231 réponses à ce sujet

[TelexFerra]

Cazlee wrote...

My opinion is that the player should be the one to make the first move. The hearts make it obvious enough that flirting and maybe a romance is possible.

[GregoriusMaximus]

Gary the Gnu wrote...

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Bestiality... and your argument is reductio ad absurdum, bestiality has no connection to this discussion. Bestiality is illegal, many countries make it illegal for media to portray bestiality or paedophilia; so they are prevented from putting this in. I admit, it would be hilarious in the extreme if there was bestiality, but again this is an entirely different subject.

I bet sucking a penis or bum shagging in public is illegal too. isn't it?

Another brilliantly logical leap... It's not illegal to portray those things in media; neither are they themselves illegal in a lot of places.

Well, that and neither of those things were in Dragon Age 2... but I suppose you have a Gnu's brain so...

Modifié par GregoriusMaximus, 14 mars 2011 - 10:38 .

[Godeshus]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Gary the Gnu wrote...

Godeshus wrote...

And that was a time on earth when homosexuality was much more accepted than it is today.

So was beastiality, but it isn't properly represented in this game, is it?

/edit
*bestiality (sp)?

Bestiality... and your argument is reductio ad absurdum, bestiality has no connection to this discussion. Bestiality is illegal, many countries make it illegal for media to portray bestiality or paedophilia; so they are prevented from putting this in. I admit, it would be hilarious in the extreme if there was bestiality, but again this is an entirely different subject.

But if the option was written into your character, all of the companions could be a LI, but the game in general would be geared more towards your orientation choice. I could picture one gay man and one gay woman in the party, while the rest of the characters swing based on what you choose at character creation. So if you chose a homosexual then the men would be potential LI and the women not. But if you chose hetero then the opposite would be the case. I think this is fair.

[GregoriusMaximus]

Again, read what I wrote earlier:

The reason they have an all-bi character cast is that they couldn't be ****ed to write new plotlines for male/female Hawke (NOT as some are saying, because of some "homosexual agenda").

[Tripedius]

Perles75 wrote...

Godeshus wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

It's a gimmick and it feels as such too much. Homosexuality doesn't seem to be a part of in game society except in the brothel, where you can order a male or a female. Also it is kind of akward when your male party members make remarks towards you and or react badly cause of not swinging that way. Maybe a solution is to add sexual preference to character creation and thus making it an integral part of someones character and not something that's open for everyone to just try and experience.

I think this is one of the smartest things posted on the subject, and really hope Bioware listens to this.

it's smart because it allows people to customize their character, rather than the game, making it a more presonal choice.

The problem is actually more practical... if you restrict the choice of LIs to four companions, it's already a pretty narrow limit. To cover all the possible combinations, this means that there would be only ONE LI for straight males, one for straight women, one for gays and one for lesbians.
And of course this means that people would be very unhappy because many wouldn't like the only companion they can romance.

So, if you want to get a more customizable sexuality, you HAVE to open up the number of LIs to at least double if not more. And I'm afraid this would bring to a big mess (besides, do you think they can develop 10 interesting and worth romancing characters?)

Not necessary. Game would work in exactly the same way as normal. If you could choose you sexual preferences the game could actually feel much smoother and more normal. Being gay or hetero would be an integral part of your character and it would be 'normal' for other gay men to persue you (or not). As a gay you would still have 2 romances (as it is now) equal to the number of heterosexual relations. And ofc you could also have the option of being bi which open up all relationships. I have no problem with gay content, I just have a (small) problem with the fact that it's so stand alone / akward. As said homosexuality doesn't play a role in the game, your companions don't care what you are, they try anyway (if friendly), which seems somewhat illogical to me. Don't see why it can't be in character creation as it is just as much a part of you as the color of your eyes or your gender.

[GregoriusMaximus]

Tripedius wrote...
Not necessary. Game would work in exactly the same way as normal. If you could choose you sexual preferences the game could actually feel much smoother and more normal. Being gay or hetero would be an integral part of your character and it would be 'normal' for other gay men to persue you (or not). As a gay you would still have 2 romances (as it is now) equal to the number of heterosexual relations. And ofc you could also have the option of being bi which open up all relationships. I have no problem with gay content, I just have a (small) problem with the fact that it's so stand alone / akward. As said homosexuality doesn't play a role in the game, your companions don't care what you are, they try anyway (if friendly), which seems somewhat illogical to me.

