126 réponses à ce sujet

[Quilver]

What do you guys think about this? It annoys me. I think it's rotten. Servers will use some sort of trick to make it look like they are more populated than they are. The annoying thing is that it probably works, to some extent, because people do sort the servers by Players. It's just cheating, and unfair.

I think the least we can do is name and shame those servers. So, here are two that I know of... Two servers which you should never take seriously, because they have to use dirty tricks to boost their image:

Sinfar, in Social. It seems to be a constant 22 added to their player count. So, if it says 38 people are on, that means 16 are on.

Heart of Winter, in Action. It seems to be about 12 added to their player count. So, if it says 30 people are on, that means 18 are on.

There was another Action server called Land of Chaos, which really took the biscuit. When it had 10 players on, it would show a figure of about 60.

We like to moan about griefers. Well, at least (most) griefers (sometimes) give us something to do. These weaselly servers are just bad for the whole NWN community.

Modifié par Quilver, 14 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[Eradrain]

I'm reporting this thread. I've never played on any of those servers, but if you think that naming and shaming on a forum is a good idea in any circumstance, you probably deserve a ban.

[Quilver]

Ugh. You didn't understand? These are publically viewable. They inflate their player count in Gamespy. I am not posting anything 'secret'. I'm bringing these abusers to wider attention, so that we know to avoid them.

They are basically spitting on all those dedicated, hard-working admins who advertise their server the right way.

[Totems and Teaparties]

Off topic: Come on Merselpath, you can be more subtle than this

On topic:
I actually don't care either way. If they're trying to hide their actual PC count, anyone is capable of logging on (or even just connecting and checking out the player list) and doing the math for themselves. It seems like a silly tatic, mostly because I've found people actually intimated away by 50+ people.

[Quilver]

Totems and Teaparties wrote...

Off topic: Come on Merselpath, you can be more subtle than this

Can you say 'paranoid'? Since you've accused me of being someone I'm not, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you're the same person as Eradrain.

I actually don't care either way. If they're trying to hide their actual PC count, anyone is capable of logging on (or even just connecting and checking out the player list) and doing the math for themselves. It seems like a silly tatic, mostly because I've found people actually intimated away by 50+ people.

On a serious note, small-scale anecdotal evidence != Wide-scale Proof.

In other words, you might meet the odd person who is 'intimiated away' by 50+ people, but you will find many, many more people who are attracted to the high player count.

The point is, it gets their server up there. It makes you click on it, and many new players don't bother to check how many people are on the actual playerlist. It hooked me in once, on Land of Chaos. I saw the player count of 60, thought 'Popular server, should try this'. I log on, and it's only when I'm in game that I realise that only 10 people are actually on. Also, people might think that it's possible to hide players, and that there actually are 60 people on, but it's just the 10 that are 'visible'.

There's no doubt that this trick, to some extent, works. It especially seems to work in Action, where players are perhaps less careful and more quick-and-eager.

It's sneaky, it's false and it's dishonourable. You don't have to agree with me.

[TSMDude]

Just a bit on this guys and gals,
The PW named Sinfair got the NWN Griefers forum shut down the first time. I am thinking this is a lash out more than anything else as Sinfair has never been known to do anything like stated.

[SHOVA]

Off Topic: In my opinion, airing dirty laundry on these forums, does nothing to the reputation of the one pointing the laundry out. My advice, if you have problem with a person, tell that person in private. Luckily for you, these forums have the ability to send others private messages. If you have a problem with a server/PW tell them on thier forums, as that is where they will most likely see it, an can address it. Otherwise you come across as someone who only wishes to chest thump how everyone else is lower than you.

On topic, if a PW inflates its player count, who cares, its their PW, they made it, they have the right, to add any amount of content, even fake players to it. Does it keep anyone from logging in that wants to be there? If it does isn't that the problem of the PW? Why whine, yes, WHINE is a good word for this, why whine about it? Must you have a accurate player count to have a good time? Does the accurate player count, or inaccurate player count change the game at all? If it does, then lucky for you, there are other servers available that you can join. Who are you to tell someone how to run their server? Did you spend the hours making it? Are you paying for the power, internet conection, or machine that is hosting it? Do you help maintain it? It sounds to me as if all you are doing is complaining that someones server isn't being run the way you think it should, to which I say, to bad for you, good luck with that.

