22 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

I was friendly with Aveline, friendly enough that she went with me when I sided with the Mages.

She specifically mentioned that her husband had the Guard guarding the Viscount's palace, so they wouldn't be a problem.

But when I get to the courtyard, here comes Fenris walking in . . . .with a pack of City Guards.

What gives?

[Vandicus]

Glitch? With Aveline and Fenris on my side it doesn't happen, check if someone else has it happen with Avenline on their side and Fenris against.

[Eumerin]

Happened to me.  Avelline wasn't in my party at the time, but she was supporting me.  Fenris was in the first group of guards, and the second group was just guards.

[Lekwid]

Same exact thing. Didn't use Fenris in my game so he bailed when I sided with the mages. Aveline was my good buddy so she stayed and said Donnic had the guard busy so we wouldn't fight them. But then Fenris shows up with guards and I just steamroll him.

Still, I thought the guards weren't supposed to come...

[TJPags]

I'm assuming not a glitch, then.

Now, can anyone explain to us how this makes sense?

Or was it just laziness in making enemies?

[Piecake]

I don't think I fought any city guards. Believe they were all templars and demons

[PirateT138]

Fenris comes with guards, dunno, it's silly but that's that.

Stupid elf. Smashed his skull good.

[Eumerin]

TJPags wrote...

I'm assuming not a glitch, then.

Now, can anyone explain to us how this makes sense?

Or was it just laziness in making enemies?

It would have been easy enough (and perhaps more appropriate) to have Fenris escorted by Templar, imo.  I think we can chalk it up to not all of the guard following orders.  Some of them likely supported the purge and end up joining with Fenris.

[UNOSHI]

uhm.. u guys mean templers right? cuz when i sided with mages. Aveline said i say what ur trying to do here. im sticking with you till the end. then when merredith comes with her Templer and Fenris. i convinced him to join my team. only thing that attacked me during the battle were templers. blood mages and Orison...damn lunatic.

[TJPags]

UNOSHI wrote...

uhm.. u guys mean templers right? cuz when i sided with mages. Aveline said i say what ur trying to do here. im sticking with you till the end. then when merredith comes with her Templer and Fenris. i convinced him to join my team. only thing that attacked me during the battle were templers. blood mages and Orison...damn lunatic.

No, I mean City Guards.

Fenris came walking into the courtyard escorted by a bunch of people labelled as City Guard. 

I got the same Aveline conversation you did.  Fenris was at full rivalry, went with Meredith, I couldn't talk him down.  I expect to see him again . . . and would have made sense if he was with Templars.

But it was City Guard.

[UNOSHI]

TJPags wrote...

UNOSHI wrote...

uhm.. u guys mean templers right? cuz when i sided with mages. Aveline said i say what ur trying to do here. im sticking with you till the end. then when merredith comes with her Templer and Fenris. i convinced him to join my team. only thing that attacked me during the battle were templers. blood mages and Orison...damn lunatic.

No, I mean City Guards.

Fenris came walking into the courtyard escorted by a bunch of people labelled as City Guard. 

I got the same Aveline conversation you did.  Fenris was at full rivalry, went with Meredith, I couldn't talk him down.  I expect to see him again . . . and would have made sense if he was with Templars.

But it was City Guard.

I asume a glitch then. mine relations ship with Aveline is maxed out. Fenris. some where balanced.  Maybe its cuz hes rivalry he took over the gaurds.. i think... i doubt it tho. only thing rivalry could do is, stoping him from joining you.

besides i find the friend/rivarly thing bit dull. some love u when they hate u... and vise versa....

[xdaimyox]

If you listened to the convo, Fenris explicitly states that he convinced that particular group of guardsmen to back him up against you. In his own snotty way, he can't help but show you that not only are you wrong in his eyes, but that he can convince even your own trusted guardsmen to turn on you because of it. Not a glitch as far as I can tell.

[TJPags]

xdaimyox wrote...

If you listened to the convo, Fenris explicitly states that he convinced that particular group of guardsmen to back him up against you. In his own snotty way, he can't help but show you that not only are you wrong in his eyes, but that he can convince even your own trusted guardsmen to turn on you because of it. Not a glitch as far as I can tell.

