12 réponses à ce sujet

[Stalky24]

 Idea behind was to allow player use and tweak spells he wants rather then pick unnecessary ones just to get to better ones.

Well, problem is, that design of the trees is exact opposite.

To get to spells you want, you need to fulfill:
- get spells you dont want to get both requiements
- spend points where you dont want to get point requiement.

So... I think this needs a quick fix.
1. Change "AND" from requiements to "OR" 
...so lets say, if I want Elemental Mastery, I need Cone of Cold or Firestorm, not both.

2. Remove point requiements from talents.
There is already level requiement, so you can spend those points on the different trees
while waiting for right level, which lets you tweak your build more freely.

3. Make tree work both ways. 
So if I have Cone of Cold, pick Elemental Mastery, I can now pick Firestorm without taking Fireball.

I would be happy if some modder could atleast do a mod to allow this

[Stardusk78]

Stalky24 wrote...

 Idea behind was to allow player use and tweak spells he wants rather then pick unnecessary ones just to get to better ones.

Well, problem is, that design of the trees is exact opposite.

To get to spells you want, you need to fulfill:
- get spells you dont want to get both requiements
- spend points where you dont want to get point requiement.

So... I think this needs a quick fix.
1. Change "AND" from requiements to "OR" 
...so lets say, if I want Elemental Mastery, I need Cone of Cold or Firestorm, not both.

2. Remove point requiements from talents.
There is already level requiement, so you can spend those points on the different trees
while waiting for right level, which lets you tweak your build more freely.

3. Make tree work both ways. 
So if I have Cone of Cold, pick Elemental Mastery, I can now pick Firestorm without taking Fireball.

I would be happy if some modder could atleast do a mod to allow this

Kind of agree with you.

[Darian Tylmare]

Yeah but it downright contradicts what the devs said they didn't like from the old skill system.
In DA:O skills where chains with mandatory skills nobody likes, so their goal was to create a skill system that let's you decide which skills you would use.
Sadly, this grid doesn't do this, it's the same like before in a different shape.

Modifié par Darian Tylmare, 14 mars 2011 - 04:39 .

[Ignoble Fat Man]

Completely disagree with you there. You need to specialize your character and get all the skills to really have mastery of a type of magic. If you could just pick and choose then all spells would have to be equally effective and therefore equally boring. Without making you choose a path and "think" through your character development you are only playing an action adventure game and not a role playing game.

[Stalky24]

Darian Tylmare wrote...

Yeah but it downright contradicts what the devs said they didn't like from the old skill system.
In DA:O skills where chains with mandatory skills nobody likes, so their goal was to create a skill system that let's you decide which skills you would use.
Sadly, this grid doesn't do this, it's the same like before in a different shape.

exactly. BW mentioned old skill system too restricted, that you need to waste 1-3 points to get your spell.

Problem is, that new system is much more restricted. You need to waste even 5-7 (like if I want just regen/con from Spirit Healer) points to get what you want. It should be fixed

INGOBLE FAT MAN wrote...

Completely disagree with you there. You need to specialize your character and get all the skills to really have mastery of a type of magic. If you could just pick and choose then all spells would have to be equally effective and therefore equally boring. Without making you choose a path and "think" through your character development you are only playing an action adventure game and not a role playing game.

Youre clearly missing the point. There would be ways, but ways you want. Lets say I want to be fire mage. I pick Fire Ball, Firestorm, but ouch, I need 2 more spells and upgrade atleast one to get Mastery. 

Modifié par Stalky24, 14 mars 2011 - 04:58 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

but for a mage you can pick up rock armor and arcane shield, etc at no extra cost, rogue- stealth, attack speed and so on.....of course if you want the top of the line spells you need some sacrifice

[Cloaking_Thane]

Stalky24 wrote...

Darian Tylmare wrote...

Yeah but it downright contradicts what the devs said they didn't like from the old skill system.
In DA:O skills where chains with mandatory skills nobody likes, so their goal was to create a skill system that let's you decide which skills you would use.
Sadly, this grid doesn't do this, it's the same like before in a different shape.

exactly. BW mentioned old skill system too restricted, that you need to waste 1-3 points to get your spell.

