78 réponses à ce sujet

[Purgatious]

DaewaNya wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I'm a Cinematic Designer. Which means I'm one of the guys who takes the written dialogue, then adds cameras, animations, faceFX and VFX to make it more visually interesting.

So when it comes to animations and how they're used, I speak from experience!

I wish you could make Kojima style cinematics seriously (<= me wishing very hard)

They wish they could to, but alas fair maiden.

[Dansayshi]

While I have no qualms of recycling various models / animations / sounds etc, I do hate it when its EVERYWHERE, with a small injection of "new".

[CubbieBlue66]

JohnEpler wrote...

Each project has its own motion capture and animation budget, and there comes a point where you make the decision between 'do we get a bunch of new generic animations?' or 'do we use custom animations for the high-impact scenes?' Sure, we could have gotten new drinking animations, but that would've involved losing assets elsewhere for what may have amounted to a slightly different 'here's a drink, now pretend you're drinking from it' animation.

That's not to say that we don't want to try and use new assets where we can. Evaluating and planning replacements for the 'old' animations that either A) look less than spectacular or have been used to death is an ongoing process.

But when the choice comes between 'make this emotional moment work by using a custom animation for its participants' or 'make it so when your character has a drink at the bar, it looks nothing like Mass Effect 2', I tend to fall pretty heavily on the side of the emotional moment.

EDIT: I should mention - there are animations from Jade Empire in ME. There are animations from ME and DA:O in ME2. Our animation library is shared across all projects, and when a cinematic designer says 'that looks like it does exactly what I need', it gets ported over.

That's very interesting. I always love hearing about the process...

I was wondering if you could provide us with a few other specific examples? 

[Mx_CN3]

JohnEpler wrote...

I'm a Cinematic Designer. Which means I'm one of the guys who takes the written dialogue, then adds cameras, animations, faceFX and VFX to make it more visually interesting.

So when it comes to animations and how they're used, I speak from experience!

I know this will sound like I'm sucking up but... well done.  Seriously, DA2 had some very good cutscene design, probably the best I've ever seen.  Also, I too, want your job.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Koreos wrote...

My female Hawke pees in the same position as my female Shepard... unacceptable!

BioWare needs to return to the epic, tactical urination of Buldar's Gate.

I only say this because I actually mean it: lol.

Modifié par Mx_CN3, 16 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[Muertos13]

For everyone saying Bioware is being lazy, why would you NOT reuse a 'take a drink at a bar' animation if you've already got one in-house? It's not like it's a crappy animation.

[Dansayshi]

Muertos13 wrote...

For everyone saying Bioware is being lazy, why would you NOT reuse a 'take a drink at a bar' animation if you've already got one in-house? It's not like it's a crappy animation.

Thats not the issue, the cutscenes are mostly quality. With very few glaring animation problems. What really is the problem, is that a fairly large chunk of this game seems to of used copy and paste.

[tommysollen]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Hey, it's the Dragon Effect! You might also see the geth pop up! There are easter eggs EVERYWHERE in this game!!

Dragon Effect!!!! HAHAHahah *ROFL* god that cracked me up!:lol:

[Rheia]

Heh. Guys, seriously. Of all things to complain about...

I recognized the animation, and a handful of others from previous games. If the shoe fits there is no darn reason not to wear it.

On the subject of easter eggs, there is a person who complains about how everything is becoming simpler, eating, drinking, fighting. I think I remember this guy from other games talking about same thing. I laughted I think it was a subtle jab at all the people who complain about oversimplification of 'important' things

[Lotion Soronarr]

Hunter Stenwulf wrote...

For everyone saying that BioWare is being lazy, you all need to remember that EA rushed them to put out DA2 faster. Who's to say they would have cut any corners if they had more time to make this game?

True...But they did.
Do the reasons really matter? EA pressure, bad call from above, lazyness ... whatever the reason, the game was rushed.

[Suron]

JohnEpler wrote...

