126 réponses à ce sujet

[TSMDude]

SHOVA wrote...

Best of luck with that.

TSMdude, did you call the long timers here fat?

We sit on a computer all day eating funyuns and drinking energy drinks...no we all are athletic marvels to behold. *flexes but fails his DC check hitting himself in the eye*

[SHOVA]

Good answer, here is your Zima and Jolly Rancher.

[Baaleos]

Quilver wrote...

Just contradicted yourself in your first couple of lines, bud.

Baaleos wrote...

Some server admins somewhere, can do this, and the ones who cannot are the ones giving off about it.

I can do it...

I fail to see how I contradicted myself there...

Some server admins somewhere can do this - Fact
The ones who cant are giving off about it - Going by this thread, is somewhat factual.

Yes, I have the knowledge of how to do it, But I choose not to.

Am I giving off about people doing it, No
Am I giving off about people giving off about it... Yes

Blaming Server A for Server B's short-comings is silly.

[FelSeero]

Modifié par FelSeero, 16 mars 2011 - 02:12 .

[Jenna WSI]

Quilver showed up on my forums offering to do some work with our server, a week or so ago... so no he's not on NWN as just some troll. Cannot speak for the other accounts though.

[Gregor Wyrmbane]

 "My server's more popular than your server." "Nuh uh!" "Uh huh! See? I got more players than you." No you don't. You cheated! I looked." Yeah? So? What'cha gonna do about it?" "I'm tellin' the teacher, and you're gonna get a spankin'!"

*rolls his eyes*  Awful lot o' mud slingin' goin' on around here over some braggin' rights.

[NWN DM]

Fellanor wrote...

So, do these inflated player counts get referenced (i.e. get counted) when GameSpy tells you "1445 players on-line" (or whatever)?

Yes.

You load up NWN. You look in, say, Social. You see Sinfar has 40 players on, in the main list where all the servers are shown. You log on and discover that 10 players are on. The false count will also show up if the server is in your Favorites or History.

Interesting. 

Guess there isn't as huge a discrepancy between on-line player counts between NWN and NWN2 as it appears then.

All the same, this is really dishonest and should be a violation of some kind IMO.

[Aleron]

I wouldn't say that. I think you'll find those servers are the exception rather than the rule. As this board has shown, most aren't exactly approving of such tactics.

[Fellanor]

The two most truthful posts in this thread? This...

Quilver wrote...

First of all, Mavrixio, thank you for confirming that you do indeed use this cheat. Some of the trolls in this thread have claimed that Sinfar doesn't do any such thing, that the player count is accurate. It would have been easy for you to side with the trolls and dismiss everything else as a conspiracy. So, thank you for doing this. (I'm also assuming you're actually the real Mavrixio, and not one of the trolls having more 'fun').

I am quite surprised, however, that you have come here and tried to defend your actions. I'm not convinced you really believe what you are saying, but I will explain, in simple terms, why what you are doing is wrong:

a) You are directly compromising the integrity of the information displayed on NWN/Gamespy. You are cheating the system, skewing the figures. It's deceit in the most basic sense of the word.

It is harmful to the community. You not only annoy many players and server admins, but you set a bad example. Imagine if many server admins started copying you, skewing their figures too. The NWN/Gamespy server lists would become almost meaningless. It would be impossible to sort the servers by population.

Now, if that didn't get through to you, I can offer an analogy:

Youtube. I run a channel on Youtube, perhaps you do too. Some users will create many false accounts to vote up their own videos. This is against the rules, and user accounts regularly get terminated because of it. What they are doing is using fraud to make it look like their channel/video is something that it is not. They want it to be more popular than it is, and they are resorting to deceitful methods which go against the spirit of fair play. Also, there are programs (or 'plug-ins', as you might like to call them) which you can download from dodgy sites which will keep running over your Youtube videos, using a variety of proxies, to make it look like you are getting lots of unique views. Anyone caught doing this gets banned immediately. It directly compromises the integrity of the information displayed on Youtube. It's false, it's dishonourable, it's cheating. There is a direct analogy - What you are doing is, essentially, the same. Neither of you are making profits - You're just trying to cheat your way to popularity/success. That NWN/Gamespy is far less closely monitored than Youtube does not in any way change the morality of what you're doing. So you can get away with it more easily than you can on Youtube. Does that make it acceptable? Of course not. Simple human moralities come above the law.