Problem is, that new system is much more restricted. You need to waste even 5-7 (like if I want just regen/con from Spirit Healer) points to get what you want. It should be fixed

INGOBLE FAT MAN wrote...

Completely disagree with you there. You need to specialize your character and get all the skills to really have mastery of a type of magic. If you could just pick and choose then all spells would have to be equally effective and therefore equally boring. Without making you choose a path and "think" through your character development you are only playing an action adventure game and not a role playing game.

Youre clearly missing the point. There would be ways, but ways you want. Lets say I want to be fire mage. I pick Fire Ball, Firestorm, but ouch, I need 2 more spells and upgrade atleast one to get Mastery. 

Its elemental mastery though, not fire mastery. I understand you point, but otherwise youd be able to invest in every tree to get the maximum spell.... defeating the purpose of Mastery in a tree

[Stalky24]

ok maybe Elemental Mastery example wasnt really that good.
But what about Spirit Healer? Lets say you pick it for Con/Regen talent.
That means you need to sacrifice other 5 points to get it, from which
you never use any.
Thing is, those Masteries (and not only masteries, tons of other talents)
are extremly limiting to your build tweaking. You have to pick one school
and stick with it, rather then create unique build for yourself.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Stalky24 wrote...

ok maybe Elemental Mastery example wasnt really that good.
But what about Spirit Healer? Lets say you pick it for Con/Regen talent.
That means you need to sacrifice other 5 points to get it, from which
you never use any.
Thing is, those Masteries (and not only masteries, tons of other talents)
are extremly limiting to your build tweaking. You have to pick one school
and stick with it, rather then create unique build for yourself.

I have to ask if youre not going to invest (heavily) in spirit healer why you would pick it as a spec.

You should just roll with Anders if thats the case that you only are really in it for one spell.

If you are arguing that the SH tree is lackluster as a whole and you wont use half of it then thats opinion an certainly acceptable.

Its a choice. If you want the "end game" spells you should have to sacrafice more than 3 points here or there.

and IIRC you can get 3-4 extra skill points along the way which help soften the blow!

[GunClubGirl]

Ignoble Fat Man wrote...

Completely disagree with you there. You need to specialize your character and get all the skills to really have mastery of a type of magic. If you could just pick and choose then all spells would have to be equally effective and therefore equally boring. Without making you choose a path and "think" through your character development you are only playing an action adventure game and not a role playing game.

I agree with this. If you want a really powerful spell you need to earn it. You need to seriously think about whether you are willing to "waste" any points on things you don't want to get it, or whether you want to go for something else. It is strategy, and it makes sense that the more powerful abilities aren't as easy to come by. Sure, it's fun to be a "superpower" in a game. But I prefer this carefully thought out strategic building of my character, and being forced to seriously consider every point.

[Ignoble Fat Man]

Stalky24 wrote...

ok maybe Elemental Mastery example wasnt really that good.
But what about Spirit Healer? Lets say you pick it for Con/Regen talent.
That means you need to sacrifice other 5 points to get it, from which
you never use any.
Thing is, those Masteries (and not only masteries, tons of other talents)
are extremly limiting to your build tweaking. You have to pick one school
and stick with it, rather then create unique build for yourself.

That is the point.  It limits the amount of spells and the direction of your character.  If you could just max out whatever type of skills you want then what is the point of having trees.  Just give everyone the 10 best skills and no other choices as that is what everyone will do anyway.  I am sorry but if you want to be an adept with creation magics you are going to have to force your character to learn enough of the creation magics to figure out how to do the Con/Regen talent.

Just think of these trees as anything else you want to learn.  You have to learn the basics before you learn the more advanced materials.  Thankfully I haven't seen any basic spells that weren't at least useful.  They might not be the most elite spells but they are useful.  Also, nothing is stopping you from picking and choosing from a lot of trees....your character will just be mostly useless without spending enough points in the tree to have full mastery of the skills therin. 

[QarcHoniC]

 You are just greedy and want all the amazing spells to yourself so you dont have to waste points on the less interesting ones. The game was balanced so that you cant have every awesome spell in each tree. Whats really cool about this is it adds a ton of replay value to try diffrent builds. If you could jsut grab the key spells from every tree I bet most mages would turn out the same. 

= not fun