126 réponses à ce sujet

[Mavrixio]

Zanzibarr wrote...

You don't get it, and I don't think you're ever going to get it. You're a cheap trickster trying to rationalize his means.

I think that its you that dont get it...

If you dont put yourself in that category of server admin that dont want to be competed then you should not be caring about this.

Really, I havent seen any player caring much to see that the server has not as many player as on gamespy. Theyget over it quite fast... and with reasons...

Modifié par Mavrixio, 16 mars 2011 - 02:05 .

[TSMDude]

SHOVA wrote...

I am a troll, hence the picture <--- and That is not false advertisement. What cracks me up, is the people who think they can tell others how to do things in a game, where its Main appeal is it can be tailored to whatever playstyle. If you want to run around naked as a blue gnome dragon, you can. If you want to build a mod, and host it for free to anyone who wants to log into it, you can. if you want new content, you can build it and add it to the game. Don't like how the OC AI works, DL a new one that works even better. Hate D&D?, well you can change that to something else with this game too. Out of all the wonderful dementions that NWN has to offer, the only rule, is: Do not try and make money from it. Now that is unbelieveable, when you look at every other game out there.

I don't actualy care that someone fudges on their servers player count. I don't plan on logging in to it anyway. I do however have a problem with people telling others how to do things, or making up rules that are not there. Bio-ware has no rule against this. Neither does Gamespy. Is it a good thing to do? well it did get a bunch of people talking about it. Did it add members to their servers, or take away other servers players? Doubtfull at best. The thing is after all these years with NWN, most players are staying where they are, that is why most empty servers stay empty.

This community has had its share of trolls over the years. Anyone who remembers the NWN2 trolling can tell you all about it. What we as a community do not need, is for anyone to tell us what we should be doing with this game. We know what to do with it. There are better things to do with your time anyway, because, as posted, they are not going to stop doing it anyway. If you can't handle how someone runs their game, then do not log into it. If you can't stand that this is allowed, then try World of Warcraft, or the soon released NWNMMO. there are sure to be all kinds of don't do this, or that, rules for you to enjoy.

What he said.

[Jenna WSI]

I don't actually care what they do (because not many servers are doing it), but... saying it's okay with gamespy might not be a very accurate comment. To my knowledge gamespy doesn't allow you to alter the true rating, so they did not intend for it to be cheated this way. Otherwise the listing quickly becomes a pointless feature.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 16 mars 2011 - 02:45 .

[Quilver]

First of all, Mavrixio, thank you for confirming that you do indeed use this cheat. Some of the trolls in this thread have claimed that Sinfar doesn't do any such thing, that the player count is accurate. It would have been easy for you to side with the trolls and dismiss everything else as a conspiracy. So, thank you for doing this. (I'm also assuming you're actually the real Mavrixio, and not one of the trolls having more 'fun').

I am quite surprised, however, that you have come here and tried to defend your actions. I'm not convinced you really believe what you are saying, but I will explain, in simple terms, why what you are doing is wrong:

a) You are directly compromising the integrity of the information displayed on NWN/Gamespy. You are cheating the system, skewing the figures. It's deceit in the most basic sense of the word.

It is harmful to the community. You not only annoy many players and server admins, but you set a bad example. Imagine if many server admins started copying you, skewing their figures too. The NWN/Gamespy server lists would become almost meaningless. It would be impossible to sort the servers by population.

Now, if that didn't get through to you, I can offer an analogy:

Youtube. I run a channel on Youtube, perhaps you do too. Some users will create many false accounts to vote up their own videos. This is against the rules, and user accounts regularly get terminated because of it. What they are doing is using fraud to make it look like their channel/video is something that it is not. They want it to be more popular than it is, and they are resorting to deceitful methods which go against the spirit of fair play. Also, there are programs (or 'plug-ins', as you might like to call them) which you can download from dodgy sites which will keep running over your Youtube videos, using a variety of proxies, to make it look like you are getting lots of unique views. Anyone caught doing this gets banned immediately. It directly compromises the integrity of the information displayed on Youtube. It's false, it's dishonourable, it's cheating. There is a direct analogy - What you are doing is, essentially, the same. Neither of you are making profits - You're just trying to cheat your way to popularity/success. That NWN/Gamespy is far less closely monitored than Youtube does not in any way change the morality of what you're doing. So you can get away with it more easily than you can on Youtube. Does that make it acceptable? Of course not. Simple human moralities come above the law.

I will leave you on a definition of 'cheating', which you may have already read, to ponder:

"Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others."

[Drewskie]

More people need to get laid.

Impossible for many here.

[SHOVA]

Quilver wrote...