Where you live, can you tell peoples' sexuality without talking to them? :S

[Godeshus]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Again, read what I wrote earlier:

The reason they have an all-bi character cast is that they couldn't be ****ed to write new plotlines for male/female Hawke (NOT as some are saying, because of some "homosexual agenda").

I read it just fine, I just chose not to respond because it doesn't help this discussion at all. I get it. You say DA2  was a rush job and you are disappointed. You're mad and you don't like the game.

Now please move along and let us discuss the issue of homosexuality.

[Gary the Gnu]

DP.

Modifié par Gary the Gnu, 14 mars 2011 - 10:48 .

[Gary the Gnu]

Gary the Gnu wrote...

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Another brilliantly logical leap... It's not illegal to portray those things in media; neither are they themselves illegal in a lot of places.

It should be. If the Morale squad allows homosex, they should allow bestiality, possibly necrophilia. I, however draw the line at homosex and pedos.

-in a fantasy game

google sociolotron you'll love it.

oh, my brain tells me you may need to relax and not flame. like posted..

Please no flaming. Let's try and keep this mature and civilized or it'll just end up being closed again.

Modifié par Gary the Gnu, 14 mars 2011 - 10:47 .

[RohanD]

Bioware I get what you're trying to do, and it's good, but just make it a freaking option at the start of the game when you choose your gender. It is not hard to code all you have to do is a simple check against the sexual preference of the player when displaying romance options.

switch("sexualPreference")
{
case "gay":
showGayOptions();
break;
case "lesbian"
showLesbianOptions();
break;
case "bi"
showAllOptions();
break;
default:
showStraightOptions();
break;
}

I don't care about romances in games, it's sad and lame to me, but it's obviously a huge part of your appeal to a lot of people. Might as well do it right as not to ****** those people off.

Modifié par RohanD, 14 mars 2011 - 10:49 .

[GregoriusMaximus]

Gary the Gnu wrote...

It should be. If the Morale squad allows homosex, they should allow bestiality, possibly necrophilia. I, however draw the line at homosex and pedos.

What a fine, rational grasp of morality you have...

Did it not occur to you that gay men are human adults with the ability to discern and are have legal presence? That when they have sex, they are doing it of their own legal volition and it does not affect anyone outside of their party? That none of those things applies to any of the things you mentioned; and that the comparison is therefore utterly absurd?

[Steptroll]

My Hawke was in it for the ****es.
Everyone got boned.

Everyone.

Though she was the default female Hawke, so hot and also lesbian, which is allllright.

Modifié par Steptroll, 14 mars 2011 - 10:52 .

[Gary the Gnu]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

What a fine, rational grasp of morality you have...

Did it not occur to you that gay men are human adults with the ability to discern and are have legal presence? That when they have sex, they are doing it of their own legal volition and it does not affect anyone outside of their party? That none of those things applies to any of the things you mentioned; and that the comparison is therefore utterly absurd?

I will not continue this converstaion, as I can't without tearing this boards gay community to pieces, along with yourself.

I will part with this. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

[GregoriusMaximus]

Godeshus wrote...

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Again, read what I wrote earlier:

The reason they have an all-bi character cast is that they couldn't be ****ed to write new plotlines for male/female Hawke (NOT as some are saying, because of some "homosexual agenda").

I read it just fine, I just chose not to respond because it doesn't help this discussion at all. I get it. You say DA2  was a rush job and you are disappointed. You're mad and you don't like the game.

It clearly does help the discussion, as it provides a far more sensible
and rational reason for the bisexuality of the characters than "ooooh it's all part of the homosexual agenda, Bioware are being PC and forcing homosexuality down our throats" :/

Ockham's razor tells us that "they rushed the game" (confirmed by the facts of its timeline and word from people who worked on it) makes more sense than some insane conspiracy theory about homosexual lobbyists.

