84 réponses à ce sujet

[jsamlaw]

Let's not forget Sebastian was given free of charge to loyal followers of the series that ordered early. As far as making a difference--I thought it was nice having an archer NPC whom you could upgrade with some of the higher end bows since my main was a SnS Warrior. I also loved his Guardian Angel ability, it's what separated him from Varric from a tactics perspective IMO. I'll definitely party with Sebastian on my pro-Templar play through and had managed to keep him at 75% friendly despite siding with the mages...up until I spared Anders.

Overall, I'm happy with the character and agree he's well integrated but not essential. As for being DLC, if it's not worth $7 to enhance *every* 20 hour play through, then why bother complaining in the first place? Go spend your $7 (really $10) on a 2 hour movie and tell me what value you're getting there?

[Auru]

I have got to say, you did a really good job with fitting Sebastian into the game.. it's like he was there all along... turned out to be a much more interesting character then I had first thought as well

[Everwarden]

jsamlaw wrote...
Overall, I'm happy with the character and agree he's well integrated but not essential. As for being DLC, if it's not worth $7 to enhance *every* 20 hour play through, then why bother complaining in the first place? Go spend your $7 (really $10) on a 2 hour movie and tell me what value you're getting there?

Red herring. Not comparing the value of DLC to the value of a movie ticket. 

Though, honestly, I wonder at what point you fanboys would stop defending your company of choice. Would you care if they forced you to play bald-Hawke unless you got a $7 hair pack? 

...uhg, I can see the forum posts now. "There is no rule that Bioware needs to provide you a player character with hair. If you want hair, buy the DLC hair pack! Or play without. Or don't! Be happy with what you're given and shut up! There wouldn't even -be- hair unless they told the DLC development team to develop hair. No one owes you hair!" 

[jsamlaw]

Everwarden wrote...

Though, honestly, I wonder at what point you fanboys would stop defending your company of choice. Would you care if they forced you to play bald-Hawke unless you got a $7 hair pack? 

...uhg, I can see the forum posts now. "There is no rule that Bioware needs to provide you a player character with hair. If you want hair, buy the DLC hair pack! Or play without. Or don't! Be happy with what you're given and shut up! There wouldn't even -be- hair unless they told the DLC development team to develop hair. No one owes you hair!" 

As opposed to the whiners who think their $50 should buy them the world and everything in it?  Obviously, at the end of the day, Bioware is out to maximize profit just as any other company does.  They balance charging $7 to new customers who didn't pre-order against the possibility of upsetting said customers.  My point was that there is renewing value in DLC content that justifies the cost to the player.  I always laugh at the whiners who think they can instruct Bioware on a better business model.

[Bryy_Miller]

NKKKK wrote...

Which is perhaps meaningless to you, particularly since some people insist on seeing a conspiracy. The fact remains, however, that if it were not for DLC then Sebastian would never have existed at all.

Unless of course you had a longer development time, which this game needed.

But it didn't get that. So that's a moot point.

[Everwarden]

jsamlaw wrote...
As opposed to the whiners who think their $50 should buy them the world and everything in it? 

Well there are always people who will complain, but that's a straw man. Not all content related to the game should be free, assuming what you're paying full price for is a full sized game. Dragon Age 2 was not a full, polished game. The entire game has corners cut, and the ending just reeked of being rushed out at the last minute. Given an unpolished mess of a game that contains well less than half the content of the original I'd say that it's a bit annoying that Bioware charges for DLC that is already finished at launch.

I always laugh at the whiners who think they can instruct Bioware on a better business model.

Whining is justified when you get a half finished product that doesn't measure up to reasonable standards and then they want you to pay extra for content that could have been in the game in the first place.

That said, I wouldn't presume to tell them what to do regarding their business model, if they're making money they shouldn't and won't change. I will, as a customer, tell them what I think of what they're doing personally, and I think what they're doing is bull****, and shows they no longer care much about quality in their products or give half of a rats ass about longtime customers. 

If I and those that agree with me don't comment on our problems with what they're doing -now- and they do it again in the sequel it won't be the fault of Bioware, it will be the fault of those who didn't give appropriate feedback. 

[Bryy_Miller]

Everwarden wrote...

Whining is justified when you get a half finished product that doesn't measure up to reasonable standards and then they want you to pay extra for content that could have been in the game in the first place.

Whining is never justified. Being a brat is never justified. 

[heretica]

But people, Sebastian was included with the game. Why are you still complaining? You know what? I'm sure all of you would be complaining too if Sebastian was ONLY available to those who bought SE.

I'm sure someone would be like "oh, bioware... i couldn't buy SE so i miss out on Sebastian? D:"

[Everwarden]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Whining is justified when you get a half finished product that doesn't measure up to reasonable standards and then they want you to pay extra for content that could have been in the game in the first place.

Whining is never justified. Being a brat is never justified. 

You're whining about the whining. 

