184 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ella is the child referenced by Bethany in her letter, so I don't really want to explore how depraved Ser Alrik or the templars with him are for implying that he would rape her.

But duuuuuude!  She was trying to escape!  </sarcasm>

klarabella wrote...

Meredith and the templars are out to kill her and her friends. Don't you think that might make her less inclined to provide a nuanced point of view, no matter how bearable she may have found the Circle before?

And considering what they did to Karl writing a letter with dissent to Anders, we're supposed to believe the letter she sends Hawke would contain "Maker, this place is a thousand times worse than death" if she was thinking it?

Lore states that an abomination can only be brought down by a handful of templars and that a normal warrior is no match for the power of a possessed mage. Hawke (or the Warden for that matter) has no problem taking out a bunch of abominations at once.

Don't you think that is a mite over the top?
I assume this is supposed to please the crowd who wants to press a button and AWESOME. It's certainly not a shining moment of story-telling.

Welcome to RPGs.  If you'd like to take it up with the Warden, he's standing over there by the corpse of the archdemon he killed.

LessThanKate wrote...

Oh, you're a funny guy, you sure got me there! It's not like I said he was sweet or anything, only the second part of what I said matters!

I wasn't being sarcastic.  I really do think it's silly the way society condemns people for judging people on looks at the same time teaching that it's great to judge people on intelligence when both of them are something decided randomly at birth for the most part.

I'm not saying everyone should be judged solely on their appearance, but I am saying that society has a double standard.

[berelinde]

Rifneno wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Meredith and the templars are out to kill her and her friends. Don't you think that might make her less inclined to provide a nuanced point of view, no matter how bearable she may have found the Circle before?

And considering what they did to Karl writing a letter with dissent to Anders, we're supposed to believe the letter she sends Hawke would contain "Maker, this place is a thousand times worse than death" if she was thinking it?

This. Also, if Bethany were abused or raped while incarcerated in the Kirkwall Circle, her sibling would be the last person she would tell. Years later, maybe, or sooner if it would become obvious at some point. She wants a normal life. She does not want her sibling freaking out, seeking vengeance, or worse, thinking that she asked for it somehow.

And don't forget that male Circle mage in Act 2 who is beseeching his now-tranquil lover to come back to him. Another of Alrik's victims.

[Nyreen]

HarlequinKing wrote...

Just wondering, since I haven't seen a single Sebastian fangirlI've read that it's the most difficult romance option. 

He's a goddamn prude, that's why. 

[LessThanKate]

Rifneno wrote...

LessThanKate wrote...

Oh, you're a funny guy, you sure got me there! It's not like I said he was sweet or anything, only the second part of what I said matters!

I wasn't being sarcastic.  I really do think it's silly the way society condemns people for judging people on looks at the same time teaching that it's great to judge people on intelligence when both of them are something decided randomly at birth for the most part.

I'm not saying everyone should be judged solely on their appearance, but I am saying that society has a double standard.

All right, my apologies, then. Some things get...lost with text.

To be honest, if it were any character besides him with that small a romance, I wouldn't have gone for it. I just like the guy, aesthetically and...otherwise.

Celestina wrote...

HarlequinKing wrote...

Just wondering, since I haven't seen a single Sebastian fangirlI've read that it's the most difficult romance option. 

He's a goddamn prude, that's why. 

I sort of like him for that. I've never been crazy about characters that so readily gave it up. Not that he ever does, but...well, I've gone over that. It's still fun to make him nervous, though. If I had my way, there'd be more of that.

As for not having seen a single fangirl, well...you know there's a support group AND a group for him, right? 

Modifié par LessThanKate, 21 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[AlistairsGirl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Even though this is what I wanted to do to him after! 

i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff516/krissysleigh/Seabby.gif

 OMG!  You can deck that preachy freak?!  Info please!

I just changed Isabela to look like Sebastian and did her Act 3 quest at the brothel.  It was well worth it lol!

So Hawke is supposed to be able to knock out Isabella instead of Sebastian?