DinoCrisisFan wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

CLime wrote...

Hell, I was ready to give Bioware credit for a sly shout-out to Mass Effect when I first noticed this, but don't let me stop you from taking all the fun out of it.

Well, the scene itself was supposed to be a shout out. Just not the animation, necessarily. Though I don't think it's used elsewhere, so I'll stop ruining it for you

Do you work for BioWare? Or are you a volunteer moderator?

I'm a Cinematic Designer. Which means I'm one of the guys who takes the written dialogue, then adds cameras, animations, faceFX and VFX to make it more visually interesting.

So when it comes to animations and how they're used, I speak from experience!

wow, hard job when a lot of it is just ported from work already done :innocent:

face is we were criticized by BioWare to "wait and see" amongst all the "don't turn Dragon Age into Dragon Effect" threads and worry.  Then we get DA2 and..guess what....dialogue wheel (at least it has SOME differences, if very few) but then blatant copy/pasted animations out of ME2.  Again, musta been a cake job.

[mtpatterson13]

Suron wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

DinoCrisisFan wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

CLime wrote...

Hell, I was ready to give Bioware credit for a sly shout-out to Mass Effect when I first noticed this, but don't let me stop you from taking all the fun out of it.

Well, the scene itself was supposed to be a shout out. Just not the animation, necessarily. Though I don't think it's used elsewhere, so I'll stop ruining it for you

Do you work for BioWare? Or are you a volunteer moderator?

I'm a Cinematic Designer. Which means I'm one of the guys who takes the written dialogue, then adds cameras, animations, faceFX and VFX to make it more visually interesting.

So when it comes to animations and how they're used, I speak from experience!

wow, hard job when a lot of it is just ported from work already done :innocent:

face is we were criticized by BioWare to "wait and see" amongst all the "don't turn Dragon Age into Dragon Effect" threads and worry.  Then we get DA2 and..guess what....dialogue wheel (at least it has SOME differences, if very few) but then blatant copy/pasted animations out of ME2.  Again, musta been a cake job.

I don't think these are legitimate complaints. I don't mean to offend, but it's not bordering, but well into the realm of nitpicking. I understand the reused dungeons, I understand the combat complaints, but the only way I can understand this complaint is if I take the perspective of someone who already thinks that Bioware is lazy and I'm looking for more excuses to show it.

The fact of the matter is this is a widely used practice in the gaming industry and for good reason, it saves times and resources so they could be used somewhere else. Yes, Dragon Age II isn't a fantastic game, but if they had spent more time making new animations on everything, the game would be a bunch of people standing in a room and you can watch them go through the fantastic animations. (Probably not true, but I hope you get my meaning that the quality of the game would be even less).<3

[Cobrawar]

Hunter Stenwulf wrote...

For everyone saying that BioWare is being lazy, you all need to remember that EA rushed them to put out DA2 faster. Who's to say they would have cut any corners if they had more time to make this game?

This is where I would place the burden of the blame on. Some greedy EA suit.

[Eternal Phoenix]

I like DA2 but DA2 is Mass Effect 2. They just modded the game, sometimes the code breaks up and you see Shepherd sprinting across Kirkwall after the Geth.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 16 mars 2011 - 02:32 .

[Kilshrek]

Uh, don't the conversation animations use the Mass Effect 'skeletons'? I notice the "I'm talking to you finger point" every now and then. That featured heavily in ME 1, if I recall.

On a similar topic, does anyone notice the shades bearing an uncanny resemblance to the geth? At least with the heads. That glowy eye...

Modifié par Kilshrek, 16 mars 2011 - 02:48 .

[John Epler]

Suron wrote...

wow, hard job when a lot of it is just ported from work already done :innocent:

face is we were criticized by BioWare to "wait and see" amongst all the "don't turn Dragon Age into Dragon Effect" threads and worry.  Then we get DA2 and..guess what....dialogue wheel (at least it has SOME differences, if very few) but then blatant copy/pasted animations out of ME2.  Again, musta been a cake job.