[lordofworms]

lol, if I could do it I would and I don't consider myself a 'bad' person...
but I agree, some (many) go by players, and if your a PW hurtin to just see ONE player , well yeah I would script in a way to have someone look logged in.
when I first started my PW (wow a year ago??) and launched it I watched dutifully for WEEEEEKs to not see a single person sign in...*sigh*
so I used one of my old accounts (I love NWN so of course I have like 6 copies) and logged in as some bloke...
an hour later someone logs in, and hour after that 2...
now that I have regulars I am happy that I am building not just for me but for 'someone' out there...
but sometimes things like this are just a means to an end...
or as you point out, maybe its just their way of looking 'busy' but I still have my faithfuls so honestly what does it matter that a server has 'ghosts' running about.
noone can make you 'love' a PW simply with high player counts.

[Khuzadrepa]

Quilver wrote...
We like to moan about griefers. Well, at least (most) griefers (sometimes) give us something to do. These weaselly servers are just bad for the whole NWN community.

I have to respectfully disagree with your line of thinking here.

Griefers actively try to ruin the enjoyment of other players and DMs.  They don't give 'something to do' that's enjoyable, productive, or worthwhile.  How can an inflated player count be worse than that? It's not hurting my experience at all if I log into a server with no one else on.  I mean, if other people are on, then it can be a better experience, but it's not hurting me.

I don't see how it's anywhere close to being as harmful to the community as griefers are.

[TSMDude]

lordofworms wrote...

lol, if I could do it I would and I don't consider myself a 'bad' person...
but I agree, some (many) go by players, and if your a PW hurtin to just see ONE player , well yeah I would script in a way to have someone look logged in.
when I first started my PW (wow a year ago??) and launched it I watched dutifully for WEEEEEKs to not see a single person sign in...*sigh*
so I used one of my old accounts (I love NWN so of course I have like 6 copies) and logged in as some bloke...
an hour later someone logs in, and hour after that 2...
now that I have regulars I am happy that I am building not just for me but for 'someone' out there...
but sometimes things like this are just a means to an end...
or as you point out, maybe its just their way of looking 'busy' but I still have my faithfuls so honestly what does it matter that a server has 'ghosts' running about.
noone can make you 'love' a PW simply with high player counts.

Have to say when a  pillar of the community has problems getting players right off the bat that sure as heck makes me feel better about sitting there with the lappy open and logged in praying for players. Those first few months were dark indeed and I think everyone goes through them that first three months were it seems you did everything for naught.

[Totems and Teaparties]

I think any worry that inflated counts 'trick' people is silly. You'll log on and see the truth, and if the tactic bothers you, you won't play there. I can think of tons of small servers I wish saw more traffic, but I don't think they'd magically grow just because their game spy listing said they had 30 people. Though I checked the counts of the servers listed, and didn't actually see the inflated counts. Perhaps it's a gamespy error?

[Bosgald]

Er, who cares?

Modifié par Bosgald, 14 mars 2011 - 09:36 .

[Quilver]

TSMDude wrote...

Just a bit on this guys and gals,
The PW named Sinfair got the NWN Griefers forum shut down the first time. I am thinking this is a lash out more than anything else as Sinfair has never been known to do anything like stated.

Can't comment, because I don't know anything about that situation. But, I hope you're not suggesting that Sinfar don't inflate their player count, because that would be false. Look at it for yourself.. They've been doing it for around 6 months.

SHOVA wrote...

Off Topic: In my opinion, airing dirty laundry on these forums, does nothing to the reputation of the one pointing the laundry out. My advice, if you have problem with a person, tell that person in private. Luckily for you, these forums have the ability to send others private messages. If you have a problem with a server/PW tell them on thier forums, as that is where they will most likely see it, an can address it. Otherwise you come across as someone who only wishes to chest thump how everyone else is lower than you.

Agree with the first bit, but the latter part sounds reactionary and bigoted.

On topic, if a PW inflates its player count, who cares, its their PW, they made it, they have the right, to add any amount of content, even fake players to it. Does it keep anyone from logging in that wants to be there? If it does isn't that the problem of the PW? Why whine, yes, WHINE is a good word for this, why whine about it? Must you have a accurate player count to have a good time? Does the accurate player count, or inaccurate player count change the game at all? If it does, then lucky for you, there are other servers available that you can join. Who are you to tell someone how to run their server? Did you spend the hours making it? Are you paying for the power, internet conection, or machine that is hosting it? Do you help maintain it? It sounds to me as if all you are doing is complaining that someones server isn't being run the way you think it should, to which I say, to bad for you, good luck with that.