Yip.  When you do that scene, choose the aggressive option and Hawke will knock her out.  Hmm, I'm not sure if M!Hawke would do that though?  That would be pretty mean.  I haven't played M!Hawke, so I can't be sure.  But it's definitely there for F!Hawke.

[The Angry One]

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Yip.  When you do that scene, choose the aggressive option and Hawke will knock her out.  Hmm, I'm not sure if M!Hawke would do that though?  That would be pretty mean.  I haven't played M!Hawke, so I can't be sure.  But it's definitely there for F!Hawke.

Mean? My opinion is that if you deserve a deck in the face, you deserve it no matter if you or the person punching you are a man or a woman. Just saying.

[Cutlass Jack]

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Yip.  When you do that scene, choose the aggressive option and Hawke will knock her out.  Hmm, I'm not sure if M!Hawke would do that though?  That would be pretty mean.  I haven't played M!Hawke, so I can't be sure.  But it's definitely there for F!Hawke.

I knocked her out as a male Hawke who was romancing her. Why? Because she asked me to. She specifically says to not hold back and make it look convincing. Especially since my Hawke was such a nice guy in general (Charming variant.)

I kissed it better later.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 21 avril 2011 - 03:36 .

[Rifneno]

LessThanKate wrote...

All right, my apologies, then. Some things get...lost with text.

No problem.  Like you say, you can't tell tone with text hehe.

I sort of like him for that. I've never been crazy about characters that so readily gave it up. Not that he ever does, but...well, I've gone over that. It's still fun to make him nervous, though. If I had my way, there'd be more of that.

As for not having seen a single fangirl, well...you know there's a support group AND a group for him, right? 

I don't see what you mean.  Even Isabela, whom everyone is two shots from waking up regretfully next to, doesn't sleep with Hawke until Act II.  At which point they've known each other for 3 years.  If anything that's taking it at a snail's pace.  We just don't get to see those years because then the game wouldn't be out until we're all dead and buried.

The Angry One wrote...

Mean? My opinion is that if you deserve a deck in the face, you deserve it no matter if you or the person punching you are a man or a woman. Just saying.

Another thing society has wrong.  Oh boy is this going to be bad out of context...  It's not wrong to hit women, it's wrong to hit women first.  It's incredible the amount of women out there that think they can get away with anything down to outright physical abuse because men "aren't allowed to hit back."  **** that.

[AlistairsGirl]

Meh, I was just saying I didn't know if the option was there for M!Hawke to deck her is all as I haven't played him (until today).

As for men hitting women IRL.. hmm.. it's a tough one. BUT.. I have a temper and my hubby knows it. I've told him that if I get too out of line and strike out at him, he has permission to put me in my place again. It's only happened once in our 7 years and never again. I hated it, and he hated it. And yes, I deserved it To defend himself, yes a man has every right. That's just my 2 cents.

[thegrimfandango]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

After Anders confronts Merrill at your estate

When does this happen?

[Riona45]

Celestina wrote...

HarlequinKing wrote...

Just wondering, since I haven't seen a single Sebastian fangirlI've read that it's the most difficult romance option. 

He's a goddamn prude, that's why. 

Well, it also doesn't have the depth or content that the other "main" romances have.  It's basically a quasi-romance, and in the end it's implied that nothing comes of it.

[rak72]

Riona45 wrote...

Celestina wrote...

HarlequinKing wrote...

Just wondering, since I haven't seen a single Sebastian fangirlI've read that it's the most difficult romance option. 

He's a goddamn prude, that's why. 

Well, it also doesn't have the depth or content that the other "main" romances have.  It's basically a quasi-romance, and in the end it's implied that nothing comes of it.

I'd rather have his "quasi-romance" than any of the others.  I'd rather be alone than any of the others for that matter.

Edit - And, yes ... it is wrong for a man to hit a woman.  If she is beating on you, restrain her.  The damage a man can inflict with a blow is in no way comperable to what a woman can do.  If you are a man that hits a woman, then you are not a man.

Modifié par rak72, 22 avril 2011 - 03:05 .

