22 réponses à ce sujet

[LeandraNyx]

I know what you mean... I played a mage and romanced Anders, so I was very pro-mage for the entire story, but by the end it seemed like there was an abombination around every corner. I was like, damn, maybe we do deserve to be locked up!  Though of course I still supported the mages in the end...

Modifié par LeandraNyx, 14 mars 2011 - 05:18 .

[TJPags]

I know exactly what you mean.

Blood mages were running around attacking people in the streets, every time you turned around on a quest there were mages attacking you. Was really ready to help Meredith lock them down.

Then Anders went nuclear, and Meredith wanted to Annul the Circle in response, rather than arresting him. Changed my mind on the spot.

[R-F]

There's also tons of reasons to hate the Templars. The Mages are reacting to Templar rule, and the Templars are reacting to the Mages. Its an awful cycle.

[Haristo]

I wanted to be Pro-Mage like my Warden... but it just doesn't fit for Hawke. too much bad mages, too much Blood Mages, to much killing sprees and ****s.

next Walkthough, I'll slay those sons of ****es, the Right of Annulment will be respected !

[Evil Asch]

Yeah I definitely agree. I started replaying DA:O 'cause I got the ultimate edition (I tried to get awakenings only as I already have some of the DLCs but the local Gamestop had the awakenings case in the used section but only had the ultimate edition so they gave me a deal) and I'm amazed at how casual Ferelden seems to be toward blood mages/maleficarum compared to Kirkwall. Kirkwall is eagle eyed and iron fisted regarding their mages and apparently they're justified in that. The question is was Kirkwall this way *before* Meredith came to power and started cracking down on Mages or was that the status quo?

[OmegaBlue0231]

TJPags wrote...

I know exactly what you mean.

Blood mages were running around attacking people in the streets, every time you turned around on a quest there were mages attacking you. Was really ready to help Meredith lock them down.

Then Anders went nuclear, and Meredith wanted to Annul the Circle in response, rather than arresting him. Changed my mind on the spot.

Meredith overrides most mage hate.

[dragonmack]

Yeah, it was a vicious cycle of a repressive Templar regime forcing mages to feel like they had to go to the extreme of blood magic to fight back or gain some freedom, which led to even more repression from the Templars, which led to more extreme mage acts, etc. And of course none of the leaders were even willing to listen to any kind of reasonable solution or compromise. That part of the overall story felt really forced to me in that even though they give you dialogue options to play peacemaker, essentially its meaningless.

[Evil Asch]

dragonmack wrote...
That part of the overall story felt really forced to me in that even though they give you dialogue options to play peacemaker, essentially its meaningless.

Yeahhhh I don't mind that this was more restricted and linear than DA:O as it's clearly setting up the third game or DLCS. That said,  I resent offering dialogue choices that imply a diplomatic or neutral solution and then forcing a decision. My second playthrough I am certainly choosing one side or the other from the get go. Being neutral or attempting to be only resulted in frustration and headaches.

For example, trying to spy on the midnight meeting of mages and ending up wiping out like a dozen mages and at least that many templar conspirators 'cause they wouldn't listen and Hawke can't be sneaky? That sucked.

Most of the rest of the dead end/hard choices were presented better and justified. The above was the only time I wanted to smack tptb in the head or choke a mage for being an idiot.

[Sonris89]

I don't think we got to see alot of templars gone wrong. If I saw them forcing mages tranquil or beating mages or killing them for no reason then it would be an even harder choice.

[rma2110]

I understand the mages plight and the templars are horrible, but does every mage have to turn to demons and blood magic? It just makes the templar's action seem more justified *sigh*

My Warrior sided with the templars as soon as Anders took away the only chance for peace. I wanted to save as many civilian lives as possible.

[graciegrace]

I agree, I felt like this game really showed off how dangerous mages can be.

I wish there was a way to peacefully resolve the situation in Kirkwall though, but god damn Anders

[AtreiyaN7]

But the mages would never have been dangerous if Meredith weren't an insane control freak who forced them to endure worse and worse treatment year after year. Didn't Evelina turn herself in to the Kirkwall Circle after fleeing Ferelden? The woman tried to save ORPHANS for the Maker's sake. Meredith and her harsh treatment of the mages was directly responsible for turning a nice woman into a monster. I will side with the mages every time. And the Alrik thing...that shows how bad some templars can be in abusing their power.

[Evil Asch]

True at the same time if it were *just* Meredith then why did the other circles also rebel? Meredith was a symptom of a flawed system. Someone like Cullen would be a far better choice as Knight Commander yet how many Cullens are out there vs Merediths? The system creates both but seems skewed toward the creation of Meredith's type.

