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Some criticisms, hopefully constructive (caution: end-of-game spoilers)


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#1
DigiFluid

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Reposting from the General forum, because apparently the "Dragon Age II General Discussion" forum is not the right place to discuss general points on the game lol




I finished the game tonight, after about 38.5 hours.  I was....maybe a little disappointed in that, since it took me about 70 to beat Origins.  But at the same time, with so many games being ludicrously short these days (I was not impressed when I finished The Force Unleashed II in five hours), a replayable game in the neighbourhood of 40 hours is actually a pretty nice change of pace.

The story itself was a lot of fun.  I very much enjoyed that Bioware was bold enough to step away from 'generic RPG hero saves world from apocalyptic threat x' and try something different.  A multi-year story in the same setting, with unfolding stories and consequences for your actions within those confines is something relatively unseen the genre and I applaud Bioware's bravery in this respect.  And though there seems to be an inordinate amount of whining on this forum, I think it was a pretty exciting story.

But to step out of my Bioware fanboi comfort zone, I think there are quite a number of things in DA2 which....well, demand improvement.  A number of them are things that can (and very well may) be improved in patches, while others are design choices which I thought really just didn't work out and translated into some experiences less satisfying than their analogues in DAO/DAA.  That's really the point of this post, so I'll get on with that rather than continuing to heap praise on Bioware:

Probably Patchable
"Press Any Key" -- This inexplicable screen that comes up when you first launch the game, why is it even there?  It's kind of an absurd, unnecessary step before getting to the game's main menu that really accomplishes nothing.  It's not even like it's a placeholder screen so you can quit without logging in or loading anything; pressing any key just goes to the main menu.  There's just no reason for it.

Minimap Hover -- I like the in-game minimap, and I like how it has the indicators on it for missions.  What I don't like, however, is that you can't hover over the indicators to find out which missions they are.  Having to pop up the main map in order to do this is another unnecessary step in the game that I'd think would be quite easy to fix.

World Map Locations -- Why aren't all the locations you discover accessible from the World Map?  I can understand wanting people to explore the main areas of Kirkwall, but that so many minor locations are added to it as you go along (obvious example: companion houses) really begs the question of why all the places you can get into aren't added to the world map (the Ferelden store, for example).

Sub-point #1 on this same topic: completed areas aren't on the World Map either.  The Foundry and a number of other places just disappear, never to be accessible again once you're done with them.  I found that it made things feel a bit restricted.  Even if there's nothing to find, why can't I go back to (for example) the Foundry if I feel like it?  And things like that aren't the only ones--why does Gemlen's house disappear from the world map after a while?  If it was already on the World Map, and I can still access it the slow way, why take it completely off the World Map?

Sub-point #2 on this same topic: the Templar Hall.  What the heck.  It's a pretty important part of the game come Act 3, so what's with making me go for a jog through the Gallows to get to it?  Couldn't it have just been added to the World Map, either as a 'main area' or an ancillary area a la The Hanged Man?

Enemy Targeting -- Good lord, how did this get past the game testing phase without anyone raising any red flags?  In Origins, selecting a target was easy--just click anywhere on the target's model.  In DA2 this seems to be no longer the case.  For some reason you can't just click on the models anymore, in many cases you have to wander your mouse around the screen until you find the magic spot that the game has deemed the target visible.  It's bizarre and, at times, incredibly frustrating.

Combat Actions -- Related to my previous point.  But what's going on with the friendly AI in this game?  People in your squad have a knack for deciding they're going to stand around and do nothing, should a friendly block their line of sight to the target.  It doesn't happen all the time I'll admit, but it happens often enough that it's noticeable and a bit aggravating (particularly when fighting tougher enemies).

Isabela Bug in the Orsino Battle -- I have no idea what caused this, but I wanted to mention it anyway.  There's a pretty big bug in the fight with demonized Orsino involving NPC-controlled Isabela.  When I was doing it,something triggered either some corpses, her, or both to spawn in the foggy area way down below the platform, outside of the accessible area.  My squad literally had to just wait around until she was able to kill them, before the scene could continue.

Banter Interrupts -- I like the banter between my squadmates.  It's fun to hear what they have to say even when it isn't really affecting the game in any way.  So as a habitual quick-saver, it bugs the living hell out of me that quicksaving stops the banter dialogue.  It's annoying, it's jarring, and it really needs to be fixed.  Oh, and having rogues get interrupted midway through telling you that opening a chest is easy, to open the chest....and then having the line continue after you've taken the items, is also really bizarre.


Questionable Design Choices --
The sort of things which probably aren't correctable shy of using a new engine.

