126 réponses à ce sujet

[Fellanor]

SHOVA: Your post is oddly ironic.

I can't claim to have read every post in here, but you're complaining about, er, someone complaining?

Inflating player-counts isn't cool. Is it a criminal offence? No. Is it technically cheating the game? Yes. Is it a lame thing to do? Absolutely.

[Bosgald]

lordofworms wrote...

lol, if I could do it I would and I don't consider myself a 'bad' person...
but I agree, some (many) go by players, and if your a PW hurtin to just see ONE player , well yeah I would script in a way to have someone look logged in.
when I first started my PW (wow a year ago??) and launched it I watched dutifully for WEEEEEKs to not see a single person sign in...*sigh*
so I used one of my old accounts (I love NWN so of course I have like 6 copies) and logged in as some bloke...
an hour later someone logs in, and hour after that 2...
now that I have regulars I am happy that I am building not just for me but for 'someone' out there...
but sometimes things like this are just a means to an end...
or as you point out, maybe its just their way of looking 'busy' but I still have my faithfuls so honestly what does it matter that a server has 'ghosts' running about.
noone can make you 'love' a PW simply with high player counts.

This, btw.

Calvinthesneak: No idea who you are, but you have my confused with someone else. Also...

Quality...

I thought you were from Styss?

[SHOVA]

Your point is its your opinion that they are cheating. We got that.
The majority of the opinion by those posting replies to your post, is: we do not care. You have not got that point.
I am not worked up, mearly replying to your rant. Your under the impresion that a "plug-in" is a cheat, When it is just a plug-in. Anthing not included in the original game, or expasions, is a plug-in. Whether hak, override, or new script. A plug-in does not infere cheating, it mearly adds content to the game. In the case of your rant, the plug-in adds fake players. That is no more cheating then the PC nakedness content of the haks most of the social servers use.

I believe you are right about 1 thing, that being that most people who play social servers have a problem with how the (the admins of those servers) do things. having played on several of these PWs, the mods lack quality, working systems that create lag free PWs. they also seem to have a hard time finding compitent builders/scripters to set things right. However, they do have the right to run their servers as they want, to add whatever content, even fake players to their worlds.Just as you, and I have the right, to not log in to them.

As for interserver compitition, I believe your looking for something that is not there. Most servers, do not care what other servers are doing. It takes so much time and effort to keep a server running, that most people who choose to do that, only focus on the server that they are running. I take this a step further, A good server admin only cares about their own PWs, and their players. Because, there isn't time for the other.

[Quilver]

SHOVA wrote...

No it isn't rocket science, but playing there is not required either. The only one who seam to have a problem with how they do things, is you. Since none of the admins, from that server have come here, to answer your "charges" or to respond with take a flying leap, its up to the current community to answer, or to ignore your post. So, we first say its not a big deal, and you continue to say that it is, callling it cheating even. Now, however I won't bother telling you that your making something out of nothing, I will only say if you don't like it, well BOO HOO. They obviously do not care enough to come here and respond to you, and best bet, they won't stop it either. Since no player from that server has come here to respond either, looks as if no change to the real player count of the server will happen either. Guess your out of luck, and all your moaning changed nothing, and the seed of whatever you wanted to plant, got crushed by the "we don't care" boot.

Difficult to understand this rambling post, but in short:

Not at all. Lots of people have a problem with this. Quite the opposite, in fact: You seem to be the only one who is passionately for it, whereas most people are against it.

Perhaps you think it is acceptable to trick people. I don't.

In any case, you seem, as others have pointed out, more obsessed with this matter than I am. Have fun with that.

[Fellanor]

SHOVA wrote...

The majority of the opinion by those posting replies to your post, is: we do not care

Erm, you seem to care more than anyone, dude, judging by the length of your posts.

Also, bashing up the guy's thread is kinda lame. He brought forward something to consider. You disagree with him. Get over it. Absolutely no point in complaining about a thread's existence, within that thread.

[Fellanor]

Started to read through this thread now because it seems quite heated and entertaining...

The misguided...

We like to moan about griefers. Well, at least (most) griefers (sometimes) give us something to do. These weaselly servers are just bad for the whole NWN community.

The extreme...

I'm reporting this thread. I've never played on any of those servers, but if you think that naming and shaming on a forum is a good idea in any circumstance, you probably deserve a ban.

The deluded...

It seems like a silly tatic, mostly because I've found people actually intimated away by 50+ people.

The paranoid...?

The PW named Sinfair got the NWN Griefers forum shut down the first time. I am thinking this is a lash out more than anything else as Sinfair has never been known to do anything like stated.