I didn't catch that . . . interesting . . . .

[ArawnNox]

TJPags wrote...

xdaimyox wrote...

If you listened to the convo, Fenris explicitly states that he convinced that particular group of guardsmen to back him up against you. In his own snotty way, he can't help but show you that not only are you wrong in his eyes, but that he can convince even your own trusted guardsmen to turn on you because of it. Not a glitch as far as I can tell.

I didn't catch that . . . interesting . . . .

Didn't catch that either. Still, I didn't and still don't like Fenris. I took great pleasure in smearing him all over the couryard.

NPCs have surprised me before, when delving deeper into the, (read: Zevran), so, for the sake of fairness, I'll be trying harder to get to know him in my next play through.

[Oneiropolos]

Again, I really think people saying Fenris is snotty/emo just never gave him a chance in their groups. It's like generalizing Aveline down to Better-than-thou or Varric as greedy. I can't imagine anyone who's actually heard Fenris and Varric banter, some of the best dialogue in the game, could view him as emo or brooding. There's whole banters about whether he's brooding or not, and his trying to convince Aveline for favors is hilarious too. Yes, he takes a hard line when it comes to mages. Except he DOES make an exception for Bethany, saying she was strong. His entire life has been screwed over by mages. There's a reason he doesn't trust them. Fenris doesn't go terrorist on the mage circle, he just has his own personal opinions on it. People see elves and think others only like them because they're good looking elves. I like Fenris because he's intelligent, he may snap but he apologizes for it, and he's really quite crafty. His knowledge of the Qun can lead to some pretty interesting scenes. I love a character who can outsmart another character in wordplay.

[xdaimyox]

Fenris is a total douche, and 1shotting him on my rogue was the greatest pleasure I took in the game's finale. On the whole the writing for the party banter is good, and generally I feel that ANY banter involving Varric is excellent (PROPS to bioware for him, definitely my fav. companion). That said, If you leave Fenris to his own devices (ie, allow him to act instead of interfering) he murders his own sister in cold blood. No respect for him from me. Oh and let's not even mention that he thinks slippery-slope slavery prospects sometime in the vague ambiguous future is worse than responding to an act of terrorism by commiting geonicide in the here-and-now-concrete present.

ArawnNox, I took the time on my more recent playthrough of DAO+A to give Zevran a bit of leeway, and while I wasn't surprised per se, he became more tolerable to me. I'm not sure that Fenris will ever get that out of me however. It was easier for me to deal with Morrigan than it was Fenris, tbh, and I feel that's saying something; she has her own meme.

Still, I helpped Fenris secure the first peace he's seen in his life- over 6 years with minimal contact from his old life in Tevinter, I saved his life and tied up his own loose ends for him (which he was apparently unable or unwilling to do himself). He pays me back by Emoing out in the bottom of the 9th inning. He watched me single handedly dispatch the Arishok and spent the third act watching me drop 7k assassinates(seriously bioware? o.0), and still thought it wise to turn on me. Good riddance.

[Maria Caliban]

Oneiropolos wrote...

I can't imagine anyone who's actually heard Fenris and Varric banter, some of the best dialogue in the game, could view him as emo or brooding. There's whole banters about whether he's brooding or not...

No, there are no banters as to whether he's brooding or not. There are banters commenting on how broody he is.

The companions call him broody, the writer calls him broody, and throughout the game he sits in an abandoned manner brooding on the past.

Sorry, but this is like someone attempting to argue that Isabela doesn't sleep around.

[xdaimyox]

On that note, walking in on Isabela looking for STD cures from Anders... priceless.

[scomoletti]

The only thing that disappointed me was how easily Fenris dies when he and the guards confront you. Single backstab and he was done. So very anti-climactic.

[TJPags]

xdaimyox wrote...

On that note, walking in on Isabela looking for STD cures from Anders... priceless.

THAT was absolutely HYSTERICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oneiropolos]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Oneiropolos wrote...