Equipped Item Clipping/Bad Placement -- This is a problem that's by no means limited to Dragon Age; it's actually quite common in a great many titles.  But I was still hoping to see it fixed here.  I'm talking about strange, illusion-breaking problems like armour clipping through itself, swords clipping in characters' backs, that sort of thing.  There's also some really strange ones that I can't figure how they got past QA, like Isabela's daggers floating 6 inches away from her back.  I can't believe nobody noticed that.

Charm/Intimidate -- Hey!  Where the hell did my Charm/Intimidate dialogue options go?  They were a ton of fun in DAO/DAA and other titles like Mass Effect, and the last big Bioware title (ME2) even went so far as to introduce a conversation-interrupting variant on Charm/Intimidate.  So where the hell is it in DA2?  I really like the dialogue wheel, but that's no reason to limit my options to understanding, smartass, and a-hole.

Teleporting Magic-Users -- What.  The.  Hell.  I'm pretty damn sure that one of the magic codex entries in DAO said that magic didn't enable anyone to instantly travel anywhere.  So why are Qunari mages and Arcane Horrors teleporting around the battlefield during combat?  This is not challenging, this is annoying.  And on top of annoying, it defies a rule of the game universe that was established in the previous title.


General Oddities
Fenris' House -- Why is the place never cleaned up?  Seriously....he's there for like 9 years, and he can't even be bothered to pick up a book that fell on the floor?  To say nothing of the corpses that are still laying around after all that time!

Post-Dalish -- Nobody in Kirkwall seems to care after you've slaughtered the entire Dalish clan outside the city.  I know Elves aren't well liked in this universe, but you'd think that somebody might be slightly concerned that a massacre happened so close to the city.

Merrill's Quest -- Unless I missed something entirely, this quest just ends with no resolution.  She makes the mirror, gets the stuff for it, we go fight the demon so she can finish it and then....nothing?  What kind of payoff is that?

Alistair and the Warden -- The save file I imported had made Alistair king in DAO, completed Awakening, and gone with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt.  Why then does Alistair comment that he's due back in Ferelden soon?  I'm willing to accept that it might be part of a larger story we haven't yet seen (given the ending of this game), but it was still eyebrow-raising.

Isabela and Hawke? -- I finished this game having romanced (and completed the romance with) Merrill.  So in the end-game cutscene, why does Varric tell the nice Chantry lady (;)) that everyone but Isabela left him in the eventually?  Again, I can understand if this is part of the story still waiting to be told, but I found it really strange after getting the 'romance completed' achievement like 20 minutes before seeing this.

Modifié par DigiFluid, 14 mars 2011 - 05:00 .


#2
DrunkDave89

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On the last point, i believe it's tied to whether or not you told isabella you'd join her once she gets a ship. It's definitely not the only option, as you can quite easily never meet her, and or/let her die/have her never come back after she skips town.

#3
kaisuki

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Honestly, I think the nice Chantry lady was way better (read: hotter) than any of the other females you could romance in the game.

Make her a romance option in DA3 please =)

But a good summation of some of the problems in DA2.

#4
DigiFluid

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DrunkDave89 wrote...

On the last point, i believe it's tied to whether or not you told isabella you'd join her once she gets a ship. It's definitely not the only option, as you can quite easily never meet her, and or/let her die/have her never come back after she skips town.


Oh!  That's interesting, I didn't realize that part.  Still seems odd, but at least it's an explanation!

#5
uriel256

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I think the Isabel comment is part of a glitch.
http://social.biowar...index/6505817/1
There's a thread where several people have mentioned oddities in their final summary from Varric.

Some of your oddities can be explained with the following: Fenris is a horrible slob and that's not the same book on the floor as was there seven years ago. As the Dalish are isolationists, it's entirely possible that the people of Kirkwall just wouldn't really interact with them much and might assume that they finally moved on rather than checking on them and finding a heap of bodies. Merrill, having gained no new information because she intended to talk to the demon rather than kill it, just has a useless hunk of metal and glass in her house that stands as a reminder that she KILLED EVERYONE SHE EVER KNEW except Hawke and the party. I don't think she wants to talk about it. Though I really wish we could have that conversation, because seriously, there's some big talking points that should be addressed especially if Hawke and Merrill are actually close.

And then while the game checks your Witch Hunt save file for info, it doesn't actually do anything with it currently. Presumably an xpac or dlc will actually reference your warden's choices with Morrigan and maybe then we'll get some resolution to Merrill's quest while they're at it.

Edit: Also, I think the teleporters are supposed to be understood as invisibility or obfuscation effects.  None of them instantly travel across the battlefield.  They become untargetable for a certain amount of time and then reappear.  I would say that they aren't teleporting, especially because the assassin's commit similar effects.