First of all, Mavrixio, thank you for confirming that you do indeed use this cheat. Some of the trolls in this thread have claimed that Sinfar doesn't do any such thing, that the player count is accurate. It would have been easy for you to side with the trolls and dismiss everything else as a conspiracy. So, thank you for doing this. (I'm also assuming you're actually the real Mavrixio, and not one of the trolls having more 'fun').

I am quite surprised, however, that you have come here and tried to defend your actions. I'm not convinced you really believe what you are saying, but I will explain, in simple terms, why what you are doing is wrong:

a) You are directly compromising the integrity of the information displayed on NWN/Gamespy. You are cheating the system, skewing the figures. It's deceit in the most basic sense of the word.

It is harmful to the community. You not only annoy many players and server admins, but you set a bad example. Imagine if many server admins started copying you, skewing their figures too. The NWN/Gamespy server lists would become almost meaningless. It would be impossible to sort the servers by population.

Now, if that didn't get through to you, I can offer an analogy:

Youtube. I run a channel on Youtube, perhaps you do too. Some users will create many false accounts to vote up their own videos. This is against the rules, and user accounts regularly get terminated because of it. What they are doing is using fraud to make it look like their channel/video is something that it is not. They want it to be more popular than it is, and they are resorting to deceitful methods which go against the spirit of fair play. Also, there are programs (or 'plug-ins', as you might like to call them) which you can download from dodgy sites which will keep running over your Youtube videos, using a variety of proxies, to make it look like you are getting lots of unique views. Anyone caught doing this gets banned immediately. It directly compromises the integrity of the information displayed on Youtube. It's false, it's dishonourable, it's cheating. There is a direct analogy - What you are doing is, essentially, the same. Neither of you are making profits - You're just trying to cheat your way to popularity/success. That NWN/Gamespy is far less closely monitored than Youtube does not in any way change the morality of what you're doing. So you can get away with it more easily than you can on Youtube. Does that make it acceptable? Of course not. Simple human moralities come above the law.

I will leave you on a definition of 'cheating', which you may have already read, to ponder:

"Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others."

OI! rule ****, try reading the actual rules before you start making some up.
the gamespy rules of use:
http://corp.ign.com/...-agreement.html

And Bio-wares ELUA:
http://nwn.bioware.c...=58&topic=46097

those are the only rules with this game, which at last check was not Youtube. The only thing that you are posting is opinion. Not Rules, or Cheats.

[PurpleDragonKnight]

Quilver wrote...

First of all, Mavrixio, thank you for confirming that you do indeed use this cheat. Some of the trolls in this thread have claimed that Sinfar doesn't do any such thing, that the player count is accurate. It would have been easy for you to side with the trolls and dismiss everything else as a conspiracy. So, thank you for doing this. (I'm also assuming you're actually the real Mavrixio, and not one of the trolls having more 'fun').

I am quite surprised, however, that you have come here and tried to defend your actions. I'm not convinced you really believe what you are saying, but I will explain, in simple terms, why what you are doing is wrong:

a) You are directly compromising the integrity of the information displayed on NWN/Gamespy. You are cheating the system, skewing the figures. It's deceit in the most basic sense of the word.

It is harmful to the community. You not only annoy many players and server admins, but you set a bad example. Imagine if many server admins started copying you, skewing their figures too. The NWN/Gamespy server lists would become almost meaningless. It would be impossible to sort the servers by population.

Now, if that didn't get through to you, I can offer an analogy:

Youtube. I run a channel on Youtube, perhaps you do too. Some users will create many false accounts to vote up their own videos. This is against the rules, and user accounts regularly get terminated because of it. What they are doing is using fraud to make it look like their channel/video is something that it is not. They want it to be more popular than it is, and they are resorting to deceitful methods which go against the spirit of fair play. Also, there are programs (or 'plug-ins', as you might like to call them) which you can download from dodgy sites which will keep running over your Youtube videos, using a variety of proxies, to make it look like you are getting lots of unique views. Anyone caught doing this gets banned immediately. It directly compromises the integrity of the information displayed on Youtube. It's false, it's dishonourable, it's cheating. There is a direct analogy - What you are doing is, essentially, the same. Neither of you are making profits - You're just trying to cheat your way to popularity/success. That NWN/Gamespy is far less closely monitored than Youtube does not in any way change the morality of what you're doing. So you can get away with it more easily than you can on Youtube. Does that make it acceptable? Of course not. Simple human moralities come above the law.

I will leave you on a definition of 'cheating', which you may have already read, to ponder:

"Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others."

Could not have put it any better. Very well said indeed.

[Aelis Eine]

SHOVA wrote...
OI! rule ****, try reading the actual rules before you start making some up.
the gamespy rules of use:
http://corp.ign.com/...-agreement.html

And Bio-wares ELUA:
http://nwn.bioware.c...=58&topic=46097

those are the only rules with this game, which at last check was not Youtube. The only thing that you are posting is opinion. Not Rules, or Cheats.

