15 réponses à ce sujet

[Decibelle]

 From my first half-playthrough I sort of noticed that there's A LOT of mage-debates in this game. I played a rogue, so it wasn't so hypocritical to take a pro-circle/templar approach to this matter and make sure all apostates met were sent to the circle or killed. However, I'd like to know how a relationship with Fenris would work out as a mage.

Obviously he's pro-circle too. I got to 100% friendship with him with my anti-apostate rogue. But how would this work out as a mage? If I take an anti-apostate approach to the game as a mage myself, it'd make me the biggest hypocrite ever?

So, to romance Fenris as a mage without being a hypocrite, I'd have to be full rivalry with him?
And on a side note with the rivalry/friendship thing - does the relationship vary if you're a rival rather than a friend?

Thanks!

[Dangerfoot]

Yeah, I was also wondering if you can be full rivalry with Fenris, choose the mages at the end, and still finish the romance subplot when you ask him back into your group.

I'm wanting to be a lady Hawke blood mage with a soft spot for him despite them being worlds apart with different motives.

[leggywillow]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Yeah, I was also wondering if you can be full rivalry with Fenris, choose the mages at the end, and still finish the romance subplot when you ask him back into your group.

If Fenris is at 100% rivalry, he won't leave in the first place.  He'll say something like "This is stupid, but I'll help you out anyway".

[Decibelle]

I'm too much of a carebear to be at rivalry anyway, but I feel it might be impossible for a friendship-relationship with him as a mage... maybe I'll reserve mage for Sebastian then.

[stringlights]

It's very hard to friendmance Fenris as a mage. In my first playthrough I nearly got him to full Friendly, but for the longest time he remained neutral because I took him everywhere.

Basically, if you want to friendmance him as a mage, you need to take him on quests involving slavers and be anti-slave. But you need to leave him out if the quest is gonna involve you siding with mages. Especially if you let them go.

[ThatDancingTurian]

I don't see why people are scared of rivalry. I've also seen some people saying they hate Fenris for disagreeing with them.

I loved rivaling Fenris as a pro-mage mage!Hawke. It doesn't mean you hate each other, it means you have a mutual respect for each other even if you happen to disagree about some pretty fundamental issues. It made him staying with me and wanting to be with me all the more satisfying IMO. He stood by his convictions regarding mages, and to be honest he was right about a lot of things (Anders and Merrill, for instance). I'm glad I couldn't just change his mind like flipping a light switch as so often happens in these games.

But he never hated my mage Hawke just because she was a mage, what he disagreed with was being blind to the dangers that mages present.

[Addai]

psychopomp wrote...

It's very hard to friendmance Fenris as a mage. In my first playthrough I nearly got him to full Friendly, but for the longest time he remained neutral because I took him everywhere.

Basically, if you want to friendmance him as a mage, you need to take him on quests involving slavers and be anti-slave. But you need to leave him out if the quest is gonna involve you siding with mages. Especially if you let them go.

I'm doing it, by playing a lawful good mage who believes in the Circle despite being an apostate.  In my head it's because Hawke's father was a Circle mage starting out and she was trained by him, but realizes that not every mage has access to that, and the consequences of unrestrained magic are too dire.  DA2 really helps you out on that point.  The combination of supporting the Circle and killing slavers nets a lot of friendship points with Fenris.

On my first pt, my blood mage was at 100% rivalry and he didn't leave when she supported the mages.  He says "this is a mistake, but I'll stand by your side."  I believe he has to be at 100%, though.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 mars 2011 - 01:30 .

[Addai]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I don't see why people are scared of rivalry. I've also seen some people saying they hate Fenris for disagreeing with them.

I loved rivaling Fenris as a pro-mage mage!Hawke. It doesn't mean you hate each other, it means you have a mutual respect for each other even if you happen to disagree about some pretty fundamental issues. It made him staying with me and wanting to be with me all the more satisfying IMO. He stood by his convictions regarding mages, and to be honest he was right about a lot of things (Anders and Merrill, for instance). I'm glad I couldn't just change his mind like flipping a light switch as so often happens in these games.

