198 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Athena]

I said I wanted Elves to have a little more unique look than simply humans with pointy ears and you equate that to "long faces and have slanty eyes and giant heads to fit two brains with a second eye"? I don't even know where to begin with that.

Just read what I said on page 6 and you will understand; Bioware elves are not unique they are just bad versions of human faces that have been drawn by a blind artist.

And I said that because thats what you guys want something different... you automatically assume that you need to reshape the face dramatically, thats fine if you want an animal or a monster horror race or something that doesn't relate to a humanoid, but if your just moving the bone structure around and thats it, all you will get is a really bad human face structure that looks wrong.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:11 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Zkyire wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

I like the direction they are going, just that they need a little more work. But I'd put that on the below average graphics engine the game uses. I think the whole point of their new look, is to make them look more feral looking.

I know this comment is about a year old, but that's pretty much how I feel about it.

I don't want the Elves to just look like humans with relatively pointy ears, so I applaud Bioware for taking them in a little bit different direction, but they still need work.

Unique Elves:

Hellboy:

  

 

Sexy and beautiful? Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I certainly don't see King Balor as being beautiful and his daughter below isn't exactly what I would call divinely beautiful either (although I wouldn't call her design ugly).

Neverwinter Nights:

 

 



 

Sexy and beautiful? Again beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I don't find any of these elves to be extremely beautiful. Three of them actually have winkles and the 2nd and 3rd elves don't even resemble humans much.

Boring generic and poorly designed elves:

Overlord 2 (note that these elves were deliberately designed like this to poke fun at the typical fantasy elf):

 

Dragon Age 2 (note that this elf looks like the Overlord 2 elf which was a parody on elves, DA2 elves CLEARLY aren't unique):

 
Some random MMO game (yet another elf that looks like a DA2 elf but just one with a better face):



The DA2 elves weren't a step in the right direction.

Dragon Age Redemption:

 

Narnia:

 

Galagrixian Ozian:

  

Unique Bioware? Give me a break!
XD

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:36 .

[Lord Athena]

That's what Bioware/Bethesda and all the other really bad generic copies did to the elves. They just produced FRANKENSTEIN! Look at the face structure of that face!

Giant brows= Check
Eyes too far apart from nose= Check
Nose too wide and long= Check
Mouth too far from nose= Check
Face triangular shaped and long= Check
Chin too long and pointy= Check
Slanty eyes/ or if it was female giant eyes= Check
Ears bigger= Check
Forehead giant= Check



WOW! It looks like Bethesda elves in both Skyrim and all Elder Scrolls games! And I think Bioware copied them! Yeah very unique.... I'm glad Bethesda are not doing the designs for the Elder Scrolls Online, the High Elves are finally free from that retard/deform look; check out the trailer and in game images you can see the new developers were sane to go Tolkien design! Which isn't boring, that ugly thing that Bioware and other developers made, I see in games every role playing game, thats boring.

Kingdoms of Amalur, Dragon Dogma and Kingdom Under Fire 2 are the only elven face designs that look good right now.

[Eternal Phoenix]

"Just give Frankenstein's monster some pointy floppy ears and we have the new elf design for Dragon Age 3 boys!" - Bioware

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:34 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Bioware just contacted me and said that they were considering these designs for elves in Dragon Age 3 but wanted fan feedback first:

Design 1:

  

Design 2:

 

Being such an outstanding and awesome member of the community Bioware asked me to post this. So what do you guys think of the new elf designs? I think they're awful!

[Lord Athena]

:wub:Speak for yourself but I think hellboy's elves look sexy and attractive! Especially prince Nuada, he has a sexy dark beauty..... Anyway they look unique and I can't help but think that they look like the new standard to dark elves, and I like it! Dark and Sexy..... But also deadly!

Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:59 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

What do you think of Bioware's new designs of DA3 elves?

[Lord Athena]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Bioware just contacted me and said that they were considering these designs for elves in Dragon Age 3 but wanted fan feedback first:


Being such an outstanding and awesome member of the community Bioware asked me to post this. So what do you guys think of the new elf designs? I think they're awful!

:OOMFG! LOL! Wow Elton! You just made me spit my coke all over my lovely screen and I can't stop laughing... My lungs hurt now..... You are so right and nice pics, you really got it spot on and if you add Tolkien ears it will look like Bethesda elves LOL!

[hussey 92]

Zkyire wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

Not some really bad anatomy just because you want to see some alien woman race, if you want that go play Mass Effect! Because elves are earth beings that we are related to, we branched off them! Thats why they have our faces!