Some of the technical issues you bring up seem to be a function of the game being multi-platform. The consoles auto-target since you can't click on anything and don't have the minimap functionality you want because there's no cursor.  These are things that they really should look into fixing for the PC, but I can understand how it might have slipped through testing.

I do miss the charm/intimidate options, especially when compared to where they ended up with ME2.  With the alteration of the dialogue mode, I was really hoping that we'd get some of those interrupt options available during conversations.

On the accessibility of world areas aspect, I think I would be more understanding of closing up certain areas after their quests were completed if the world changed significantly when the acts changed.  Personally, I was disappointed that the city didn't develop and change over the course of time in the game.

Modifié par uriel256, 14 mars 2011 - 08:36 .


#6
DigiFluid

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uriel256 wrote...

Personally, I was disappointed that the city didn't develop and change over the course of time in the game.


I was a bit disappointed with that too.  From the pre-release buzz I'd kind of gotten the impression that we'd see the city evolve a bit over the game's span, but all that really came of that was the statue that shows up in Act 3 =\\

#7
ProjectToaster

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DigiFluid wrote...
Alistair and the Warden -- The save file I imported had made Alistair king in DAO, completed Awakening, and gone with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt.  Why then does Alistair comment that he's due back in Ferelden soon?  I'm willing to accept that it might be part of a larger story we haven't yet seen (given the ending of this game), but it was still eyebrow-raising.


Alistair wasn't with you when you went through the Eluvian so in fairness he wouldn't know. :P

#8
NarayanNL

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The targetting was quite annoying overall especially when using aoe spells. Why do you need to target someone with an aoe I prefer just casting it where it will have the best effect.

#9
Rm80

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I just want to make a comment of some of your points

DigiFluid wrote...



Banter Interrupts -- I like the banter between my squadmates.  It's fun to hear what they have to say even when it isn't really affecting the game in any way.  So as a habitual quick-saver, it bugs the living hell out of me that quicksaving stops the banter dialogue.  It's annoying, it's jarring, and it really needs to be fixed.  Oh, and having rogues get interrupted midway through telling you that opening a chest is easy, to open the chest....and then having the line continue after you've taken the items, is also really bizarre.


Well I agree that It can be really annoying to miss the banter I stop touching the keyboard as soon as any companion open their mouth, just so I don't miss anything.






Merrill's Quest -- Unless I missed something entirely, this quest just ends with no resolution.  She makes the mirror, gets the stuff for it, we go fight the demon so she can finish it and then....nothing?  What kind of payoff is that?


I think this is a bug, Before you do Merrill quest you can find her crying that she killed her clan so I believe there is a resolution to her quest but it comes before the you do the quest


Isabela and Hawke? -- I finished this game having romanced (and completed the romance with) Merrill.  So in the end-game cutscene, why does Varric tell the nice Chantry lady (;)) that everyone but Isabela left him in the eventually?  Again, I can understand if this is part of the story still waiting to be told, but I found it really strange after getting the 'romance completed' achievement like 20 minutes before seeing this.


Someone already said it but I believe it is like that because you promise Isabella to join her on the ship

Modifié par Rm80, 14 mars 2011 - 07:37 .


#10
allthatufear8

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Some thoughts of mine.
- I understand that this is a new game, but I didn't see how my saved game affected the game. If anything, it felt like there was a canonical storyline that the game heeded to no matter what.

- I didn't like the combat. I would attack someone and after I knock a hostile back, my character would stop attacking them. I was confused whether we a re using KOTOR's combat system or a hack a slash system. I know Fable and Oblivion are hack and slash games. I'm no sure about DA2.

- I hated the waves of troops and how they would rappel into combat like Green Berets. I liked the ideal of the 20 people in the room I have to fight are there at once rather than the game pull hostiles out of its behind.

- The romance was meh. I think its been covered already.

- The environment was much improved over the first game, but the characters didn't look that great. Hawk looked the best and everyone else were generated from the same pallet of features. How many times do I have the see the same person with the same hairstyle but a different color. The Witcher was bad at this too.

- I didn't like being forced to pick sides and the endings were terrible. No matter what, I lost and I didn't feel like I accomplished anything. Everyone fell apart and all of the mages turned into blood mages.

- I hated having the find the correct spot to click to select something or fight an enemy.

- I hate how I don't see my achievements or character on this site but I see everything from the first Dragon Age.

- Please make a 64-bit executable for 64-bit systems. Few games actually have done this.

Modifié par allthatufear8, 14 mars 2011 - 08:06 .