I can't imagine anyone who's actually heard Fenris and Varric banter, some of the best dialogue in the game, could view him as emo or brooding. There's whole banters about whether he's brooding or not...

No, there are no banters as to whether he's brooding or not. There are banters commenting on how broody he is.

The companions call him broody, the writer calls him broody, and throughout the game he sits in an abandoned manner brooding on the past.

Sorry, but this is like someone attempting to argue that Isabela doesn't sleep around.

I was referring to Varric telling him he's brooding and him retorting back that he's not brooding. And Varric's being thrilled when Fenris makes a joke about dancing in the mansion. I should have probably clarified it as ONLY brooding. Isabella sleeps around, but that's not ALL she is. I don't even care for her, but I wouldn't make that assertion. I'm sure if I TRIED to understand her better, and spend more time around her, I'd find she had more redeemable qualities. And she is pretty amusing in things she said when I did have her along.  I just don't understand this impulse by people to automatically write Fenris off. None of the companions in Dragon Age (either game) are JUST what they appear at first. Even Sten, who probably gets the least development, isn't JUST stoic. I mean, the guy likes cookies. Unlike the original Dragon Age, you couldn't just keep talking to someone in camp to learn more about them, so my point was just that before you write off a character, you do have to give them a chance in party banter to actually show who they are.

As far as killing his sister? He barely remembered her, but he was HAPPY to meet her.... until he found out she not only alerted his previous master but she was doing it so she could BECOME A MAGISTER HERSELF. When you tell him not to kill her, he retorts, "Why? She was going to stand there and watch me be killed!" Then you find out in the past, Fenris even fought for the chance to get the tattoos because there was a monetary reward for it...he used that reward to free his mother and his sister. So he obviously did love both of them. His sister says he got the better deal of it as she walks out. I'm not saying killing your sibling is A-OK, but finding out your sibling betrayed you and was going to watch you die all so she could become a the assistant to your old master and gain power? And what power it is... Fenris comments at one point to Sebastian that he watched Denarius kill a young boy at a party just to amuse the other magisters with the magic from his blood...he wanted to know what the point in that was. Sebastian suggests that perhaps the point was in letting Fenris witness it so he could prevent it from happening again. Varric was going to kill his brother too unless you prodded him not to, and I don't see everyone going "And Varric's fratricidal!" Why? Because his brother betrayed him first? So did Fenris's sister. If you won't condemn  Varric for his feelings, you can't condemn Fenris for his. In fact, if you have Varric with you for that scene with Fenris's sister and tell him not to do it, Varric even speaks up and says that he knows it's hard to believe right now, "but elf... I mean Fenris... you really don't want to do this." I liked the scene for Varric's input, the fact that Varric is really the only one out of the party that TRULY understands Fenris's turmoil, and thought it was just a really nice touch by the writers. 

And yes, Varric manages to humanize any character you stick in a party with him. I really didn't expect to like him as much as I do. I've always been kinda "Eh..." about DA's dwarves. But Varric completely won me over.

[xdaimyox]

I think the best thing i can take from your reply is that regardless of certain 'railroading' incidents, Bioware is getting better and better at letting each individual player get precisely what they need/want out of specific characters by shaping their behavior more closely around the player's actions and opinions.

[Oneiropolos]

That may be. There's a favorite character for everyone, and a favorite party makeup. I really don't like the characters of Merrill or Isabella, but I admit I don't play much with them so I haven't gotten to hear their banter. That's one problem with Isabella leaving...as a melee rogue, I rarely needed another melee person with me besides a tank, so there was just no point for me to have Isabella. Maybe when I try a mage or warrior, I might have to give Isabella a chance. I won't rule her out until I've actually had a game where I'm beside her enough to really decide I don't like her. It does frustrate me that most of the characterization really is hidden in the banter in this game. I'm thinking, "What if Isabella has a secretly awesome personality and I didn't know because in my two playthroughs, I just let her leave and never went on quests with her?"

It also seems like too much is placed in 'romance' scenes that you have to wait around for or hope for instead of being able to find out things because you're best buds with them. Which makes me sad because I never romanced Morrigan because I was a female in the first game, but my warden considered her like a sister just from the conversations.