They don't seem to be made up. Under the Gamespy User Agreement, clause 3.E.(v), the user agrees not to:

use any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working or authorized uses of the Services or with any other person's use of the Services

Rendering the service unable to accurately report the player count of a server can be interpreted to be interfering with the "proper working uses of the services". Going by that, I think Mavrixio runs a very real risk of having his server removed from the Gamespy list if it were to be reported.

Modifié par Aelis Eine, 16 mars 2011 - 03:21 .

[Zanzibarr]

Mainly what Aelis Eine said, but also:

Rule 3.A

Provide Accurate Information.

At best, you're narrowly getting away with it because they haven't bothered to include a specific reference to artificially altering the figures. At worst, you're breaking 2, possibly 3, general rules. I'm leaning towards the worst.

[A_Julian]

Rule 3.A

Provide Accurate Information.

Well, that seems more to do with providing accurate personal data when you register, but it's also pretty relevant to point it out. I wonder if SHOVA and Mavrixio think that Gamespy wants you to provide accurate information about yourself, but they don't care if you abuse their services by using a third-party device to provide inaccurate and misleading information on their display lists.

[Zanzibarr]

"You acknowledge that IGN, in its sole discretion, may terminate your ID, password, account (or any part thereof) or use of the Premium Service for a variety of reasons, including, without limitation, if IGN believes that you have violated or acted inconsistently with the letter or spirit of the User Agreement or any other agreement referred to in the User Agreement."

In other words, if you're not breaking the letter of the User Agreement (which you probably are), you might be breaking the spirit of it (which you definitely are).

Modifié par Zanzibarr, 16 mars 2011 - 04:07 .

[A_Julian]

Wouldn't be the first time they've violated a ToS/User Agreement. Their forums got removed by ProBoards:

http://sinfar.proboards.com/

[Mavrixio]

The only one here that could have a problem with fake players are other servers admins and I stated why they shouldn't

Other point are obsviously just all about looking for a problem where there's not.

Curiously, the 4 persons that are encouraging each other here have all registered in the last 2 days, so i guess that Eradrain was right in the second post, this thread is just about naming shamming a few servers.

Modifié par Mavrixio, 16 mars 2011 - 04:30 .

[Shadooow]

Lol, really:

Quilver: Joined: 2011-03-14
A_Juian: Joined: 2011-03-14
Fellanor: Joined: 2011-03-15
Zanzibarr: Joined: 2011-03-15
TenaciousP: Joined: 2011-03-15

These looks like one person...

[A_Julian]

People who joined recently are getting involved in a discussion? Shocking. Do you expect us to join and then wander away, staying out of these discussions because we're new?

On that note...

ShadoOoW: Joined: 2010-07-08
TSMDude: Joined: 2010-07-13
Lightfoot8: Joined: 2010-07-13
NWN DM: Joined: 2010-07-13
Jenna WSI: Joined: 2010-07-13
kalbaern: Joined: 2010-07-16
Gregor Wyrmbane: Joined: 2010-07-16
Khuzadrepa: Joined: 2010-07-18
Baaleos: Joined: 2010-07-19
Mavrixio: Joined: 2010-07-23

They must all be the same person! (Note: This is irony)

[Zanzibarr]

A_Julian wrote...

People who joined recently are getting involved in a discussion? Shocking. Do you expect us to join and then wander away, staying out of these discussions because we're new?

On that note...

ShadoOoW: Joined: 2010-07-08
TSMDude: Joined: 2010-07-13
Lightfoot8: Joined: 2010-07-13
NWN DM: Joined: 2010-07-13
Jenna WSI: Joined: 2010-07-13
kalbaern: Joined: 2010-07-16
Gregor Wyrmbane: Joined: 2010-07-16
Khuzadrepa: Joined: 2010-07-18
Baaleos: Joined: 2010-07-19
Mavrixio: Joined: 2010-07-23

They must all be the same person! (Note: This is irony)

Wow, that's uncanny.

Obviously, new users are more likely than anyone to be prevalent on the forum, but... All those users happening to join very close to each other, in August 2010... Most of them sharing similar views. That's just weird.

[Khuzadrepa]

Zanzibarr wrote...
Wow, that's uncanny.

Obviously, new users are more likely than anyone to be prevalent on the forum, but... All those users happening to join very close to each other, in August 2010... Most of them sharing similar views. That's just weird.

It was announced on July 13, 2010 that the old NWN forums were going to shut down.  They were closed as of July 19, 2010.  

A lot of people who frequented the old forum moved over right around then.  This NWN1 forum didn't exist before that.  There's really nothing uncanny about it. 

Modifié par Khuzadrepa, 16 mars 2011 - 06:12 .