DA lore says Elves and Humans came from different parts of the world.

whites, blacks and asains come from different parts of the world.  We don't see each other as aliens though.

[Zkyire]

hussey 92 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

Not some really bad anatomy just because you want to see some alien woman race, if you want that go play Mass Effect! Because elves are earth beings that we are related to, we branched off them! Thats why they have our faces!

DA lore says Elves and Humans came from different parts of the world.

whites, blacks and asains come from different parts of the world.  We don't see each other as aliens though.

Different human races are part of the same species that originated in the same place and then branched off.

Not the same as Elves and Humans in DA who started out as different, and came from different places.

[Lord Athena]

Zkyire wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

Not some really bad anatomy just because you want to see some alien woman race, if you want that go play Mass Effect! Because elves are earth beings that we are related to, we branched off them! Thats why they have our faces!

DA lore says Elves and Humans came from different parts of the world.

whites, blacks and asains come from different parts of the world.  We don't see each other as aliens though.

Different human races are part of the same species that originated in the same place and then branched off.

Not the same as Elves and Humans in DA who started out as different, and came from different places.

Were does it say that? And just because it says they came from different lands doesn't mean they are not related in some way (they are both humanoids) You do know that we humans are related to all forms of life on our planet even plants? Bioware are retards and anyone else that thinks humans just came from humans! At least Bethesda races made sence! Their elves were related in some way with the humans!

"Within the lore of the Elder Scrolls universe, men and elves[/i] were alike. They are actually closely related[/i] to men, and are loosely classified as humans."

At least Bethesda knew genetics when they started to create their lore, they didn't just make up alot of crap like Bioware and then changed their races just because they were too chicken**** to have balls to stick with their design! Bethesda might fail in the beauty and story deparment, but at least they know what there talking about!

I know it's fiction, but even Tolkien made sure everything made sence, same for Bethesda and other developers. 

All life on earth is descended from a common ancestor, and this does mean that if you go far back enough we are all related. Obviously, for some forms of life - such as plants - the common ancestor with humans is many hundreds of millions of years ago. For prokaryotes such as bacteria, this is even further back - over a billion years.

To clarify the point about the possible multiple origin of life, it does seem clear from the DNA that even if there were multiple separate cases of life appearing, we are all still related. This is probably because of horizontal gene transfer, which can happen between bacteria. So the actual picture might be like a tree with many roots, representing the original life forms, but all converging into a single trunk from which we are all branches.

That's why Tolkien made his elves look human, because it even says in myth that humans branched from elves. Even says humans became elves when they died if they were honourable in their past life as a reward.

So this rubbish about how dwarves, humans and elves not being related is alot of crap! End of story! Unless you want to argue about science with the bible I would be very quiet now.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[Lord Athena]

Tolkien - "The existence of Elves: that is of a race of beings closely akin to Men, so closely indeed that they must be regarded as physically (or biologically) simply branches of the same race."
 
Bethesda - "Within the lore of the Elder Scrolls universe, men and elves were alike. They are actually related to men, and are loosely classified as humans."

Bioware - "Hey Fans! We saw generic bad elves and thought we would copy them because we are too stupid to research these things and then just kept the lore the same as Tolkien elves but contradicted ourselves by making them look like retard aliens from a different universe/planet!"

Looks like Bethesda and Tolkien gave us something unique, Bioware just contradicted themselves when making their lore and not researching facts like biology. Yes you need to look these things up even if it's just a fantasy world! If you want a world thats realistic but also fantasy you need to look these things up! Look up geology when making up maps, look up myths to know facts about the races you want in like wraiths and elves, don't just make it up because you think it sounds and looks different and new! 

Bioware just gave us Mass Effect but with swords, it's a fact.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[Saberchic]

Lord Athena wrote...


Tolkien - "The existence of Elves: that is of a race of beings closely akin to Men, so closely indeed that they must be regarded as physically (or biologically) simply branches of the same race."

You see that makes total sence!

You can't apply Tolkein's lore to DA. It's a different universe.

[Zkyire]

Lord Athena wrote...

Were does it say that? And just because it says they came from different lands doesn't mean they are not related in some way (they are both humanoids) You do know that we humans are related to all forms of life on our planet even plants? Bioware are retards and anyone else that thinks humans just came from humans! At least Bethesda races made sence! Their elves were related in some way with the humans!

