420 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Qunari mages ARE being trained. After they got defeated, they started to see how valuable mages are as a resource and have been training them since then.

proof? You can claim it, but I have seen nothing to suggest that the mages are being trained or are stronger than they were during the Exalted Marches against the Qunari.

I would also like to see this proof.

[KJandrew]

jamesp81 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Qunari mages ARE being trained. After they got defeated, they started to see how valuable mages are as a resource and have been training them since then.

proof? You can claim it, but I have seen nothing to suggest that the mages are being trained or are stronger than they were during the Exalted Marches against the Qunari.

I would also like to see this proof.

Emperor gave you proof on the last page but you just seem to have ignored it.

[jamesp81]

KJandrew wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Qunari mages ARE being trained. After they got defeated, they started to see how valuable mages are as a resource and have been training them since then.

proof? You can claim it, but I have seen nothing to suggest that the mages are being trained or are stronger than they were during the Exalted Marches against the Qunari.

I would also like to see this proof.

Emperor gave you proof on the last page but you just seem to have ignored it.

He made a claim and did not link to any codex entries to back it up.  This is not proof.

Until I see a link to a codex entry, it's his opinion and nothing more.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Oh but ffs.... History of Kirkwall part 3... read the entry...

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh but ffs.... History of Kirkwall part 3... read the entry...

Thats not proof. We only know that a bunch of saarebas can break down a wall.

[TheCreeper]

WillPF363 wrote...

Based on the mages in Dragon Age II, as much as I don't like it, siding with the Templars probably is the right thing to do. There are what, two mages in the entire game that aren't blood mages or abominations? I think Bethany and the drunken Orlesian guy are the only mages (with roles of any significance) that don't turn to forbidden magic at some point. That being said, I've only sided with the Templars in one game, I just can't bring myself to side with them. I thoroughly enjoy killing Anders though.

That actually has more to do with how freaking horrible a place kirkwall is even without the templars (seriously, everything in the codex makes it out like Kirkwall was built on top of the thedas equivalent of a thousand native american burial grounds and  quite possibly a small new england town in a Lovecraft story.) And the Tevinter's pushing money and blood mage into kirkwall's mage underground.  Also most of the background mages in the ending are not blood mages at all.

[EmperorSahlertz]

..."unprecedented display of sorcery"...

[Wulfram]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

..."unprecedented display of sorcery"...

Which happened during the Exalted Marches, so doesn't particularly suggest they've since improved.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It implies they improved DURING the Exalted Marches, since they were not even close to being able to tear down a city wall when the wars started. They are at least on par with a Circle mage now.

[TheJediSaint]

The Qunari have shown to be quite adept at mental conditioning. Since Magic is all about the mind, I suspect that Qunari brainwashing is also a good basis for training mages. So long as you don't mind your mages being little more than attack dogs.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It implies they improved DURING the Exalted Marches, since they were not even close to being able to tear down a city wall when the wars started. They are at least on par with a Circle mage now.

What your saying means jack ****. If the qunari had to strip every single saarebas from their armies to bring down those walls it may be "unprecedented"  but they are still inferior to circle mages. In fact that they could not duplicate this assault on starkhaven , which was their secondary goal, makes me believe that their was some significant amount of resources used up in kirkwall.

Military succes is measured in 2 things: achieving your goals, and resources used. And the qunari failed badly in this case.

[TheCreeper]

The saarebas struck me as more, unrefined then regular mages. They got a lot of raw power but they lack the training and the staffs to really do anything advanced.

[EmperorSahlertz]

... It would not have been an "unprecendeted display of sorcery" to gather an army of mutes and make them bring down the wall with bug bites.

Furthermore the Starkhaven assault EVENTUALLY failed, which means it was a drawn out conflict, however the Thedosian armies must've responded in time. And you don't even know if the Kirkwall attack was an experiment to test how well their Saarebas could act in war. Matter of fact is: The Qunari Saarebas are far more dangerous now, than they were when they first arrived.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

... It would not have been an "unprecendeted display of sorcery" to gather an army of mutes and make them bring down the wall with bug bites.

We dont know how strong kirkwalls defenses where at the time. Furthermore Unprecendented doesnt mean efficient.

Furthermore the Starkhaven assault EVENTUALLY failed, which means it was a drawn out conflict, however the Thedosian armies must've responded in time.

We dont know that. only that it failed and somehow they where not able to dublicate the results and the assault failed.

And you don't even know if the Kirkwall attack was an experiment to test how well their Saarebas could act in war. Matter of fact is: The Qunari Saarebas are far more dangerous now, than they were when they first arrived

Fact is that your making assumptions

.

[Urazz]

TheCreeper wrote...

The saarebas struck me as more, unrefined then regular mages. They got a lot of raw power but they lack the training and the staffs to really do anything advanced.