But he never hated my mage Hawke just because she was a mage, what he disagreed with was being blind to the dangers that mages present.

I agree.  I think it's carryover from Origins where getting negative approval was bad news.  In DA2 it's much more a matter of being consistent than of always trying to butter people up.

[leggywillow]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I don't see why people are scared of rivalry. I've also seen some people saying they hate Fenris for disagreeing with them.

I loved rivaling Fenris as a pro-mage mage!Hawke. It doesn't mean you hate each other, it means you have a mutual respect for each other even if you happen to disagree about some pretty fundamental issues. It made him staying with me and wanting to be with me all the more satisfying IMO. He stood by his convictions regarding mages, and to be honest he was right about a lot of things (Anders and Merrill, for instance). I'm glad I couldn't just change his mind like flipping a light switch as so often happens in these games.

But he never hated my mage Hawke just because she was a mage, what he disagreed with was being blind to the dangers that mages present.

But the thing is, it can be hard to do within the context of role-playing a certain Hawke.  For example, I am tearing my hair out trying to plot my current mage Hawke.  She's supposed to be sweet, helpful, kind, and pro-mage.  During the first chat at Fenris's mansion, she racked up at least 20 friendship points just being herself: picking the sweet, nice dialogue options.  But on missions, she racks up the rivalry points because she tries to help the mages they meet.  The net result is that they cancel each other out and the relationship goes nowhere.

So yes, rivalry is supposed to mean respect in the face of some serious disagreements.  But you also get friendship points for being... well, friendly, and rivalry points for being a jerk.  I rivalmanced Fenris with my militant, mean mage and it was easy because she was a complete jerk face to him.  XD  My sweetheart mage is a lot harder, and I'm not sure which way to go.  If I actually use him and bring him on lots of missions, he'll get into rivalry territory real quick... but if I'm nice in our personal interactions, he gets friend points again!  It is going to be a tricky balancing act.

[ThatDancingTurian]

leggywillow wrote...

But the thing is, it can be hard to do within the context of role-playing a certain Hawke.  For example, I am tearing my hair out trying to plot my current mage Hawke.  She's supposed to be sweet, helpful, kind, and pro-mage.  During the first chat at Fenris's mansion, she racked up at least 20 friendship points just being herself: picking the sweet, nice dialogue options.  But on missions, she racks up the rivalry points because she tries to help the mages they meet.  The net result is that they cancel each other out and the relationship goes nowhere.

So yes, rivalry is supposed to mean respect in the face of some serious disagreements.  But you also get friendship points for being... well, friendly, and rivalry points for being a jerk.  I rivalmanced Fenris with my militant, mean mage and it was easy because she was a complete jerk face to him.  XD  My sweetheart mage is a lot harder, and I'm not sure which way to go.  If I actually use him and bring him on lots of missions, he'll get into rivalry territory real quick... but if I'm nice in our personal interactions, he gets friend points again!  It is going to be a tricky balancing act.

I agree, it can be incredibly tricky. I couldn't get Merrill to go anywhere because I was nice to her but
never supported her blood magic. She ping-ponged all over the place. But it didn't wreck her story at all. Just play the game the way you want to and it'll all work out.

I also played a diplomatic mage and was never rude to Fenris but took him with me everywhere and supported the mages, so the rivalry points eventually won out fairly easily. I had no problems romancing him, the relationship worked out fine.

I think the point is not to worry too much about meta-gaming.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 14 mars 2011 - 01:53 .

[Quyk Sylvyr]

I actually found that as long as I was anti-slaves and anti-demons, Fenris wasn't too bad. I have to admit I left him out of 1-2 mage quests. . . but think about it- would a nice character re6ally want to subject Fenris to having extra dealing with mages if he didn't need to go? Also, it made me smile when I took Fenris with me to deal with the boy mage who may have been taken by slavers. Even though it was a mage, Fenris was more than happy to go after those slavers.