I will leave you on a definition of 'cheating', which you may have already read, to ponder:

"Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others."

And this...

ehye_khandee wrote...

Mavrixio,

Dishonesty is just that. You from where I sit, look the fool; self-important and willing to justify any means to your ends.

Liars lie and other people are damaged by them.

Why decieve your visitors? I can't imagine that they don't feel a little abused by your ruse. Knowing a server inflates its numbers makes me want NEVER to join that server, not even to look.

Shamelessly you behave here, proclaiming yourself above honesty for your own gain. I have nothing more to say on this save that you SHOULD be shamed by your actions and I'm pretty sure you'll be tainted with this episode for a long long time in the eyes of the NWN public.

Admin and Lead Builder of an HONEST and well built server.

GM_ODA

Sometimes the truth hurts. But I think that, even though this is only a game and yes we probably do all need to get laid, it's actually pretty important to let cheaters know that they are in the wrong. Otherwise their egos will run rampant.

[Fellanor]

Baaleos wrote...

Some server admins somewhere can do this - Fact
The ones who cant are giving off about it - Going by this thread, is somewhat factual.

Where did anyone in this thread say they don't know how to do it but would like to?

I'm inclined to agree with Quilver. The arrogance emanating from this thread is astonishing.

TSMDude wrote...

Several heavy weights and LONG TIME folks have weighed in on this and really find it a nonissue.

I mean, dude ... Seriously? Heavyweights? This is a friggin' game forum. Get over yourself. You're no more important than the next NWN players. There are thousands of online NWN players and your little pro-cheating group constitutes about 0.1% of them. You have no right to claim that your opinion holds the most merit. If you did a survey of all the NWN players, I can practically guarantee you that most of them would be anti-cheating. Most NWNers are fair players.

Modifié par Fellanor, 16 mars 2011 - 10:51 .

[Aelis Eine]

I think he meant veterans 

Modifié par Aelis Eine, 16 mars 2011 - 11:40 .

[Aleron]

*accidental double post*

Modifié par Aleron, 16 mars 2011 - 11:42 .

[Aleron]

Uh not sure where you get off, but he never said his server uses that (and it doesn't). Sounds like a lot of assuming on your end. Plus pretty sure Aelis is right.

He said it was a nonissue to him, not that he endorses it or condones it. He never said he was "pro-cheating". I happen to know The Silver Marches does not make use of this. Out of the server admins out there, I have no issues with the staff of TSM and most of them seem more than fair and good people all round.

Modifié par Aleron, 16 mars 2011 - 11:43 .

[TSMDude]

Fellanor wrote...

TSMDude wrote...

Several heavy weights and LONG TIME folks have weighed in on this and really find it a nonissue.

I mean, dude ... Seriously? Heavyweights? This is a friggin' game forum. Get over yourself. You're no more important than the next NWN players. There are thousands of online NWN players and your little pro-cheating group constitutes about 0.1% of them. You have no right to claim that your opinion holds the most merit. If you did a survey of all the NWN players, I can practically guarantee you that most of them would be anti-cheating. Most NWNers are fair players.

Never said I wa sprocheating and actually said really this is not that big of a deal and really is just a bunch of the same guy and his buddys going apecrap over nothing to draw attention from thier own activities.

And yes, i do consider LordOfWorms a true heavyweight in the Community while I consider myself a LONG TIME folk. You are the one who is practicing stuff straight off Faux news and using contextomy to illustrate false talking points to try and say I am procheating or consider myself a heavy weight which I never did.

I can easily point to many folks who would consider someone of LordOfWorms stature as equal to that of a Brian Chung or even as great if not better than OldManWhistler himself.

So while I know you are busy trying to air someone elses dirty laundry and make yourself some points with the Trolling for Dummies crowd I am going to have dinner with my way too perfect for a gamer wife, read some books to the kids and realize that if someone else is being dishonest on THIER server it has nothing to do with mine.

Griefing effects our server and others. Trolling just makes you look like a spout of foolishness.

[A_Julian]

TSMDude: I think you're the biggest troll in this thread.