[Riona45]

rak72 wrote...

I'd rather have his "quasi-romance" than any of the others.  I'd rather be alone than any of the others for that matter.

That's nice.

[MoMan313]

Goldens wrote...

I know I'm completely in the minority on this, but I liked that there's a relationship that doesn't include sex.  It's kind of refreshing.

YES! Dear one. you're not alone >:| I never liked that you had to sleep with someone to declare it a romance! Sheesh.

I did romance dear Chantry Prince Priest boyo here...Y__Y I actaully like his character,  and could have cared less if he was a chantry priest or a prince.. I'm one of his fangirls that actually likes HIM for HIM!

He has my 3 r's and a p... 

Reasonable (pwuah. I've seen other chantry priests..and they're no where as reasonable as he is... he actually quite reasonable..)
Rightoues
Relgious (Considering that I am religious)

And..

Pure most of all PURE. damn, pure people are hard to find these days!

And I was pretty stoked that I got to romance him at all!:wizard:<3

But was heavily let down because while I actually want the chaste thing, I at LEAST would want a kiss! FFS MAN. WE'RE GONNA GET MARRIED!!! AT LEAST "SEAL THE DEAL"!

Overall though..

The only thing I want to pound his head over is when you side with the templars, and the mages issue.

When you side with the templars, it brings the absolute WORST in him.
Templar ending: "These maleficarum will not stand against us! they will all PAY  for this!"

And I'm like... FFFFF! NOT EVERY APOSTATE IS A BLOOD MAGE YOU ASS!

In the mage ending you can convince him that what you're doing is right, and he opens his mind up a bit ;D

Seb: "Its hard to look at all these apostates and not see Anders.. The maker says that we have a choice to walk beside him freely or be thrown to the void, though Its hard to imagine she would support this choas..."

Hawke: Andraste wouldn't want her chantry to be tyranical surpressors, what we are doing is right...

Seb: You're right. I don't need you to remind me of such things... Andraste wouldn't want her templars to be tyranical and that we should show that the Chantry should be a kind mother. To victory my friend, by whatever means nessecary.. or.. if you romanced him "I never meet anyone like you.. I just wish.. nevermind. We can't afford such distractions now..."

Ahhh... Mixing Reasonablity with Faith... I dig that.. Because I am like that

[Rifneno]

thegrimfandango wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

After Anders confronts Merrill at your estate

When does this happen?

Likely referring to a scene where Anders and Merrill talk on the upper level of the Hawke estate if you're romaning Anders.  The conversation basically goes like this:  "We can't be talking to each other here!  There's a window right there!  Do you know what the templars would do if they found two apostates meeting in the champion's house?"  "No.  What?"  "OMG! *facepalm*"  Basically just more of the same.  Anders quaking about templars, Merrill redefining "naive" on a sentence-by-sentence basis.

rak72 wrote...
And, yes ... it is wrong for a man to hit a woman.  If she is beating on you, restrain her.  The damage a man can inflict with a blow is in no way comperable to what a woman can do.  If you are a man that hits a woman, then you are not a man.

So you think all members of a gender should be painted with the same brush?  One of us is a sexist here, and I'll give you a clue: it's not me.  Just because you don't know how to do any damage doesn't mean no other woman does.  There's a lot of women out there that could kick the ass of 90% of the men in a fair fight.  But equally as important, the whole "never hit women even if they're hitting you" mindset goes back to the days when women were thought of as inferior and should only be in the kitchen, the bedroom, or the delivery room.  So maybe you should take this up with the members of your own gender that thought it'd nice to be equals and not only "serve their man."  Because the two issues are intertwined.

MoMan313 wrote...

Relgious (Considering that I am religious)

There's more to faith than jamming it down the throats of everyone around you like Sebastian does.  Most religious folk just don't wear it on their sleeve in flashing lights.

Pure most of all PURE. damn, pure people are hard to find these days!

...  You... might not want to ask him about his past.  Just a head's up.  

