targets, and living bomb spreads the damage to the entire group if you kill a high HP mob with the combo. I have ended several fights instantly this way. Also the Pride demon died in two of these cross class combos if it gives you an idea of how much damage it puts out.

[Adhin]

'occasional' is actually rather constant. 6% when you get out 10 attacks every 5 seconds isn't something to sneeze at. Yeah its a big investment but its pretty worth it. Sides, there's plenty of points to go around with tomes and such. And like I was saying, its just what I like to do, and was pointing out DW takes advantage of it best due to its speed.

Course, I have a tendency to ignore a lot of weapon skills in favor of other stuff. I'd end up doing that, and only having Back Stab. Focus more on 2 specializations and specialist with a bit in Scoundrel and Subterfuge.

Kinda how my warrior is currently setup. As of lvl 17 I have 3 in Warmonger, 7 in Vanguard, 7 in Reaver and 4 in Templar. End up being 9 in Reaver and not sure what to do past that but I may end up going more into 2H if I get to an excess of points. Anyways, point is that's 30 points, before 20. Scoundrel + Specialist is 10 points, leaves 20 for Assassin and few in Subterfuge. Could still max out DW tree too or branch out more into a 2nd specialization.

Seriously a lot of flexibility by Act 2, and definitely a lot of fun ways to go about building any class. Can have a DW rogue that are all wildly different from each other.