Exactly what I feel.  They certainly feel powerful, but they they really feel more limited in use compared to circle mages as in they probably aren't really taught much.

[Darth_Ravor]

wow.huge necromancy from my dead thread. anther reason for me to like mages!

[TheJediSaint]

Alistair4Ever wrote...

wow.huge necromancy from my dead thread. anther reason for me to like mages!

Well this is the purple/green fight of the Dragon Age community.

[Augustei]

jamesp81 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Templars... obviously.. From Tevinter anyway... The Qunari are superior, even with the Thedosian mages, so that is not even an issue..

Not according to Genitivi's codex about the New Exalted Marches, where he references the Circle mages as the "greatest advantage" of the Chantry led forces. He even addresses them being better than the Qunari mages, who he states were treated as little more than animals.

"The greatest advantage that the Chantry-led forces had against the Qunari was, in fact, the Circle of Magi. For all their technology, the Qunari appeared to harbor a great hatred for all things magical. They possessed mages, but these were little better than animals kept on leashes… and none of the Qunari mages possessed anywhere near the skill that the Circle’s mages had. Faced with cannons, the Chantry responded with lightning and balls of fire and it proved effective indeed."

Interesting.  Qunari technology is only successfully opposed by magic.  Thedas had better start treating its mages better, or learn to build bigger guns or the Qunari are going to steam roll next time.

Well The Dwarves have explosives now.. Thedas can just buy theirs. As for the mages being a great weapon... The Qunari seem to have learned from that and allow their mages better training for combat as seen in DA2 when one Serebaas is capable of taking on hawkes party... Not winning though, but Hawke has plot armor so..

Also Genetivi's codex stated that even when Thedas's armies started pushing them back they were seemingly unaffected by the casualties of their soldiers and really only by those of the local Rivaini's.. I dont think the mages are as great an advantage as made out to be.

[labargegrrrl]

replying on topic here and not to a particular post...

i just haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. don't get me wrong, i totally get it. being pro-mage doesn't make a girl anti-templar, no matter what's going down in the game. i can totally justify it in my head, even for a mage Hawke. but it just hasn't resonated with me. for me, it's not a question of right or wrong. part of what makes the whole thing such a mess (and makes all the fans just like, "FLAME ON!") is that they both have really good logical and moral justification for what they do in those moments before the final battle begins. so it just comes down to putting myself in that particular Hawke's shoes.

i have one Hawke who's a mercy chick. just can't condone condemning the innocent along with the guilty. which is what annulment does. even if it's to prevent innocents from dying down the line, it immediately wipes out all or most all mages in a Circle, innocence or guilt be d*@md. plus she's a mage, so... i imagine she feels some level of regret over the whole thing, but wouldn't change it. but that's hypothetical.

my rouge Hawke just thinks that the whole system is broken, period. she tried to stay out of the whole thing. and she's constantly annoyed when people can't just solve their own problems and just let her chill at home. but she's standing there staring at a Circle-Mage Bethany, so it's like...hmmm? yeah, that tips it to the mage end. (Of course, we know you get the option to spare her, but Hawke f*ing doesn't, so that's how I play it!)

i tried playing an anti-mage or even pro-templar Hawke, but it just doesn't sit well with me. i feel like too big a hypocrite. i'll get it done eventually, just to be an achievement ****, but to answer the main question, no, i don't feel like it's the right thing. feel being the operative word.

[Sinuphro]

Alistair4Ever wrote...

So i have a question. Has anyone at all played through DA2 and sided with the templars because they thought it was the right thing to do? I mean you are doing a good guy playthrough and you sided with the templars. i can't imagine that because i would only ever do that if i felt like being an ****. so anyone out there think that the templar path is morally right? of cource neither can truely be such but i see the mages as the lesser of 2 evils because well... take 1st enchanter. he was the biggest anti-blood magic mage there is and he was willing to make himself an abomonation just to kill templars. he would not have done that except in an absolute last resort. if the templars hadn't he would havebeen fine. in DA2 90% of the time, mages are forced to blood magic by the templars. if wouldn't squeeze the tube of tooth paste it wouldn't have gotten all over their hands. so, back to the question:  anyone out there think that the templar path is morally right?

the chantry order in kirkwall is filled with retards. I am surprised it took the mages a long time to revolt. Those mages must have been extremely patient.

[Bayz]

Circle Mages count with a whole chunk of the arcane knowledge collected by Tevinter, during it's height. The Qunari don't seem to have developed any kind of strong magical tradition (but we don't see any evidence that they have not either) but they use gunpowder apparently.

I am lead to believe that magic in Thedas is just more advanced while the Qunari have more advanced technology, therefore for "unprecedented" the Qunari mages may get, I doubt quinari mages could do the same degree of destruction Circle\\Thedan mages could...