[Darian Tylmare]

I can say I know that I'm not in a postion to teach a company buisiness models, but you have to say DLCs are a way to give goods to the player after release. Of course, because it is so succesful, everybody wants to maximize their profit with it.
For me it would have been better if Sebastian wasn't neither a extra character for a people who preorderd the game nor a special character you have to buy. Just another part of the cast would have been fine for me.

[gelfie]

Shale was wonderful and often very funny. I took her everywhere I could in DAO. Sebastian looks fantastic, sounds great and somehow he manages to come across like a pious and somewhat pompous twit. The adventure itself is pretty good and I do like the skills he has to offer but I'm struggling to find anything endearing about him. I was hoping for a dashing version of King Cailan with a lovely Scottish accent. Or a Bann Teagan-like character.

[Khaldara]

I hated him on the basis of who he was and what his hangups were, but he was well implemented, and makes a notable threat at the end of the game if you choose to side with the mages, and don't kill Anders. I was rather surprised! I think the reason I hated him so much was because Varric was just so awesome. His personal talents are useful and aren't cluttered with a bunch of junk, his weapon improves with level so I wasn't forced to dig through the deluge of vendor trash bows for him, and he's just a lot more fun to have around. I don't think Sebastian was poorly implemented or badly designed, he was designed around a given facet of the game world, the Chantry. I just didn't like him due to who he was. Too much whining, felt the need for someone to slap him upside the head and tell him to quit being such a wuss, would have made for an excellent Isabella scene.

[Bryy_Miller]

Everwarden wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Whining is justified when you get a half finished product that doesn't measure up to reasonable standards and then they want you to pay extra for content that could have been in the game in the first place.

Whining is never justified. Being a brat is never justified. 

You're whining about the whining. 

No. 

Whining about it would me being unreasonable, using all caps, saying things like 'oh my god, why don't you just like the game wah wah'. Do you think whining = constructive criticism? Whining = / = disagreement.

[sylvanaerie]

Mariefoxprice83 wrote...

I bought the Sebastian DLC whilst in the 3rd act of the game. Will that affect what happens with him much? I have done the Faith quest and had him tag along for some other stuff.

Well, he has quests in all three Acts, the most significant one (probably) being in the second Act, but you can always do that on a subsquent playthrough.  Not sure but you might be able to do all three quests in Act 3?  Not sure.  I had him before I made a Hawke since I got the SE.

[Trobon18]

Noviere wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Sebastian is an improvement on what they started with Shale. He's not integral to the story, but rather, well integrated. I highly doubt that the story would have been lacking had he not been included. I'm sure somebody who didn't buy him or get him with the SE could tell you that.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on Sebastian.

I'm glad he was well integrated into the story... The DLC characters for ME2 had little impact on anything, which was disappointing. He is clearly optional though... None of his actions have a major impact on the story, and I doubt I'd miss him if I hadn't gotten him with the SE.

Exactly. I would rather spend money on a character who adds to the game and story than one who does nothing beyond their own one mission.

[Medhia Nox]

Shouldn't a more integrated DLC be considered better value?

[rumination888]

Just like what the second poster said, the answer is simple, "making money".

Instead of fixing the numerous overt gameplay bugs after the alpha phase and turning it into a day 1 patch, they chose to develop day 1 DLC. Even their readme file that came with the game lists bugs already known to them(i'm sure BioWare will no longer list known issues on a readme file now that the cats out of the bag). It is impossible to defend BioWare on this cash grab.

[DM Veil]

Catt128 wrote...

But people, Sebastian was included with the game. Why are you still complaining? You know what? I'm sure all of you would be complaining too if Sebastian was ONLY available to those who bought SE.

I'm sure someone would be like "oh, bioware... i couldn't buy SE so i miss out on Sebastian? D:"

Definitely this! They could have just said "Sorry, these DLCs are only for SE owners" and not given everyone the chance to get it. I really hate the sense of entitlement a lot of people have, why not just be thankful it was offered at all instead of only to those that ordered the game early?

But I guess it's better to just see it as evil company X is just trying to milk us for all the money they can.

Modifié par DM Veil, 16 mars 2011 - 02:15 .

[Clonedzero]

Catt128 wrote...

But people, Sebastian was included with the game. Why are you still complaining? You know what? I'm sure all of you would be complaining too if Sebastian was ONLY available to those who bought SE.