[MoMan313]

@Rifneno

Eh.... He's pure NOW. I know about his past..but thats in..the past! =D

[rak72]

It's not being sexist, fool - it's a fact that woman do not posses the physical strength to do the damage a man can - unless your woman is a UFC fighter. Even a scrawny 115lb dude can break half the bones in a woman's face with a punch. A 115lb woman would barely leave a bruise. Why?? Is it because I'm sexist & declared it so?? NO, it's because *drum-roll* men & women are different. Men are made up of a higher % of muscle mass, while women are made up of a higher % of fat tissue. So next time your woman is beating on you, why don't you take the high road & walk away.

Modifié par rak72, 22 avril 2011 - 03:21 .

[nos_astra]

Rifneno wrote...
There's more to faith than jamming it down the throats of everyone around you like Sebastian does.  Most religious folk just don't wear it on their sleeve in flashing lights.

Today? No. But certainly has been done in history.

[LobselVith8]

MoMan313 wrote...

In the mage ending you can convince him that what you're doing is right, and he opens his mind up a bit ;D

Seb: "Its hard to look at all these apostates and not see Anders.. The maker says that we have a choice to walk beside him freely or be thrown to the void, though Its hard to imagine she would support this choas..."

Hawke: Andraste wouldn't want her chantry to be tyranical surpressors, what we are doing is right...

Seb: You're right. I don't need you to remind me of such things... Andraste wouldn't want her templars to be tyranical and that we should show that the Chantry should be a kind mother. To victory my friend, by whatever means nessecary.. or.. if you romanced him "I never meet anyone like you.. I just wish.. nevermind. We can't afford such distractions now..."

Ahhh... Mixing Reasonablity with Faith... I dig that.. Because I am like that

I remember seeing this scene, where Hawke persuades Sebastian that "Andraste wouldn't want her Chantry to be a prison and torture-chamber. We must reclaim her mercy." Evidently, Hawke is Andrastian, too (which was strongly implied from the scene with Merrill after Leandra died, I suppose). Considering Starkhaven traditionally had a Circle of Magi, and could again, siding with the heir of Starkhaven seems like a good idea to promote a better future for the mages of Starkhaven if Hawke is able to show Sebastian that what the templars are doing now isn't just.

[Rifneno]

rak72 wrote...

It's not being sexist, fool - it's a fact that woman do not posses the physical strength to do the damage a man can - unless your woman is a UFC fighter. Even a scrawny 115lb dude can break half the bones in a woman's face with a punch. A 115lb woman would barely leave a bruise. Why?? Is it because I'm sexist & declared it so?? NO, it's because *drum-roll* men & women are different. Men are made up of a higher % of muscle mass, while women are made up of a higher % of fat tissue. So next time your woman is beating on you, why don't you take the high road & walk away.

First of all, you're completely full of crap (in regards to the 115 thing).  Feel free to go down to one of those women's self defense classes and see if they can manage to give you a clue.  Second of all, if I start hitting a guy that's 7'0 and 350 lbs, my best hope isn't that he's going to realize "hey, I shouldn't hit someone that stands no chance against me, I should just let him continue pummeling me," my best hope is that my ambulance isn't going to go over a bumpy road.  And rightfully so.  If any intelligent adult hits someone, they should expect that person to hit them back.  so how about the next time you're thinking of committing domestic abuse because you think you're above the law, act like a mature adult and don't.

LobselVith8 wrote...

I remember seeing this scene, where Hawke persuades Sebastian that "Andraste wouldn't want her Chantry to be a prison and torture-chamber. We must reclaim her mercy." Evidently, Hawke is Andrastian, too (which was strongly implied from the scene with Merrill after Leandra died, I suppose). Considering Starkhaven traditionally had a Circle of Magi, and could again, siding with the heir of Starkhaven seems like a good idea to promote a better future for the mages of Starkhaven if Hawke is able to show Sebastian that what the templars are doing now isn't just.

Hmm.  Is it a diplomatic response?  It might just be good diplomacy, appealing to his religious side.  It might not necessarily mean Hawke is Andrastian.  I certainly hope not, it'd just be bad RP to automatically make the PC a follower of a specific religion, especially when that religion's ethics are heavily in question.