Thanks for sharing your morals with us. You think everyone has the right to cheat? Perhaps, but does that make it any less bad?

Should criminals be allowed to get away with their crimes?

Whether or not they have a 'right' to do it, that's moot to this particular argument. Any person has the right to perform any action. Some actions are immoral, and against the community. This is one of them.

I think any worry that inflated counts 'trick' people is silly. You'll log on and see the truth, and if the tactic bothers you, you won't play there. I can think of tons of small servers I wish saw more traffic, but I don't think they'd magically grow just because their game spy listing said they had 30 people. Though I checked the counts of the servers listed, and didn't actually see the inflated counts. Perhaps it's a gamespy error?

I just checked and they're still doing it. Sinfar has been doing it for 6 months. HoW, at least 2 months. Perhaps it's an error on your behalf, but many people on Sinfar - developers, players - actually complain about it, because it's dishonest.

It's false advertising, simple as. Such actions are seen as immoral by the law. Why not set an example in the gameworld, instead of trying to be dishonest for one's own gain?

Modifié par Quilver, 14 mars 2011 - 09:41 .

[A_Julian]

I'm generally not into 'naming and shaming', but this does bother me too. I play on Savage Eden, in Social. We get around 8-12 players on most evenings - a similar level to Sinfar's. But they -appear- way more popular than us, because their player count reads as 36 when they have 12 players on.

I don't think it even necessarily works, because most NWN players aren't fools. It's just annoying, and dumb, and cheaty.

[Quilver]

Griefers actively try to ruin the enjoyment of other players and DMs.  They don't give 'something to do' that's enjoyable, productive, or worthwhile.  How can an inflated player count be worse than that? It's not hurting my experience at all if I log into a server with no one else on.  I mean, if other people are on, then it can be a better experience, but it's not hurting me.

I don't see how it's anywhere close to being as harmful to the community as griefers are.

Well, they're different things, clearly. Yes, griefers often do intentionally try to annoy people, and that can only be condemned. However, sometimes unintentionally, they give us something to do. Example:

http://arelith.com/node/3789

I was one of the victims of this incident. I didn't even make that thread, but I agree with it. It did give us something to do.

That said, you're trying to directly compare the actual specifics of griefing with inflating player counts, when they're massively different things.

In short: Griefers harm individual players. Please note that I said they sometimes give us something to do - certainly not all the time. Server admins who inflate their player count have a negative effect on the whole community. It's not the players they hurt. In fact, your point is invalid anyway, because it's not the 'having little players' that is bad. It's the lying that is bad. If there is an effect on players, it's small, but it's mainly the effect it has on the community. I run a server myself and I know how hard it is to attract players. You sit there, with 0 players on, and just hope that someone could log in. When someone starts artificially inflating the player count on their server, that's arrogant and basically stomps on all the honest server owners who do it the hard way.

Modifié par Quilver, 15 mars 2011 - 12:27 .

[A_Julian]

Khuzadrepa wrote...

I have to respectfully disagree with your line of thinking here.

Griefers actively try to ruin the enjoyment of other players and DMs. They don't give 'something to do' that's enjoyable, productive, or worthwhile. How can an inflated player count be worse than that? It's not hurting my experience at all if I log into a server with no one else on. I mean, if other people are on, then it can be a better experience, but it's not hurting me.

I don't see how it's anywhere close to being as harmful to the community as griefers are.

I think you're missing the point. Personally I think that griefing on the whole is worse than this, but I'm pretty sure the OP wasn't saying what you are suggesting. Logging on to a server with no players will not hurt you. It hurts the other servers, and the NWN community in general, because its dishonest tactics. Griefing also has this effect in my opinion, but there's probably an argument that it binds the community together blah blah, whatever.

I know the Social scene very well, and the owner, Mavrixio, regularly boasts about his tactics in Gamespy chat. Because of that, I see no problem at all with naming and shaming him/them here, in the same way that we name/shame trolls and griefers.

[Khuzadrepa]

Quilver wrote...
That said, you're trying to directly compare the actual specifics of griefing with inflating player counts, when they're massively different things.

Quilver wrote...
We like to moan about griefers. Well, at least (most) griefers (sometimes) give us something to do. These weaselly servers are just bad for the whole NWN community.

To me, this implies a comparison that there could be something redeeming about griefing, making it better than inflating numbers.  I personally have never seen a positive experience with griefing, and have a hard time seeing how that could be possible.  If you've had one, well, exceptions are bound to happen, right?