[malakian]

Firstly, to respond to Gary the Gnu's mad rhetorical questions, no, it's not the same as bestiality as one is with a consensual person of the same sex and one is with an animal. Secondly, public anal or oral sex wasn't so permissible with a woman last time I checked.

To everyone else with a functioning brain, I think it's silly to polarise it into 'people who like it there/people who don't' considering that it's a choice to make. You can literally press a button to dissuade them. Are the detractors worried that they'll be tempted into homosexuality or something? If you're just annoyed at the option, well, there's nothing to discuss - I'm just glad my content isn't chopped because of other people's intolerances. I think there's a hypocrisy here in that there's the option of *slightly* more morally dubious choices in the game. You know, the whole murdering thing.

Probably the most legitimate concern I've read is that a gay character may like you more if you gay about with them in conversation, but as long as there isn't content aside from the homosexual experiences chopped otherwise, that's obviously going to be a given. Missing out on a couple of bits of gay innuendoey dialogue surely wont be a concern for someone who doesn't want to be faced with the issue.

I myself always fail to see the immense concern about where other peoples sexual orientation takes them. As long as it isn't victimising, it seems like a weird and perverted concern to me. I suppose that's entrenched religious dogma for you.

Cant say for me personally it was the rollercoaster romance that Morrigan provides, but I found Zevran's mad ****tiness worth a bi-sexual second play-through.

[Hroftt]

Thunderbringer wrote...

I'm gay, but I dislike the "everyone is bi" route they went with this game.

 You must go to Church and pray, i realy pity you... 



 p.s. On the topic:

 Out of 3 male characters i can recruit now in party: 2 are gay and 1 is dwarf. I dont mind 1 being gay (i killed Zevran instead of rescue - that felt good) but not allmost all companions? Seriosly, Bioware?

Modifié par Hroftt, 14 mars 2011 - 11:08 .

[Dia2blo]

I hope this thread doesn't put Bioware off making gay relationships in the future.  I feel a hell of a lot more attached to said characters than being forced to play a straight character.

Also, I understand that most people think that gay/ straight are black and white, but as Anders says, doesn't it just count who you fall in love with?

Also what is this about being penalized for not following romantic leads? No such thing happened to me throughout the whole game! (Although I did have a lot of offers from Isabela, Fenris and Aveline; the latter even kissed me! )

I actually thought the romances (well the one i've undertaken) was brilliantly executed and well played out. I was incredibly happy with the way Bioware handled them this time around.

[Alneverus]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

The "uneasy feelings" you get are a product of your culture and your upbringing and so Americans and the occasional country bumpkin Brit (because let's face it, that's who's complaining) need to understand that the producers of DA are hardly going well out of their way in creating a game world along these lines. You choose to play their game, a role-playing game in a fantasy world. Pretty retarded then to complain that it doesn't conform to your parochial reality. Do you complain that there's no democracy in DA2? No? Then why should it conform to your cultural paradigm in any other regard?

Lastly, I just don't agree that you get "punished" for not being gay in this game. That's f*cking nonsense. I've managed to friend all the male characters to the max without sleeping with them. .. and as for Anders; ffs they give you the option to tell him you disapprove of being gay, and they even play the creepy music when he hits on you - what more do you want?

I actually take offense to the first paragraph, Gregorius. That "uneasy feeling" doesn't stem from my culture or my upbringing. It stems from the fact that putting it in my face like that places me in the awkward situation of having to put an end to it while still having to deal with the fallout of the situation. I can attest to this personally from having a homosexual boss spend time hitting on me and making me uncomfortable. When I put the cards on the table that I was heterosexual the other person didn't take kindly to that and made my working environment a pain in the ass. Those type of situations can work just like a heterosexual situation can. Thus you can't logically place the whole situation based on culture and upbringing. If it were that simple then I'd be a "gay bashing" ******. Instead I simply don't care what another person prefers. So long as someone of the same sex doesn't hit on me I'm fine, primarily because I take no action that would be considered flirting toward members of the same sex.

