231 réponses à ce sujet

[Godeshus]

Please no flaming. Let's try and keep this mature and civilized or it'll just end up being closed again.

I believe this is an important topic that needs to be discussed. Not discussed because Bioware needs to know what people want but discussed because I feel the users need to share ideas.


My own thoughts and reasons for this thread.

1.Those who dislike seeing the homosexual content need to understand that it is important for the gay community to be represented.

2.Those in favor of the homosexual content need to understand cultural differences, and that calling someone an 'inbred retarded goat kisser' because they are uncomfortable with the content does not really accomplish anything positive.

My own opinon:

I think it's important for homosexual content to be a part of the game, not an option, because it helps to desensitize those who do not have the opportunity to be exposed to it, as well as sending a message out that everyone is important in our society regardless of age, sex, color, or orientation.  I'm a hetero male who lives in Montreal, Canada, and we have an extensive gay community. When you see gay people and interact with homosexuals on practically a daily basis it becomes a non-issue, as it should be. We shouldn't feel uncomfortable by the idea of homosexuality. To me a sexual preference is like a color preference. It doesn't change my opinion on anything at all if someone says they prefer blue to red. I really couldn't care at all until someone starts to tell me what I should prefer. That's when it gets ugly.

/discuss

PS I reiterate let's try and keep it civilized. I'd be interested in hearing the argument for removal of gay content or making it an option.

Modifié par Godeshus, 14 mars 2011 - 08:46 .

[-leadintea-]

I'm gay, but I dislike the "everyone is bi" route they went with this game. If it works for everyone else, that's fine but I'm not a huge fan of it.

[stu117]

I think i should be able to have male friends without them trying to be gay with me =/ and then losing friendship because of it but i guess thats what varric is for

[Cazlee]

My opinion is that the player should be the one to make the first move. The hearts make it obvious enough that flirting and maybe a romance is possible.

Modifié par Cazlee, 14 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[NotFrom4chan]

The reason this is such an issue is that there is a clear penalty for not partaking in homosexuality in DA2. There is an implied value judgment when my choices end in a negative result. THAT is someone telling me what I should prefer.

[Virginelfs]

Stanley Woo


/thread

[NotFrom4chan]

Also, doesn't anyone find it strange that there wasn't a media outcry about this? When I first heard about the abundance of man on man fondness I assumed it was a cheap way to grab attention for the game, since homosexuality (fantastic though it is) is a controversial issue. But there hasn't been as much as a peep. Maybe the conservatives are correct and the media really is Liberal?

[Godeshus]

NotFrom4chan wrote...

The reason this is such an issue is that there is a clear penalty for not partaking in homosexuality in DA2. There is an implied value judgment when my choices end in a negative result. THAT is someone telling me what I should prefer.

You see personally I view this as weighing pros/cons. The beauty of RPG's is that the better ones, like The Witcher, mimic real life choices where it's not always black and white.

You are presented with choices, but no matter what choice you pick there is going to be a negative consequence somewhere, usually, and that is something that we encounter in our daily lives.

[Perles75]

Thunderbringer wrote...

I'm gay, but I dislike the "everyone is bi" route they went with this game. If it works for everyone else, that's fine but I'm not a huge fan of it.

From what I understood, that's actually not true. For example Anders is gay if you play with a male Hawke (in the sense that you can pursue a romance with him if you want) and straight with a female Hawke, so it's not bi at all.
I don't know the others.

[NotFrom4chan]

Godeshus wrote...

NotFrom4chan wrote...

The reason this is such an issue is that there is a clear penalty for not partaking in homosexuality in DA2. There is an implied value judgment when my choices end in a negative result. THAT is someone telling me what I should prefer.

You see personally I view this as weighing pros/cons. The beauty of RPG's is that the better ones, like The Witcher, mimic real life choices where it's not always black and white.

You are presented with choices, but no matter what choice you pick there is going to be a negative consequence somewhere, usually, and that is something that we encounter in our daily lives.