[rak72]

Rifneno wrote...

rak72 wrote...

It's not being sexist, fool - it's a fact that woman do not posses the physical strength to do the damage a man can - unless your woman is a UFC fighter. Even a scrawny 115lb dude can break half the bones in a woman's face with a punch. A 115lb woman would barely leave a bruise. Why?? Is it because I'm sexist & declared it so?? NO, it's because *drum-roll* men & women are different. Men are made up of a higher % of muscle mass, while women are made up of a higher % of fat tissue. So next time your woman is beating on you, why don't you take the high road & walk away.

First of all, you're completely full of crap (in regards to the 115 thing).  Feel free to go down to one of those women's self defense classes and see if they can manage to give you a clue.  Second of all, if I start hitting a guy that's 7'0 and 350 lbs, my best hope isn't that he's going to realize "hey, I shouldn't hit someone that stands no chance against me, I should just let him continue pummeling me," my best hope is that my ambulance isn't going to go over a bumpy road.  And rightfully so.  If any intelligent adult hits someone, they should expect that person to hit them back.  so how about the next time you're thinking of committing domestic abuse because you think you're above the law, act like a mature adult and don't.
.

I do take self defence classes, and I can tell you that when I am sparring  with a man, no matter what his size, he can overpower me.  The best I can hope for if I'm attacked on the streets is that the man is not knowlegable about   self defence & I'll be able to catch him off guard and slip away. If a 7' 350 lb male needs to prove his manliness by knocking out a 115lb chick, he is a pathetic looser.

[Wulfram]

Rifneno wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I remember seeing this scene, where Hawke persuades Sebastian that "Andraste wouldn't want her Chantry to be a prison and torture-chamber. We must reclaim her mercy." Evidently, Hawke is Andrastian, too (which was strongly implied from the scene with Merrill after Leandra died, I suppose). Considering Starkhaven traditionally had a Circle of Magi, and could again, siding with the heir of Starkhaven seems like a good idea to promote a better future for the mages of Starkhaven if Hawke is able to show Sebastian that what the templars are doing now isn't just.

Hmm.  Is it a diplomatic response?  It might just be good diplomacy, appealing to his religious side.  It might not necessarily mean Hawke is Andrastian.  I certainly hope not, it'd just be bad RP to automatically make the PC a follower of a specific religion, especially when that religion's ethics are heavily in question.

It's one of those responses with 3 curly arrows where the dominant tone decides precisely what Hawke says.  Snarky Hawke suggests Andraste would be "lighting fires and yelling 'freedom' with the rest of them".

Generally Hawke seems to be presented as an Andrastean - that was certainly how they were raised, and Bethany is very religious - but not necessarily a believing one.

[Riona45]

Wulfram wrote...
It's one of those responses with 3 curly arrows where the dominant tone decides precisely what Hawke says.  Snarky Hawke suggests Andraste would be "lighting fires and yelling 'freedom' with the rest of them".

Generally Hawke seems to be presented as an Andrastean - that was certainly how they were raised, and Bethany is very religious - but not necessarily a believing one.

Also, regardless of how religious Hawke actually is, Andraste did exist historically and there's no reason why Hawke couldn't comment on what Andraste might think, based on the fact that she was a freedom fighter.

[LobselVith8]

Wulfram wrote...

Generally Hawke seems to be presented as an Andrastean - that was certainly how they were raised, and Bethany is very religious - but not necessarily a believing one.

That's true, he is presented as Andrastian. Aside from the remark he makes to Grand Cleric Elthina in Act I (that provides Aveline with Friendship) where he states it wasn't the Maker that stopped the Blight, he generally gives Andrastian responses (to Merrill when she is comforting him after the death of Leandra, at least in the romance) and with Sebastian in the finale. I heard that he is supposed to actually scream out Andrastian praises in fighting (which caused someone to make a thread that asked whether Hawke was Andrastian), but there seems to be something preventing it on the consoles.