Heh, I'm just playing around. This is good readage. Keep it going guys.

[SHOVA]

I have the opinion, that anyone who makes, and hosts a PW, has the right, to add to it, and run it as they see fit. As long as they follow the guidlines in the ELUA, then there is no problem. I also have the opinion, that any player, who badmouths someone for the way they do that, in public, shows no respect at all for the amount of work that went into that PW. Having made several Mods, Being a admin of several PWs, And dealing with the cry-baby attitude of players who want things their way, yet offer no help at all to get it there, or better yet, the screaming and griefing that comes with the "you need to do it this way cuz it would be so coolz! lol lol lol" I will always side with the Admin and hosts.

What is it you actualy want here, these PWs to remove their custom content? or to all together shut down for good? I fail to understand how this content cheats, or hurts anyone, epecially in a game that includes a toolset where you can make anything. I fail to see how this actualy hurts other servers, as posted by the OP. I fail to see why the Opinion of the OP is anything other than "they don't do things the way I like, therefore they are cheaters"
You are right, that I do have an opinion on this, and now that I have made it clear, I will ignore the topic. By all means cry about how they do things, because here on these forums, real change there will take place.

[Quilver]

SHOVA wrote...

Your point is its your opinion that they are cheating. We got that.
The majority of the opinion by those posting replies to your post, is: we do not care. You have not got that point.
I am not worked up, mearly replying to your rant. Your under the impresion that a "plug-in" is a cheat, When it is just a plug-in. Anthing not included in the original game, or expasions, is a plug-in. Whether hak, override, or new script. A plug-in does not infere cheating, it mearly adds content to the game. In the case of your rant, the plug-in adds fake players. That is no more cheating then the PC nakedness content of the haks most of the social servers use.

Hang on. Lemme get this straight, because your logic is, to say the least, baffling. First of all, let's dismiss the suggestion that I think every plug-in is a cheat, because I clearly didn't say that. I only said that the dishonest 'plug-ins' are cheats, like using an Override to boost your stats (which, apparently, griefers have been doing lately). But, let me just try to understand your viewpoint, at least...

1) This is a plug-in.
2) Because it is a plug-in, it is acceptable (regardless of what it does).
3) Because some acceptable plug-ins exist, all plug-ins are acceptable.

...Seriously?

[A_Julian]

I believe I was the one who brought up the term 'plug-in' in this thread, and that is because Sinfar's chief admin, Mavrixio, uses the term. He also has a reputation of frequently pestering people in Gamespy chat, and some people do mock him for his methods, but that's an aside. I'm not even sure what the definition of a 'plug-in' is but it's fairly obvious that what he is doing is deceitful. There are different levels.. Of course you can't lump all 'plug-ins' in together. Local graphical overrides are great. But, tweaking with 2das to give you massive stats on a server... That's bad. Don't kid yourself, SHOVA. This isn't some sort of 'added content'. You speak of it as though it's a cool feature. It's just plain old trickery, fraud, deceit, whatever you want to call it. It may not be a very powerful (or effective) form of fraud, but that's exactly what it is.

[Bosgald]

Erm, SHOVA = Mavrixio?

[PurpleDragonKnight]

I wasn't aware that this was going on. Thanks for pointing them out. I will most definitely avoid them. If a server has to cheat to get known, that probably means there isn't much substance to the server.

[SHOVA]

I am not Mavrixio, I am also not involved with any Social servers at this time.
It is obvious that some of you will never get past that this is cheating. That no amount of debate will sway your opinion. Thats your choice. However, by your definition, any server that adds content deemed by you to be a cheat, is griefing, or cheating, or just plain wrong. How sad it is that you sit there in judgement on others, when it is clear, that these servers are exactly how the hosts and admins wish to play their game. Perhaps if you had the skill involved to host, or build a server that is exactly as you like, someone else could come by and say its lame, and booring, and has a lack of vision, you would know how that feels. That is exactly what you are doing here, and why I even botherd to respond in the first place. I could care less if some server adds fake player count, just as I could care less that some servers do boost player stats to uberness, and levels past 40. By definition, that is cheating too. I do hope, that you can at least post a list, of what is and isn't cheating, as you seem to have made the decision for all of us. thanks for that by the way, so glad that you are now the rule makers. I will inform you now, that in no time in any future build of mine, will I follow your vision, rules, or listen to your input. I will build in NWN what I want not what you deem appropriate.

[NWN DM]

More people need to get laid. Or smoke a blunt.

Or both.