"Within the lore of the Elder Scrolls universe, men and elves[/i] were alike. They are actually closely related[/i] to men, and are loosely classified as humans."

At least Bethesda knew genetics when they started to create their lore, they didn't just make up alot of crap like Bioware and then changed their races just because they were too chicken**** to have balls to stick with their design! Bethesda might fail in the beauty and story deparment, but at least they know what there talking about!

I know it's fiction, but even Tolkien made sure everything made sence, same for Bethesda and other developers. 

All life on earth is descended from a common ancestor, and this does mean that if you go far back enough we are all related. Obviously, for some forms of life - such as plants - the common ancestor with humans is many hundreds of millions of years ago. For prokaryotes such as bacteria, this is even further back - over a billion years.

To clarify the point about the possible multiple origin of life, it does seem clear from the DNA that even if there were multiple separate cases of life appearing, we are all still related. This is probably because of horizontal gene transfer, which can happen between bacteria. So the actual picture might be like a tree with many roots, representing the original life forms, but all converging into a single trunk from which we are all branches.

That's why Tolkien made his elves look human, because it even says in myth that humans branched from elves. Even says humans became elves when they died if they were honourable in their past life as a reward.

So this rubbish about how dwarves, humans and elves not being related is alot of crap! End of story! Unless you want to argue about science with the bible I would be very quiet now.

I'm talking about Dragon Age.

Yet you're talking about The Elder Scrolls series, Tolkien's works and the Bible.

I.. don't know where you're coming up with that stuff about Humans being reincarnated as Elves in Tolkien's books. They're not the same. Humans are mortal, but when Humans die, they immediately go to the afterlife, not reincarnation. Elves are immortal, but when they die, they're trapped in the world until the end times and only then do their souls pass on. They were both *created* by God. Separated by a considerable time. They didn't branch off from Elves. They were *created* long after.

I'm done arguing with you on this, you're going off on way too many tangents about other franchises.

Modifié par Zkyire, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:43 .

[Lord Athena]

Saberchic wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...


Tolkien - "The existence of Elves: that is of a race of beings closely akin to Men, so closely indeed that they must be regarded as physically (or biologically) simply branches of the same race."

You see that makes total sence!

You can't apply Tolkein's lore to DA. It's a different universe.

Why not? At least he studied when making his lore, he didn't just make half the crap up like Bioware. 

Its based on our planet and with our myths! It's not God dam Mass Effect when you break the laws of science!

The elves are not some space alien 

Read my last post on this topic about genes! Before saying no i'm wrong and silly, well Bethesda and the others did it right, but Bioware messed it up and you can tell that because they changed designs and kept their lore the same as Tolkien's elves so how is it different? They copied but just did a really bad copy, if it was good I would clap with joy. But they didn't, they mocked Tolkien and every other developer just like OverLord did and you think thats good and unique?

[Saberchic]

Lord Athena wrote...

Why not? At least he studied when making his lore, he didn't just make half the crap up like Bioware. 

Its based on our planet and with our myths! It's not God dam Mass Effect when you break the laws of science!

The elves are not some space alien 

Read my last post on this topic about genes! Before saying no i'm wrong and silly, well Bethesda and the others did it right, but Bioware messed it up and you can tell that because they changed designs and kept their lore the same as Tolkien's elves so how is it different? They copied but just did a really bad copy, if it was good I would clap with joy. But they didn't, they mocked Tolkien and every other developer just like OverLord did and you think thats good and unique?

It's Bioware's world. They've also said that Thedas is loosely based on Medieval Europe, but that doesn't mean they strictly stay with those countries' histories. If they want to make changes to elves to make them different to suit their world, then that's their call.

In DAO, the elves really are just smaller version of humans with pointy ears. I can see why Bioware wanted to distinguish themselves a bit more though I'm not fond of the direction they went with elves. I actually had to start a playthrough over because when I made a city elf, I chose a long hairstyle for her, and  it covered her ears. I forgot she was actually an elf until I caught myself wondering why she was so tiny next to Alistair. That's a bad thing!

You constantly call on other sources like Tolkein to make your points. But Thedas is not Middle Earth. If you like those other interpretations of elves, perhaps you'd be happier sticking with those games. A creator of a fantasy world does not have to stick with typical archetypes; they can change things as they see fit to give things a different spin.