Actually, the animations being reused or not has absolutely zero impact on how much work Cinematic Design has to do. The job has everything to do with when and where animations are used, as well as what's being done with cameras, with VFX, the whole lot.

What resources are available only determines what sorts of things we can use in our scenes. It doesn't make it easier or faster to put scenes together - it merely dictates what those scenes can look like. If anything, a larger library of animations would make my job a little faster because I wouldn't have to try and combine three seemingly separate animations to get a particular effect - I could just use the 'guy puts hands on friend's shoulder' animation, rather than clipping a half dozen frames from the '2arm_arms_open' animation and looping them.

[Coldest]

What about the same cave used over and over again until it completely kills immersion. The "sewers" in darktown that looks exactly like the warehouse in lowtown - dry and not even remotely looking like a sewer? Any excuse for that?

[augustburnt]

Am I the only person that's not impressed by the fact that they used the same animation from ME2 liked they reuse maps in this game?

[ACDimps]

my one problem with the animations in convos is that they are so stiff. Bioware, WHY did you make all the characters in convos look like they have sticks up their bums?

Look at that machinma video posted yesterday on the forum. or look at this-

there's more life and movement here in an older game. In DA2 all we see are shots from the characters' waists-up (hardly any shots of their hands...maybe cause the models are bad...)

I dunno. No offense, just trying to give some constructive critique on how you can make the cutscenes more dynamic...

Modifié par ACDimps, 16 mars 2011 - 03:17 .

[nijnij]

Back to Easter Eggs, there's a portrait of Oghren in the Hanged Man, don't think that's been said ! I'm too tired to upload my screenshot but it's this concept art :

Modifié par nijnij, 17 mars 2011 - 03:53 .

[ladydea]

Sen4lifE wrote...

The drinking animation works.  Why fix something that's not broken.

I hated the drinking animation in ME2 and I hate it in DA2.

I guess it suited Shepard, in a way, for the male version at least. I have only played as the female Shepard and always thought it looked ridiculous on her, a marine! For lady Hawke it looks even more ridiculous!

Modifié par ladydea, 17 mars 2011 - 03:16 .

[Romantiq]

I don't mind the animations at all. Now if there was a dancing Shepard animation then thats a whole other story..

[DaewaNya]

ACDimps wrote...

my one problem with the animations in convos is that they are so stiff. Bioware, WHY did you make all the characters in convos look like they have sticks up their bums?

Look at that machinma video posted yesterday on the forum. or look at this-

there's more life and movement here in an older game. In DA2 all we see are shots from the characters' waists-up (hardly any shots of their hands...maybe cause the models are bad...)

I dunno. No offense, just trying to give some constructive critique on how you can make the cutscenes more dynamic...

This statement should really be taken into account Bioware. I feel the same way. I can say Bioware games are the worst at dialogue cinematics, it breaks my heart but I can't say otherwise.

Modifié par DaewaNya, 19 mars 2011 - 06:32 .

[littlebopeepster]

huh.. i was wondering what that drinking thing was about. i thought if i drank enough i'd black out and end up in a field like in grand theft auto. aw, bad bioware. and for those who hate that animation.. don't click on it. it's really easy if you have it on ps3. takes about 5 different character alignments to get a freaking codex. is that a shout out to ME2 too?

[JadeDragonEffect]

You guys are talking about DA2 borrowing ME2's animations, while I sometimes thought it was using NWN2's music. That's a game Bioware didn't even make! haha

[Babli]

Its funny, many times in game when I saw some animation I could remember some scene from ME 1 or 2 that used exact same animation. It was a little bit weird. But thats not the biggest problem of a game.

Sen4lifE wrote...

The drinking animation works.  Why fix something that's not broken.

Oh.. the irony.

Modifié par Babli, 19 mars 2011 - 03:07 .