I agree with you in principle, but is "Hey brah, wanna have some naughty man on man time?" really the kind of weighty pertinent choice that belongs in RPGs? You could make the argument that RPGs should allow for a spectrum of choices and consequences but this particular choice does seem an odd one to me.

[Godeshus]

I don't know I think Bioware tend to involve a lot of touch decisions in their games. I in ME2 there is a choice with one of your characters (don't want to spoil in case you haven't played it) that had me staring at the screen for about 30 minutes. I just had to think so hard on what to do, because even though the consequences of the choice itself were no big deal, the nature of the moral dillema was really really interesting to me.

Many such occaisions, albeit a little less potent, have been presented to me in Bioware's games. I guess I'm just a live and let live kind of guy. If a gay guy hits on me I just say no thanks. Been walking to work from the metro for 3 years now and for those 3 years the same hookers have been asking me every single night if I want company. It doesn't bother me that they ask, or that they're there. Their presence does not affect me negatively or positively. I guess I feel the same way about homosexuality.

[Paladin Lil Pup]

Godeshus wrote...

1.Those who dislike seeing the homosexual content need to understand that it is important for the gay community to be represented.

See I have a problem with this line... you're making it looks like EA do it support to gay community.  Please don't give kudos where it is not due.  EA is a mass-market profit first company... as such their first target is to make the game reachable to the larger audience.  While it's understandable for EA trying to reach same-sex community to sell more of their product I don't believe they do it for reason that's more than economics.  

As far as gay content is concern though, it doesn't really matter to me... it's there, people that would like their character to pursue romantic course with like gender can while the ones that want to do it with opposite gender can too...

Modifié par Paladin Lil Pup, 14 mars 2011 - 09:29 .

[elecmanexe001]

Thunderbringer wrote...

I dislike the "everyone is bi" route they went with this game. If it works for everyone else, that's fine but I'm not a huge fan of it.

This pretty much, but also mentioned elsewhere before how its easy for the boy love to get started but much harder with the women.

[Aurgelmir]

I'm fine with gay content, but why are there no straight-straight relationships in the game? most relationships are like that yet all the romance options in the game are bi? I think in DA2 they've taken it too far.

[mesmerizedish]

elecmanexe001 wrote...

Thunderbringer wrote...

I dislike the "everyone is bi" route they went with this game. If it works for everyone else, that's fine but I'm not a huge fan of it.

This pretty much, but also mentioned elsewhere before how its easy for the boy love to get started but much harder with the women.

Yup. It's just as hard for us lesbians as it is for you straight guys.

[The Lesser Evil]

elecmanexe001 wrote...
This pretty much, but also mentioned elsewhere before how its easy for the boy love to get started but much harder with the women.

I blinked at Isabela once, then found her at my place ready for a roll in the sack. And that was with a Hawke that had no real intention to romance her since he was aiming for Anders.

...which of course didn't stop Hawke from sleeping with her still, but hey. It's not hard. Get your friendship up, do a quest for them, and it's sexy times. This is consistent for all love interests, there's no double standard where gay options are easier to achieve.

Aurgelmir wrote...

I'm fine with gay content, but why are
there no straight-straight relationships in the game? most relationships
are like that yet all the romance options in the game are bi? I think
in DA2 they've taken it too far.

Sebastian isn't an option for men. I know he's DLC, so he might not count in your eyes, but he's there.

Modifié par The Lesser Evil, 14 mars 2011 - 09:36 .

[Gary the Gnu]

Since I'm not homosex, I didn't enjoy the homosex put into the game. Money wasted if you ask me. It could have been streamlined out of the game and maybe we could have had less rehashing of areas.

[CLime]

I was a bit surprised that all four love interests can swing either way (Sebastian notwithstanding, I suppose), but in a good way. I could imagine someone being bothered by it, but I could also imagine that person as being an intolerant whiner.