[Chassthemighty]

My first playthrough was as a Mage, Pro-Mages (I DEFY YOU, DEMON IDOL WOMAN) and Fenris and I were Bros. Seriously, Fenris and my Hawke had more banter than I could have ever thought possible. So long as you punt Slavers and Demons in the head, he's fine. Varric, Fenris and I spent many an hour standing in random places waiting for exciting banter. While he wasn't super excited that I sided with the mages, he still supported me and we went on to Bro Out the Templars into the sunset.

[Decibelle]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I don't see why people are scared of rivalry. I've also seen some people saying they hate Fenris for disagreeing with them.

I loved rivaling Fenris as a pro-mage mage!Hawke. It doesn't mean you hate each other, it means you have a mutual respect for each other even if you happen to disagree about some pretty fundamental issues. It made him staying with me and wanting to be with me all the more satisfying IMO. He stood by his convictions regarding mages, and to be honest he was right about a lot of things (Anders and Merrill, for instance). I'm glad I couldn't just change his mind like flipping a light switch as so often happens in these games.

But he never hated my mage Hawke just because she was a mage, what he disagreed with was being blind to the dangers that mages present.

The issue is not against me fearing rivalry, I just fundamentally agree with him on the mages part. I think they should all be locked up.

... so I'd find myself a big hypocrite for playing one, since you're an apostate in game. This was more a question on hypocricy (ie. can you side with templars if you're an apostate yourself, and how does it affect your standing with characters like Fenris?) Thanks for answers anyone

Modifié par Decibelle, 14 mars 2011 - 08:24 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Decibelle wrote...

The issue is not against me fearing rivalry, I just fundamentally agree with him on the mages part. I think they should all be locked up.

... so I'd find myself a big hypocrite for playing one, since you're an apostate in game. This was more a question on hypocricy (ie. can you side with templars if you're an apostate yourself, and how does it affect your standing with characters like Fenris?) Thanks for answers anyone

Sorry, that wasn't directed solely at you, it's just a vibe I'm getting from the forums. Characters that are easy to rival like Fenris and Carver are generally disliked for being 'jerks', even if they have valid reasons for their opinions. I see a lot of people calling Fenris a 'jerk' or 'rude' when he's never been especially confrontational with me (then again, I went almost entirely with diplomatic options, so that probably helped), he just has a certain viewpoint on mages and stands by his convictions. Some people seem put out when a character doesn't agree with you all the time.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 14 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

[MasterSamson88]

Yeah, rivalry wasn't really meant to be a bad side to the game, rather it was supposed to be an element that made it so you weren't punished for having disagreements with party members. Unlike in Origins where they'd leave or try to kill you.

[Decibelle]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Decibelle wrote...

The issue is not against me fearing rivalry, I just fundamentally agree with him on the mages part. I think they should all be locked up.

... so I'd find myself a big hypocrite for playing one, since you're an apostate in game. This was more a question on hypocricy (ie. can you side with templars if you're an apostate yourself, and how does it affect your standing with characters like Fenris?) Thanks for answers anyone

Sorry, that wasn't directed solely at you, it's just a vibe I'm getting from the forums. Characters that are easy to rival like Fenris and Carver are generally disliked for being 'jerks', even if they have valid reasons for their opinions. I see a lot of people calling Fenris a 'jerk' or 'rude' when he's never been especially confrontational with me (then again, I went almost entirely with diplomatic options, so that probably helped), he just has a certain viewpoint on mages and stands by his convictions. Some people seem put out when a character doesn't agree with you all the time.

Oh no no, didn't mean to come off as defensive Sorry!

But well, I am a roleplayer so I do take sides, but not for the reason of "it's not going well! I haet him/her!" - rather because I do disagree with them. Like with this apostate idea of Anders, I just prefer siding with say Fenris because I do think mages should be locked up.

And I was also curious as to see if it was an entirely new experience from having a rivalry-romance. Thanks for your answers!