The system itself is flawed there need to be more checks and balances in place with a third party as final arbiter. The Chantry mother refused to choose a side in Kirkwall, if she *had* gotten involved perhaps she could have rooted out Meredith's addiction or dependence on the modified idol or at least brokered a truce between the mages and templars.

A secular agency with final say over the templars and the mages ought to be created with the goal of brokering a peace between them. It could create courts and appeals processes so that templars and mages with mundane concerns or disagreements could be heard and decided upon while keeping the templars and their duty intact.

[Red Templar]

rma2110 wrote...

I understand the mages plight and the templars are horrible, but does every mage have to turn to demons and blood magic? It just makes the templar's action seem more justified *sigh*

That is really the whole point. In many ways the templars are justified. If they weren't, this would just be a black-and-white case of bad guys oppressing good guys.

The fact that the mages in Kirkwall were so corrupt and depraved helped make Meredith more compelling to me. A bit of a tragic villain. Sure she was crazy and possessed and paranoid... but she wasn't completely wrong either. Orsino certainly wasn't what he pretended to be.

[trembli0s]

ashthehorrorfan wrote...

Yeah I definitely agree. I started replaying DA:O 'cause I got the ultimate edition (I tried to get awakenings only as I already have some of the DLCs but the local Gamestop had the awakenings case in the used section but only had the ultimate edition so they gave me a deal) and I'm amazed at how casual Ferelden seems to be toward blood mages/maleficarum compared to Kirkwall. Kirkwall is eagle eyed and iron fisted regarding their mages and apparently they're justified in that. The question is was Kirkwall this way *before* Meredith came to power and started cracking down on Mages or was that the status quo?

There's codex pages throughout the game that explain why blood mages are so prevalent in Kirkwall. 

Apparently Tevinter had huge blood sacrifices there for hundreds of years and the fade is really weak, allowing for a lot of demons to gain easy influence. Results are that the percentages for mages who fail their Harrowing or turn to blood magic are double those of nearby cities. Probably for that reason the Templars have always been more militant... which in turn leads to more blood mages and you get a vicious cycle.

[Rhayth]

Well because of DA1 you kinda already got the idea that Templars were either bullies who loved their job or decent people trying to make the best out of the job...in this one though because of the family either your sis being a mage or you being a mage, and Meredith going idol psycho they had to give ample reason for you to want to side with the Templars reasonably...at least thats what I felt about it

[Failbox]

Hey guys, remember that one quest where you encounter a mage and it turns out that the mage is an abomination/uses blood magic?

That one is my favorite.

Modifié par Failbox, 14 mars 2011 - 10:29 .

[Layn]

i loved it this way. the templars drove mages to blood magic, which drove templars to take more drastic measures which drove more mages to blood magic, and so on. It was brilliant.
i loved how hard it was to agree with anyone, since one side was being too controlling, and the other kept doing things that almost makes you want to agree with the first group. felt realistic too and it was great trying to keep peace between both while everything was getting more and more out of control.

this becomes all more tragic by being a mage and romancing Anders. Btw. i hope when he reappered after having told him to get lost and this time told him to fight alongside me (but not in my team) the game didn't assume that i'm now okay with what he did.

[Icy Magebane]

I played as a mage, and the only reason I sided with them is because I didn't trust Meredith not to just kill me once all was said and done. I don't remember seeing even one good mage the whole game. The entire presentation of this issue was rather lopsided.

[Algus]

I don't know if they were trying to make it look like both sides had their advantages or what but I walked away from the game thinking "Wow, all mages and templar are horrible"

I was very surprised/disappointed with the First Enchanter after I sided with the mages. Did not see that coming.

It must be the way I play these games because my first Origins playthrough was really depressing too

[Stormghost]

I completely agree.  I was pro-mage for the first part of the game, mainly because of Bethany being with me and her fear of being caught my the templars just for the magic she was born with.  But as the game progressed, it was difficult to ignore the fact that blood mages seemed to be everywhere, and almost every time you fight a mage they summon shades and demons.  In the end I sided with the templars, and I would have been quite happy with Meredith flushing the mages out of the city but she suddenly turned on me for no apparent reason.

[LobselVith8]

There was good and bad with both groups. You had templars who were turning mages into "Templar puppets," you had abuse and rape of mages by Templars, you stopped a group of templars when one was vocally saying how he would rape the Mage when he would make her tranquil, and the plight of mages was essentially slavery (and referenced as such). There was no group wearing a white or black hat in the story, and I applaud the creators for giving us such diverse groups.