[kalbaern]

While I find the player count inflation to be distasteful, I leave it at that. It shows an insecurity on the behalf of those using the methods. I generally negatively associate this with the overall quality of the PW and avoid them when I see it.If someone feels tricked or duped into visiting what they thought was a popular server and once in it's just them and a couple others, they are right to feel cheated. I also understand all to well the motivation for a PW inflating their counts. Most of us want a decent crowd to play with and avoid a PW with low numbers often.

I don't see this as criminal or overly harmful to any but those that employ the method though.

[omen_shepperd]

Gregor Wyrmbane wrote...

 Personally, I don't understand why anyone would take the time to make such a big deal out of this "issue". As another poster pointed out, who cares if they're inflating their numbers?

False advertising? That implies that someone is delivering less (or a different) product to a customer than the customer is paying for. There's no money changing hands here. No one is cutting into anyone else's profits.

Cheating? Cheating who? Out of what? Bragging rights?

So, bottom line is, if you want to complain about something someone else is doing, that's your right. But don't be surprised or indignant if a lot of people don't care or agree.

I compleatly aggree , if you dont like the false advertising of a server dont visit it, dont promote it.

[Shadooow]

A_Julian wrote...

But, tweaking with 2das to give you massive stats on a server...

2da cheating is not plug-in.

Plugins are called third party programs that allow server admins to do amazing things on their servers. Third party programs that allows cheating are called macros.

[Baaleos]

Being totally honest - does anyone really care if a server is falsifying their player stats.

Its somewhat easy to do,
the only benefit it might provide is to put a server higher up in the gamespy list. Maybe a small inconvenience to players.

All in all, its more a dis-service to the server itself, to lie about their player count.
It doesnt hurt other servers in anyway.

And lets face it
Its not like we make money out of our servers in any case.
No Harm No Foul.


I might even try to code in a nwnx plugin to do this...
It sounds like a fun thing to try.

Eg - When 0 players are logged in, simulate that there are 4 players logged in.
When 1 players logs in, remove those 4 false ones...

Instant Honey Trap

Modifié par Baaleos, 15 mars 2011 - 04:13 .

[Shadooow]

Baaleos wrote...

I might even try to code in a nwnx plugin to do this...
It sounds like a fun thing to try.

Eg - When 0 players are logged in, simulate that there are 4 players logged in.
When 1 players logs in, remove those 4 false ones...

Instant Honey Trap

If you managed this, please dont public it. I do think that this is more about envy, nothing else, what would happen if anyone could have this option? Suddenly everyone use it and the gamespy player count will be totally misleading...

PS. I have the access to this and I used it in past but it was useless. It has no effect if you have no players, the effect will arise with decent player count.

[Baaleos]

Dont worry, I dont intend to publicize it.

Im more interested in it just from a coding point of view- practice etc.
Ya know, just to get experience with nwnx coding.

[TSMDude]

Shova, just ignore it as trolls will be trolls and feeding them does no good.

[NWN DM]

So, do these inflated player counts get referenced (i.e. get counted) when GameSpy tells you "1445 players on-line" (or whatever)?

[Jenna WSI]

I'm curious how this is even done. As far as I knew the player count you have is what you're stuck with.

Additionally... I wouldn't care as a player, if I logged in and a server had 12 instead of 39 players. If there are still people playing, it wouldn't change much for me in the purpose I had for logging in - to play with others.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 15 mars 2011 - 08:03 .

[TSMDude]

Jenna WSI wrote...

I'm curious how this is even done. As far as I knew the player count you have is what you're stuck with.

Additionally... I wouldn't care as a player, if I logged in and a server had 12 instead of 39 players. If there are still people playing, it wouldn't change much for me in the purpose I had for logging in - to play with others.

It is a lot easier to do than you think if you use NWNX and several servers do apply this. Have we? Yes once to see if it was possible but quickly turned it off. In all honesty having 50 plus players would overwhelm our Staff and rp world.

Having 8 to 15 suits us perfect. Once you go down the road to see how to do it it is best to come back.

[Zanzibarr]

Inflating player counts is not only dishonest, but stupid. Yes, it probably has a positive effect on their visibility, but it will also cause them to gain ridicule.

[Fellanor]

So, do these inflated player counts get referenced (i.e. get counted) when GameSpy tells you "1445 players on-line" (or whatever)?

Yes.

You load up NWN. You look in, say, Social. You see Sinfar has 40 players on, in the main list where all the servers are shown. You log on and discover that 10 players are on. The false count will also show up if the server is in your Favorites or History.