First you brought the NWN Greifers into it, when they have nothing to do with the debated topic. Then you said:

I am thinking this is a lash out more than anything else as Sinfair has never been known to do anything like stated.

This was a flat-out lie. You're saying that Sinfar has never been known to do anything like stated, when they have been known to do it for several months, and the owner has come here and admitted it.

Then, you were the first person to start throwing around accusations of trollery, and as is often the case, the stirrer is the real troll.

Most of the rest of your posts were barely logical, or just being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

Calling people who have been on this forum for a long time 'pillars of the community' and 'heavyweights' is more than slightly bizarre. Your entire world seems to be centered around this forum. You seem to believe that someone who has been on this particular forum for a 'LONG TIME' is some sort of NWN authority figure. Well, I can tell you, there are hundreds, probably thousands, of players who have been playing NWN since 2002 and have never set foot on this forum. Sorry to destroy your world, so to speak, but you're wrong and, I believe, the most trollish poster here.

[TSMDude]

A_Julian wrote...
Calling people who have been on this forum for a long time 'pillars of the community' and 'heavyweights' is more than slightly bizarre. Your entire world seems to be centered around this forum. You seem to believe that someone who has been on this particular forum for a 'LONG TIME' is some sort of NWN authority figure. Well, I can tell you, there are hundreds, probably thousands, of players who have been playing NWN since 2002 and have never set foot on this forum.

Yes hundereds and thousands who played the game before 2002...even though the game was released June of 2002 but hey...your probally right.

[Fellanor]

Aelis Eine wrote...

I think he meant veterans 

Ah, maybe. I was going by the standard definition of 'heavyweight', lin the boxing term..

Heavyweight: a person of exceptional importance and reputation

That's what it means round here anyway. Also, calling other posters 'pillars of the community'.. It seems a bit OTT. However, I hadn't read his joke afterwards, about fat NWNers, so I'm not too sure what he meant. Most of his posts seem to be trollish though, and I should probably follow my own advice and stop feeding the trolls. x_x

Might actually be worth compiling a list of all the trolls in this thread and sending them to the mods. There are at least 3.

Edit: Oh and he's just trolled again.

Modifié par Fellanor, 17 mars 2011 - 12:48 .

[Fellanor]

Aleron wrote...

Uh not sure where you get off, but he never said his server uses that (and it doesn't). Sounds like a lot of assuming on your end. Plus pretty sure Aelis is right.

He said it was a nonissue to him, not that he endorses it or condones it. He never said he was "pro-cheating". I happen to know The Silver Marches does not make use of this. Out of the server admins out there, I have no issues with the staff of TSM and most of them seem more than fair and good people all round.

Eh, well, he agreed with the pro-cheater SHOVA. Let's assume for a minute he's not a troll, for the purpose of this situation. He probably is pro-cheating because of his agreement with SHOVA, who is very explicitly pro-cheating, but even if he isn't, he has most definitely shown that he is not against cheating. And, in my book, that's almost as bad. Being ambivalent towards cheating allows cheaters to prosper.

[PurpleDragonKnight]

...he has most definitely shown that he is not against cheating. And, in my book, that's almost as bad. Being ambivalent towards cheating allows cheaters to prosper.

A good summary. If people don't stand up against cheaters and abusers, they do get away with it. Describing it as a 'non-issue' belittles the matter, when it is a rather significant exploit.

[Zanzibarr]

Dismissing the entire issue because a couple of forum veterans say it's not an issue... That's... pretty pathetic. Even more strange when you look at the amount of time they've wasted arguing vigorously against this nonissue.

[Shadooow]

Fellanor wrote...

Where did anyone in this thread say they don't know how to do it but would like to?

I'm inclined to agree with Quilver. The arrogance emanating from this thread is astonishing.

I would like to know, what server do you admin, host etc. A_Julian, Fellanor, Zanzibarr, Quilver. You crossed every moral on these forums, calling everyone elses trolls, mocking those who do not share the same view.

You think you are better than Mavrixio, but you are not. So tell us what servers do you admin, so we can avoid them as well as Sinfair.

[Quilver]

Might actually be worth compiling a list of all the trolls in this thread and sending them to the mods. There are at least 3.