I'm sure someone would be like "oh, bioware... i couldn't buy SE so i miss out on Sebastian? D:"

i would have ordered the SE but the whole SE thing was announced and expired long before there was any gameplay videos. i wasnt sure what system i wanted to get the game on at that point since i had no point of reference.

am i missing out because i dont have it? yeah. its a bit of a shame, shoulda been like shale. i'd be tempted to buy it if he was a warrior, but an archer rogue? eh....money's tight and i doubt i'd use him over varric ever except on his personal quests so i'm passing on this particular DLC, maybe they'll have a sale and get it for half price in a couple months? i'd totally buy it then.

like i dont have any of the paid ME2 DLC's even though i'd love to, if they did some sort of cool DLC combo pack and set it at like 15-20 bucks then yeah, i'd buy that.  so i dunno. DLC sales could be cool. think about it bioware! i remember shelving DA:O after beating it to death after awakening came out, then  finding out there was MORE DLC afterwards and skipped them cus eh. but if they were combo'd together for a cheap package fee i woulda got it.

bring it up in a buisness meeting! lol

[DiabolicallyRandom]

David Gaider wrote...

Demon Velsper wrote...
Funny how you managed to put him on the disc then. Or do you seriously expect me to believe all of his content was in that 30 MB file? 

Perhaps you mistunderstand. He was concepted and written after the rest of the game was concepted and written... not after the rest of the game was fully completed and put onto a disc. He was built on a separate timeline and only the parts that needed to be on the disc itself (ie. the parts where he interjects in other conversations) were required to be completed by the time the main game entered certification. DLC has a much shorter certification process, so we could finish the rest of the work afterwards and still be completed on the same time.

Which is perhaps meaningless to you, particularly since some people insist on seeing a conspiracy. The fact remains, however, that if it were not for DLC then Sebastian would never have existed at all.

And therein lies the rub. A conspiracy theorist will always see conspiracy first, and logic second.

I am not sure why peoople refuse to accept the simple timeline.

Before DLC existed, this time and effort probably would have been instead spent on working on an expansion, or add on pack (ala Awakening) no?

I see no reason to get up in arms about release day DLC. 

If Anders had been release day DLC, I could see the uproar. This? I don't get it. Sebastian adds character and depth to the chantry story. But the chantry story stands well without him just the same.

[Maria Caliban]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Ok, I can see where Shale was not so bad as DLC, the only scene where she really MATTERED was if you took her to the Deep Roads.  Aside from that, there was no story reasons why you would need her.

However, Sebastian and his relationship withte Chantry and the Grand Cleric is very much shown throughout the game.  He's much more involved in the story than Shale was.

Unlike DA:O, where only Morrigan and Alistiar mattered to the story, DA II was made so every, single companion was both involved in events and had a part to play.

Though I'm not sure if Merrill fits as well as the others.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Everwarden wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

Then play a rogue, or don't.  Then buy Sebastian, or don't.  In fact, play the game,or don't.  Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

What a classic response when someone makes a point you can't refute and you don't want to concede it: "Well no one is forcing you to play/do xyz!" I know no one is forcing me to play Dragon Age 2. That doesn't mean my point about it is invalid, or that my criticism of the game is wrong. 

Ok, I don't agree that it's obvious that the game is rushed and half-assed.  While you are entitled to your opinion, I didn't feel it was necessary to say "I think you are wrong." but, apparently it was.

[Oswin]

He's a nice extra to the game but I feel it runs fine without him. I honestly forgot he was there for most of it, until of course he provided me with laughs at his dramatic cries at the end.
Of course by then I realised I had opened myself up to more war and enemies by having bought the man in the first place.
Bring it on Sebastian, bring. it. on.

[bztang]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Sebastian is an improvement on what they started with Shale. He's not integral to the story, but rather, well integrated. I highly doubt that the story would have been lacking had he not been included. I'm sure somebody who didn't buy him or get him with the SE could tell you that.

Fenris wasn't integral either...I told him to sod off and that I didn't want to help him any firther after first meeting him. Plus with Sebastian you get to meet with Leliana, in the quest "Faith" which I don't think you get without the DLC.

[Brimleydower]

DLC = money. It begins and ends there. There's no point in acting surprised, and there's no point in getting defensive when someone "dares" to point it out. It allows companies to tap into the MMO cash flow without actually being an MMO.

Day One DLC does not really "upset" me. At this point, everyone should be used to it. The fact that this game was rushed out the door is what concerns me. I'm left with the impression that this is just a case of striking while the iron is hot, rather than taking the time to create another true masterpiece. The end result is a good game that could have been great. I'd say there's a lot of issues putting the squeeze on Dragon Age's direction and development currently, which is unfortunate.  DA:O was a faint glimmer of hope in a stagnant RPG market, for me, and it seems as if the franchise might be entering a (to quote Mr. Zappa) "see how much bilge the load can bear" scenario.  I could be terribly wrong, too.  One less-then-amazing game doesn't really shake my confidence in Bioware completely, but the features creeping up in every game are throwing up warning signs.

*Having said all of this, I can see that I might come off as being a little sour.  Dragon Age II was an immensely enjoyable game, and I don't wish to distract from this fact too much.  It simply was not its predecessor is the underlying theme, I suppose.  Some like that, some do nots.  I'm one of the do nots.

Modifié par Brimleydower, 16 mars 2011 - 03:24 .