[Lord Athena]

Edit: Post removed.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 23 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[Xilizhra]

...what? Bacteria can do horizontal gene transference, thus elves should look like humans? In what world does that follow? And whatever that world is, it wouldn't have to be the DA setting, because the laws of reality work rather differently there... furthermore, elves and humans look astonishingly alike in any case in DA2, with what must have been a very close common ancestor. The only differences are in height, build and some facial features.

[The Hierophant]

Say what you will about DA elves' physical design, but their lore is unique/original and should stay that way. I know this has been said a bajillion times before but i'll repeat it. Before Tolkien popularized the tall, elegant, fair skinned elven archetype, elves came in many shapes and sizes in the old Germanic, Norse fairy tales. So there is no right or wrong way in portraying elves. Bioware's only fault in the elven matter is radically changing the elves facial structure, alienating players who enjoyed the original design, while creating a sense of discontinuity in the series.

[Lord Athena]

Saberchic wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

Why not? At least he studied when making his lore, he didn't just make half the crap up like Bioware. 

Its based on our planet and with our myths! It's not God dam Mass Effect when you break the laws of science!

The elves are not some space alien 

Read my last post on this topic about genes! Before saying no i'm wrong and silly, well Bethesda and the others did it right, but Bioware messed it up and you can tell that because they changed designs and kept their lore the same as Tolkien's elves so how is it different? They copied but just did a really bad copy, if it was good I would clap with joy. But they didn't, they mocked Tolkien and every other developer just like OverLord did and you think thats good and unique?

It's Bioware's world. They've also said that Thedas is loosely based on Medieval Europe, but that doesn't mean they strictly stay with those countries' histories. If they want to make changes to elves to make them different to suit their world, then that's their call.

In DAO, the elves really are just smaller version of humans with pointy ears. I can see why Bioware wanted to distinguish themselves a bit more though I'm not fond of the direction they went with elves. I actually had to start a playthrough over because when I made a city elf, I chose a long hairstyle for her, and  it covered her ears. I forgot she was actually an elf until I caught myself wondering why she was so tiny next to Alistair. That's a bad thing!

You constantly call on other sources like Tolkein to make your points. But Thedas is not Middle Earth. If you like those other interpretations of elves, perhaps you'd be happier sticking with those games. A creator of a fantasy world does not have to stick with typical archetypes; they can change things as they see fit to give things a different spin.

I didn't just quote Tolkien elves to prove my point. I also looked at unique elves form hellboy and others did you even read the posts? And yes I do like those interpretations of elves and you and that other guy say as if i'm a very sick and wrong person, yet you call the bad generic bad copies good? I just bloody showed you facts, I showed you the triangular elven designs that are clear copies that Bioware used! Yet you and others just keep on saying "Oh Bioware elves are unique not like boring Tolkien" 

Tolkien elves are classic! Not tagged as boring get the term right you insulting people! No fantasy creators don't have to follow the classic versions but if everybody just changed things just for the sake of doing it and not actually producing something unique that I have never seen before its just plain stupid.

Also I like how you guys try and say DA2 elves should be this, yet all you say is "they are unique" yet you don't produce any facts or quotes or proof that this is the case, your just trolling for the sake of saying Bioware is right because your hardcore followers. Just say it and don't lie.

[Lord Athena]

Xilizhra wrote...

...what? Bacteria can do horizontal gene transference, thus elves should look like humans? In what world does that follow? And whatever that world is, it wouldn't have to be the DA setting, because the laws of reality work rather differently there... furthermore, elves and humans look astonishingly alike in any case in DA2, with what must have been a very close common ancestor. The only differences are in height, build and some facial features.

Look it up? I'm not a science teacher, that was a quote. And it's true, we are related to bactria, plants and other animals. "In what world does that follow" Ours look it up, you don't have to make them be related but it would make more sence since they look like humans, the Bioware elves look like really bad versions of humans anyway thats not really unique.

[Xilizhra]

Lord Athena wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

...what? Bacteria can do horizontal gene transference, thus elves should look like humans? In what world does that follow? And whatever that world is, it wouldn't have to be the DA setting, because the laws of reality work rather differently there... furthermore, elves and humans look astonishingly alike in any case in DA2, with what must have been a very close common ancestor. The only differences are in height, build and some facial features.

Look it up? I'm not a science teacher, that was a quote. And it's true, we are related to bactria, plants and other animals. "In what world does that follow" Ours look it up, you don't have to make them be related but it would make more sence since they look like humans, the Bioware elves look like really bad versions of humans anyway thats not really unique.