Already done. I identified 4 and I have serious suspicions that they are the same person - It's certainly not just the views they held, which were identical, but the way they all lied and misinterpreted things being said. It succeeded to some extent, in stifling the thread into a endless, pointless debate about something which, I think most of us can agree, is a fairly obvious issue.

2 people have told me that the mods on this forum are notoriously inactive (which is probably why they troll here), so we might be waiting a while, but I'm confident that the matter will be dealt with.

[kalbaern]

Is inflating your true player count cheating? I think most here do agree it is.

If folk wish to complain to GameSpy about it, you've my blessings.

If folk think that I or most others are going to jump on the bandwagon, they might be disappointed because I suspect most of us won't.

It's not apathy. It's not that we secretly endorse it while publicly claiming we don't. Most of us just have larger concerns that directly and not indirectly affect each of our own PWs.

I know of a handful of PWs that use this deception as a lure to get players. If I log in as #13 when I just spotted the load at 12 and I'm actually alone, I vote with my feet. I log out and I've never revisited or recommended those servers to others.

Yes, it's dishonest, decietful, cheating and lieing and a thousand other things ... and I have done something. I left, never looked back and when asked told others the same. Just because I've better things to do with my limited time like fix broken scripts, combat **** griefers and see to my own players concerns does not mean I or others like me promote this practice. We've simply bigger fish to fry.

In closing, shame on any PW that uses this as a lure to gain "lookers". You do yourself and the rest of us a great dishonor. I also believe you reap what you sow. If a PW has to lie to recruit folk, then obviously they lack the means to retain them and it'll all work out in the end.

[SHOVA]

Fellanor wrote...

Aleron wrote...

Uh not sure where you get off, but he never said his server uses that (and it doesn't). Sounds like a lot of assuming on your end. Plus pretty sure Aelis is right.

He said it was a nonissue to him, not that he endorses it or condones it. He never said he was "pro-cheating". I happen to know The Silver Marches does not make use of this. Out of the server admins out there, I have no issues with the staff of TSM and most of them seem more than fair and good people all round.

Eh, well, he agreed with the pro-cheater SHOVA. Let's assume for a minute he's not a troll, for the purpose of this situation. He probably is pro-cheating because of his agreement with SHOVA, who is very explicitly pro-cheating, but even if he isn't, he has most definitely shown that he is not against cheating. And, in my book, that's almost as bad. Being ambivalent towards cheating allows cheaters to prosper.

Pro cheating is a bit harsh, I mearly stated that there was no fudging player count rule from gamespy, or from Bio-ware. Since there is no clear rule against the action, it isn't trechnicaly cheating. You may hate it, others may not like it, I don't really care one way, or the other as I do not play there. My reason for responding at all was due to the tone of its against the rules posted by some of the newer, and lets face it, uninformed folks. Eventualy the new people will learn that this game is about freedom to play how you want, and when you do, you will understand how silly it has been, to try and tell others how they should do things.


Any of you new people who do not agree with my veiwpoint are welcome to report me to the mods. Your likely to get a answer from them, that this is a discussion place, and all views, not just the ones you like are welcome. One of the shall we say most vocal has stated that they have reported these servers to gamespy and Bio. Good for you. When and if Bio, or Gamespy actualy do something about it, then we shall see if it is a big deal, or a non-issue. My money is on non-issue. The reason being, and I know you won't like it, but anyway, even if Bio, or gamespy take them down, they can just reload them from a new host. Bio will not want to police the servers, mater of fact, they are hosted on gamespy for that very reason. Gamespy doesn't want to police them either, it says so in their rules. hence the non-issue stance that us old-time heavy hitting veteran, take. We have known all along, that Bio, and gamespy are not into the police state.

As for my personal stance on actual cheating, I do not do it, like it, or allow it in my hosted games. NWN being as it is out of the box too great scripting to make sure the more flagrant forms can't happen. Muleing, twinking and the like. Griefing can be problematic of course but also eventualy those that do it tend to move on.

[A_Julian]

TSMDude wrote...

Yes hundereds and thousands who played the game before 2002...even though the game was released June of 2002 but hey...your probally right.

I did not say before 2002. I said since 2002.