I didn't miss the point.  I'm not saying I agree with inflated numbers, I also don't think it's a healthy tactic; I'm saying that this particular statement is something I (respectfully) don't agree with.

Modifié par Khuzadrepa, 16 mars 2011 - 05:26 .

[Fellanor]

Completely agree with Quilver. This sort of behaviour amongst server admins should be rooted out.

[SHOVA]

If you don't like how a PW does things, why play there? being annoyed with inflated player count is just as silly as being upset that not all PWs use CEP. Both CEP and Inflated Player counts are added content. Cheating has nothing to do with it. The player count does not make the game any more easy than it is. It does not change how the combat plays out, or how much store sell items, or even give certain PCs items.
My morals are just fine thank you, This is a game, not life. Hosting a inflated NWN server is not the same as breaking a actual real life law. In fact the only real law with NWN is the ELUA, which states you can not profit from anything you make in NWN. Inflating the players loged into a PW does not remotely challenge that.

If you have this big a problem with the way that someone runs their own server, then perhaps you should turn off NWN and get some counseling. Whining about it, and still looking to see if they are continuing to do it seems to be too much for you to handle.

I am going to point out that the player numbers have absoulutly nothing to do with how good a server is, it also has nothing to do with "hurting" another server. There a hundreds of servers running right now, with no players at all. They are up and running daily, and yet remain empty, some have been up for years. they will most likely continue to remain up regardless of how many fake players are added to the counts of whatever other servers.

[Calvinthesneak]

Bosgald wrote...

Er, who cares?

Ahhhh Bosgald.  I should have known you'd show up here.  This here is a far more troublesome player than someone who inflates server counts.  He's been known to actively recruit help from banned players to grief servers.

The player counts, I hardly worry about.  Quality over quantity.

[Gregor Wyrmbane]

 Personally, I don't understand why anyone would take the time to make such a big deal out of this "issue". As another poster pointed out, who cares if they're inflating their numbers?

False advertising? That implies that someone is delivering less (or a different) product to a customer than the customer is paying for. There's no money changing hands here. No one is cutting into anyone else's profits.

Cheating? Cheating who? Out of what? Bragging rights?

So, bottom line is, if you want to complain about something someone else is doing, that's your right. But don't be surprised or indignant if a lot of people don't care or agree.

[Quilver]

SHOVA wrote...

If you don't like how a PW does things, why play there? being annoyed with inflated player count is just as silly as being upset that not all PWs use CEP. Both CEP and Inflated Player counts are added content. Cheating has nothing to do with it. 

Incorrect. It's tricking the game, in the same way that using an override to 'hack' is tricking the game. Though, I suppose you just consider them to be 'localized added content'.

[Quilver]

Guys. This isn't rocket science.

Server X has 10 players logged on.

On Gamespy, it says Server X has 32 players logged on.

If you don't see the discrepancy, that's fine. But, to come here moaning about me moaning about something?

... I'll let you figure it out. I don't mind anyone giving their views. Some agree with my viewpoint, some disagree. But to come here and criticise me for 'making a big deal', while you are in fact 'making a big deal' about my post. Can you say... 'Irony'?

[SHOVA]

No it isn't rocket science, but playing there is not required either. The only one who seam to have a problem with how they do things, is you. Since none of the admins, from that server have come here, to answer your "charges" or to respond with take a flying leap, its up to the current community to answer, or to ignore your post. So, we first say its not a big deal, and you continue to say that it is, callling it cheating even. Now, however I won't bother telling you that your making something out of nothing, I will only say if you don't like it, well BOO HOO. They obviously do not care enough to come here and respond to you, and best bet, they won't stop it either. Since no player from that server has come here to respond either, looks as if no change to the real player count of the server will happen either. Guess your out of luck, and all your moaning changed nothing, and the seed of whatever you wanted to plant, got crushed by the "we don't care" boot.

[A_Julian]

Believe me, SHOVA, most people in the Social scene have a problem with how they do things. From where I'm standing, you're getting unnecessarily worked up about a perfectly legitimate rant.

I also think you're kinda missing the point, because it's mainly about servers and inter-server competition rather than random wandering players who happen to enter the mod. It's not like they are doing anything bad to their players. They're just cheating the system, by using a 'plug-in' to make it look like they are a highly populated server. If you require any proof that a high player count attracts player, go talk to the admins of Arelith, Amia or Styss.