Then again, maybe Hawke is just an exception for everybody. Nothing wrong with that either.

Modifié par CLime, 14 mars 2011 - 09:40 .

[mesmerizedish]

Gary the Gnu wrote...

Since I'm not homosex, I didn't enjoy the homosex put into the game. Money wasted if you ask me. It could have been streamlined out of the game and maybe we could have had less rehashing of areas.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not

[doubledeviant]

I don't know about this game yet (currently playing), but in Origins a player couldn't get every achievement without being either gay or at least playing a character of the opposite sex. I found this irritating as it could have been easily avoided by having a simple "romanced any character" achievement instead of seperate achievements for each romanceable character.

[NotFrom4chan]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

Thunderbringer wrote...

I dislike the "everyone is bi" route they went with this game. If it works for everyone else, that's fine but I'm not a huge fan of it.

This pretty much, but also mentioned elsewhere before how its easy for the boy love to get started but much harder with the women.

Yup. It's just as hard for us lesbians as it is for you straight guys.

Honest question since I didn't have the wisdom to try this myself, could women romance morrigan in DA:O?

[Waage25]

MY problem is that the GAY options is always girly gays or Emo gays.

WHERE IS THE LOVE FOR BEAR GAYS!!!

[mesmerizedish]

NotFrom4chan wrote...

Honest question since I didn't have the wisdom to try this myself, could women romance morrigan in DA:O?

No, Morrigan and Alistair were both straight, while Zevran and Leliana were bi.

Waage25 wrote...

MY problem is that the GAY options is always girly gays or Emo gays.

WHERE IS THE LOVE FOR BEAR GAYS!!!

Karl was a bear [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 14 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Aven]

Godeshus wrote...

I don't know I think Bioware tend to involve a lot of touch decisions in their games. I in ME2 there is a choice with one of your characters (don't want to spoil in case you haven't played it) that had me staring at the screen for about 30 minutes. I just had to think so hard on what to do, because even though the consequences of the choice itself were no big deal, the nature of the moral dillema was really really interesting to me.

Many such occaisions, albeit a little less potent, have been presented to me in Bioware's games. I guess I'm just a live and let live kind of guy. If a gay guy hits on me I just say no thanks. Been walking to work from the metro for 3 years now and for those 3 years the same hookers have been asking me every single night if I want company. It doesn't bother me that they ask, or that they're there. Their presence does not affect me negatively or positively. I guess I feel the same way about homosexuality.

This is a nice way of putting it
I think your op is well written as well and I will follow this thread (crossed fingers for no derailing)

It is very hard to implement into a game without someone disagreeing with how it's done though.
People considering all the love interests bisexual because they have the option to romance them, and don't approve of this generalisation across all the potential characters. 

Having a definate homosexual romance only character leads to other problems. (people would want straight relations with the char/people do not approve of the character at all) and it would lead to a bunch of issues if the gay character was feminine while the straight guys were not (or the other way around)

Having the option to turn homosexuality off/on in the options or at game start could be looked at as offensive etc...

People have different views on how they should be able to control/steer the character development and what traits should be set in stone.

I am a bit like you, I all for having options. (While also simply having the option to turn them down) or like someone said earlier in the thread, let the player be in charge of starting any romance subplots.

Modifié par Aven, 14 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

I do think it's only fair to give content that appeals to the gay audience as well. I am not bothered by it, nor am I so selfish as to think that if it is not aimed at me, it should not be in the game. I was surprcied by an advance made by a male companion on my male protagonist, but more in the "Wow, Bioware's showing some balls in doing this" fashion than the "I am offended" fashion.

What do you do in real life if someone of your own gender makes a cautious advance on you? In the couple of times it's happened to me, I've taken it as a compliment, thanked them, and told them that alas, I am straight. That, I think is how you should take it - after all, they wouldn't be making an advance on you unless they thought that you were attractive or interesting in some way.