[Aleron]

...I was just about to say that but Khuz beat me to the punch. Was the same reason here, pretty sure my join date would be roughly around that same time.

[Quilver]

Mavrixio...

The only one here that could have a problem with fake players are other servers admins and I stated why they shouldn't..

So, you're now admitting that it is unfair on other server owners, yet they shouldn't have a problem with it because you say they shouldn't (and, because, you're the one doing it)?

I think I just choked on the arrogance. Amazing.

A_Julian: Very interesting spot.

[Baaleos]

Quilver - It really comes down to this.

Some server admins somewhere, can do this, and the ones who cannot are the ones giving off about it.

I can do it, I choose not to, in fact im quite happy to leave my half done server mod online getting little attention, because lets face it, NWN1 albeit is a good game, is an old game, and I have better things to spend my time on than lying about my player count on a game that is limited in its possibilities.

Does lying about your server count make you win a popularity contest?
No

Does it make people see you in a negative light?
Yes

Should anyone really care about this?
No


Blaming your own server(in general) population dwindling, on other servers, is just silly.
People leave a server, if they dont want to play there.
People stay in a server, if they enjoy the server, not because it 'says' it has 70 players logged in.

Do you think a player would join a 50+ player server, only to find it has 2 people in it, and then stay if they didnt enjoy the experience?

[Quilver]

Just contradicted yourself in your first couple of lines, bud.

Baaleos wrote...

Some server admins somewhere, can do this, and the ones who cannot are the ones giving off about it.

I can do it...

[A_Julian]

I've reported the matter to both Gamespy and Bioware. Don't be surprised if the Sinfar server goes the same way as their forum...

Also, I can add a second contradiction to Baaleos' comment. I can do it, and am complaining about it. That's your theory disproven in one swipe (well, you contradicted yourself first).

Also, you seem to be suggesting that the people against cheating are raising their concerns out of jealousy. A quite pathetic position to take, and is akin to saying that anyone who reports a criminal is doing so because they can't commit the crime themselves. Childish, illogical, pathetic, boring. Happy gaming.

[ehye_khandee]

Mavrixio,

Dishonesty is just that. You from where I sit, look the fool; self-important and willing to justify any means to your ends.

Liars lie and other people are damaged by them.

Why decieve your visitors? I can't imagine that they don't feel a little abused by your ruse. Knowing a server inflates its numbers makes me want NEVER to join that server, not even to look.

Shamelessly you behave here, proclaiming yourself above honesty for your own gain. I have nothing more to say on this save that you SHOULD be shamed by your actions and I'm pretty sure you'll be tainted with this episode for a long long time in the eyes of the NWN public.

Admin and Lead Builder of an HONEST and well built server.

GM_ODA

[TSMDude]

A_Julian wrote...

I've reported the matter to both Gamespy and Bioware. Don't be surprised if the Sinfar server goes the same way as their forum...

Also, I can add a second contradiction to Baaleos' comment. I can do it, and am complaining about it. That's your theory disproven in one swipe (well, you contradicted yourself first).

Also, you seem to be suggesting that the people against cheating are raising their concerns out of jealousy. A quite pathetic position to take, and is akin to saying that anyone who reports a criminal is doing so because they can't commit the crime themselves. Childish, illogical, pathetic, boring. Happy gaming.

All right.

1/  There is a team of Hackers/Griefers out there who attacked Sinfair in force.

2/ Sinfair found that the hackers/Griefers were on a proboard with a forum and reported them for abuse. The main Griefer albertosoto/ aka NW_Renegade is also one of our guys claiming that Sinfair is doing this. His little team is 6 strong at the moment. (Though only 2 of them have any idea what they are doing the rest are little scriptkiddys.)

3/ Sinfair then had thier proboard shut down when the Admin there got into it with proboards for allowing the Griefers to set up a new forum. Kinda silly on Proboards.

4/ Several heavy weights and LONG TIME folks have weighed in on this and really find it a nonissue. It is kinda like someone saying they drink only Guinness because they are beer purist yet you always see them with a Zima and a Joly Rancher like a soroity gal at a frat party. Silly to do but really who cares?

[SHOVA]

A_Julian wrote...

I've reported the matter to both Gamespy and Bioware. Don't be surprised if the Sinfar server goes the same way as their forum...

Also, I can add a second contradiction to Baaleos' comment. I can do it, and am complaining about it. That's your theory disproven in one swipe (well, you contradicted yourself first).

Also, you seem to be suggesting that the people against cheating are raising their concerns out of jealousy. A quite pathetic position to take, and is akin to saying that anyone who reports a criminal is doing so because they can't commit the crime themselves. Childish, illogical, pathetic, boring. Happy gaming.

Best of luck with that.

TSMdude, did you call the long timers here fat?