As for the second, you'd be incorrect. And the perfect example is Anders. I do his favor and running a good character use the top options. After dealing with the first issue for that character the very next conversation has him hitting on my character. Which I found the options quickly put me in a flirt or deny. When I deny I instantly am docked Friendship points and the scale is pushed toward rivalry. All I recall from the dialogue was that he was turned down. I then had a conversation with Fenris where the situation and options felt far more like a minefield! Hell, all I was attempting to do was have a drink and shoot the breeze. Instead I have two homosexual situations almost as soon as I met the characters put right in front of me and have to dance around them to prevent a shift of those bars. That is punishing the player.

The reverse should be said for Isabela. Unless you give some sort of indication the player shouldn't simply have her show up on your doorstep wanting to "get it on".  Which brings up the question of why any of the courtships seem to fall right into the player's lap but when you don't take them you see an ingame mechanic used against you?

At the end of it all I pretty much see the plethora of bisexual characters as Bioware catering to all the people complaining that their same sex character couldn't have a romance with Alistair/Morrigan. So instead of having the situation reflect real life where you have situations where someone just doesn't have the same sexual preference it was changed to be more "open" for some to the point of going overboard with the situation.

Thus you have the reverse of the Origins situation. Instead of people not getting what they want players have it practically thrown at them and if not careful an in-game mechanic that may cause a reverse shift in what the person was intending or wanted to accomidate someone else.

Dia2blo wrote...
I hope this thread doesn't put Bioware
off making gay relationships in the future.  I feel a hell of a lot
more attached to said characters than being forced to play a straight
character.

Also, I understand that most people think that gay/ straight are black and white, but as Anders says, doesn't it just count who you fall in love with?

I don't think that they should be put off by making these type of relationships for players, honestly. I simply think they should put more effort into having them occur. Simply because your nice to someone doesn't mean they should try to jump your bones. If that were the case nice guys/gals would get all the love.

Modifié par Alneverus, 14 mars 2011 - 11:17 .

[malakian]

Well surely that's a criticism of overt sexuality being jarring within the context of new relationships in game, Alneverus, rather than ****** or bi sexuality?

[Gabey5]

i don't see why people are whining it is all OPTIONAL

[Perles75]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

Gary the Gnu wrote...

It should be. If the Morale squad allows homosex, they should allow bestiality, possibly necrophilia. I, however draw the line at homosex and pedos.

What a fine, rational grasp of morality you have...

Did it not occur to you that gay men are human adults with the ability to discern and are have legal presence? That when they have sex, they are doing it of their own legal volition and it does not affect anyone outside of their party? That none of those things applies to any of the things you mentioned; and that the comparison is therefore utterly absurd?

You shouldn't really bother answering ^__^

I notice that several were disturbed that some characters (I don't know exactly because I don't have DA2 yet, I knew about Anders, others too?) make same-sex avances to Hawke, and they would like to have a "sexuality flag" because of this... isn't a bit overreacting? after all, it can happen in real life that you get not desired avances, but as I said before, you just need to say no

[GregoriusMaximus]

@Alneverus

Like I say, it was "changed" because having different sexualities would mean Bioware had to write different dialogues altogether for male/female Hawke instead of just substituting a few words here and there and that would've taken time - time EA didn't give them. The same probably goes for the fact that the like/dislike system is so incredibly simplistic that you can get "penalised" for not playing along with their flirtations. That said, that is entirely consistent with reality... it makes perfect sense that somebody would be hurt if you were tactless in dismissing their advances. But like I say, I had no problems with it. Just be nice without being too nice :s - not too hard surely?

... and the anecdote you provided in no way disproves my point about culture. In fact it seems to confirm it.

Modifié par GregoriusMaximus, 14 mars 2011 - 11:14 .

[Hroftt]

Gabey5 wrote...

i don't see why people are whining it is all OPTIONAL

 When you play with your kids near and some of sick "companions" openly offers gay sex?

 Optional?


 This is just disgusting. 

Modifié par Hroftt, 14 mars 2011 - 11:17 .

[GregoriusMaximus]

Hroftt wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

i don't see why people are whining it is all OPTIONAL

 When you play with your kids near and some of sick "companions" openly offers gay sex?

 Optional?


 This is just disgusting. 

Yes, dumbf*ck, you chose to play an adult-rated game around your kids. GG, you certainly have the moral high ground over those "disgusting" homosexuals.