Oh, I know we're all related, I just didn't know what it had to do with anything about making facial features look slightly more alike.

And whether or not it's unique, I do appreciate how elves were made to look a bit more distinct from humans.

[Saberchic]

Lord Athena wrote...

I didn't just quote Tolkien elves to prove my point. I also looked at unique elves form hellboy and others did you even read the posts? And yes I do like those interpretations of elves and you and that other guy say as if i'm a very sick and wrong person, yet you call the bad generic bad copies good? I just bloody showed you facts, I showed you the triangular elven designs that are clear copies that Bioware used! Yet you and others just keep on saying "Oh Bioware elves are unique not like boring Tolkien" 

Tolkien elves are classic! Not tagged as boring get the term right you insulting people! No fantasy creators don't have to follow the classic versions but if everybody just changed things just for the sake of doing it and not actually producing something unique that I have never seen before its just plain stupid.

Also I like how you guys try and say DA2 elves should be this, yet all you say is "they are unique" yet you don't produce any facts or quotes or proof that this is the case, your just trolling for the sake of saying Bioware is right because your hardcore followers. Just say it and don't lie.

You are clearly putting words in my mouth. I never said you were sick and wrong, nor implied it.

The "facts" you show are from other worlds' lore, not Bioware. If you are going to state facts about the DA world, you need to use lore from DA. I happen to like Tolkein elves, but that doesn't mean I think all elves should be just like his.

You hate any elf that deviates from your preferred predilection. I get it. But constantly calling people trolls (when they aren't) and other names is your only defense when you can't prove your points and is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

[Lord Athena]

The Hierophant wrote...

Say what you will about DA elves' physical design, but their lore is unique/original and should stay that way. I know this has been said a bajillion times before but i'll repeat it. Before Tolkien popularized the tall, elegant, fair skinned elven archetype, elves came in many shapes and sizes in the old Germanic, Norse fairy tales. So there is no right or wrong way in portraying elves. Bioware's only fault in the elven matter is radically changing the elves facial structure, alienating players who enjoyed the original design, while creating a sense of discontinuity in the series.

Ok i'm really sick of this "BIOWARE ARE UNIQUE CRAP" Can you produce facts/proof that they are unique? Do you guys even know what the word unique means? Because your automatically spiting the word out as if it has no meaning? Tolkien didn't start it you they were always popularized like that in the myths. I like how you just say they came in different shapes and forms without the quotes to back it up? Did you even read the Old Norse elves? Because your speaking of them as if they were alien like and different from Tolkien elves?

Ok the only vaild thing you have said was the "So there is no right and wrong..... and Bioware's only fault......" You now finally sound like you know what your talking about and are noy just trolling like the others did.

[Lord Athena]

Saberchic wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

I didn't just quote Tolkien elves to prove my point. I also looked at unique elves form hellboy and others did you even read the posts? And yes I do like those interpretations of elves and you and that other guy say as if i'm a very sick and wrong person, yet you call the bad generic bad copies good? I just bloody showed you facts, I showed you the triangular elven designs that are clear copies that Bioware used! Yet you and others just keep on saying "Oh Bioware elves are unique not like boring Tolkien" 

Tolkien elves are classic! Not tagged as boring get the term right you insulting people! No fantasy creators don't have to follow the classic versions but if everybody just changed things just for the sake of doing it and not actually producing something unique that I have never seen before its just plain stupid.

Also I like how you guys try and say DA2 elves should be this, yet all you say is "they are unique" yet you don't produce any facts or quotes or proof that this is the case, your just trolling for the sake of saying Bioware is right because your hardcore followers. Just say it and don't lie.

You are clearly putting words in my mouth. I never said you were sick and wrong, nor implied it.

The "facts" you show are from other worlds' lore, not Bioware. If you are going to state facts about the DA world, you need to use lore from DA. I happen to like Tolkein elves, but that doesn't mean I think all elves should be just like his.

You hate any elf that deviates from your preferred predilection. I get it. But constantly calling people trolls (when they aren't) and other names is your only defense when you can't prove your points and is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

What? Oh I guess you missed Faerunners posts about Dragon Age elves being said to be fair and divine like Tolkien elves and Old Norse elves. I never said they had to look Tolkien I said they had to look at least human because it says the humans found them more attractive than other humans. And you have a bloody nerve! All I have heard from you is that they are unique! You have not even provided any quotes or proof of any kind, just said the word unique thousand times over and over again.... 

Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:31 .