309 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Wait, so they had an option in the game where you could save her, but then they removed it? That doesn't even make sense. As a side note, I killed Dupuis, but that's because he was summoning demons. I didn't think he was the killer, but I thought he was dangerous nonetheless.

Yes if I understood it right they had a version of the quest where Leandra could be saved, but everyone picked to save her in the tests. So actually they should have the material somewhere which should make it even easier to implement it again.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 mars 2011 - 07:00 .

[Icy Magebane]

So they find out that there is one option that most players like, and they remove it.  Again, that doesn't make sense.  Why remove something that people like?  Damnit, if only that corpse hadn't spoken to Hawke... argh... it was just so freaking ... man that quest sucked.  Worse than going to prison in the first Fable, and what happens to you there is bad. *shudder*

I really wish that didn't have to happen to her... games are supposed to give you a break from the world, not shower you with all the crap you're trying to escape from.  IMHO.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 14 mars 2011 - 07:03 .

[RoninTX]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Wait, so they had an option in the game where you could save her, but then they removed it? That doesn't even make sense. As a side note, I killed Dupuis, but that's because he was summoning demons. I didn't think he was the killer, but I thought he was dangerous nonetheless.

Well I thought both, but unless you play an "evil" character I would think most people would kill him regardless, so he would only be kept alive if you kind meta-gamed on your 2nd+ playthrough. ( and even then you would not be sure if that helped)

personally I think mabye it should have been an option if you did ALL the queste involving those murders ( mabye fitted in abit more) and give the feeling they are not connected ( so only Merric is the ONLY clue)
and then even if you missed 1 part of dialogue you cant save her, but there should be just ONE combo of quests/dialogue possible to save your mother.
then it would keep people geussing ( unless you look into the code) what it was that saved her.

[White_Buffalo94]

RoninTX wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
It wasn't a bug, it was changed. They had the option to save her in the game but figured everyone would take it, so they removed it.

I agree mabye on the 2nd or 3rd playthrough, but on the 1st playthrough I am willing to bet that about 90% of the players killed that guy!

I spared DuPuis the first time, thinking that if he wasn't the killer, he could help me later or if he was, he wouldn't kill anyone I cared about. I do wish that with Dupuis being spared you can save her somehow.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

*SPOILERS*
i think they removed that option because of your final decision in the endgame quest
makes you think twice on who to side with mages or templars
which is obvious that most would side with mages
so its kind of evens out your choice to pick who your siding with
your mothers killers kind or the people who took Carver/Bethany if not turned into a Grey Warden

[AlexXIV]

Well you hunt the killer in act 1 already. You even see him, he just runs and you fight demons instead of chasing him. If in act 1 you could for example hire someone to find out about him and pay 20 gold or such, a sum many people would rather keep maybe, then you would have at least a morale option.

Just imagine a stranger approaches you after the quest and says if you give him alot of gold he could try to find out more. People could think he just wants your money, or they could say they rather keep the gold. So if you don't pay him the quest goes like it does in act 2. If you paid him, he approaches you again in act 2 and gives you a clue to the killer so you can catch him right before he starts to make Hawke's mother part of his zombie.

I mean that would have at least been a morale choice. And it would in my opinion have been better than having no way to save her or for example save her in the quest from act 2 alone. So something you did 3 years before to stop a crazy killer would then finally benefit you. That would at least have a better morale than ... **** happens. It would at least have said that you should not let a criminal escape because your mom could be the next victim.

Edit: That's actually another thing. You get to see the killer in act1, but still 3 years pass in which you do nothing to find him. I mean, how hard is it to find a man if you know how he looks like. And he was even known to many in the mages Circle.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 mars 2011 - 07:20 .

[AlexXIV]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

*SPOILERS*
i think they removed that option because of your final decision in the endgame quest
makes you think twice on who to side with mages or templars
which is obvious that most would side with mages
so its kind of evens out your choice to pick who your siding with
your mothers killers kind or the people who took Carver/Bethany if not turned into a Grey Warden

Well but it doesn't work for me. I was undecided between templars and mages. Now I can never side with the mages again, because the first enchanter protected the serial killer so he could kill my mom. So it wasn't quite balancing for me, but rather imbalancing.

[Lawlita]

Meredith citing the mom as an argument was still pretty cold, though.

[ToJKa1]

AlexXIV wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

Can you imagine the outrage if BioWare actually did this? There's complaints about the companion DLC, but an alternative quest solution sold separately as DLC would cause the iinternet to explode. More so than usual, i mean.

It is unfotunate, but it seems the writers wanted to eliminate Hawke's family.

DLCs are optional. The internet didn't explode because of the Darkspawn Chronicles either. I didn't like it, I didn't buy it, that's all.

Yes, but many people would be ranting about receiving incomplete game and having to pay extra for the full one. like they did with day one DLC.

[Vandicus]

I think the game's story was intended to be a tragedy. A tragedy in literature requires that the hero is unable to have that perfect happy ending, and I see Leandra's death as an essential part of that tragedy.

[Kimberly Shaw]

I really felt no connection to my mother at all, she didn't do anything motherly in my play through. Maybe on 2nd playthrough I will care about her. My family was so dysfunctional in the first play through I felt much closer to Varric, Anders and even that wench Merrill!

[Loc'n'lol]

Icy Magebane wrote...

So they find out that there is one option that most players like, and they remove it.  Again, that doesn't make sense.  Why remove something that people like?

They feed on tears.

More seriously, I think it's a better choice from a story perspective. Hawke's story is not a happy one, and as much as Carver's death (not a mage hawke) was pretty forgettable, I found Bethany's and Leandra's quite moving.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

RoninTX wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
It wasn't a bug, it was changed. They had the option to save her in the game but figured everyone would take it, so they removed it.

I agree mabye on the 2nd or 3rd playthrough, but on the 1st playthrough I am willing to bet that about 90% of the players killed that guy!

I spared DuPuis the first time, thinking that if he wasn't the killer, he could help me later or if he was, he wouldn't kill anyone I cared about. I do wish that with Dupuis being spared you can save her somehow.

It was very lame how that choice had absolutely no bearing on further events.

[David Gaider]

AlexXIV wrote...
Yes if I understood it right they had a version of the quest where Leandra could be saved, but everyone picked to save her in the tests. So actually they should have the material somewhere which should make it even easier to implement it again.

The problem wasn't that "everyone picked to save her". It was that everyone thought they had to save her, and would reload/re-do the quest until the got the outcome that was perceived as the most optimum-- even if the result when Leandra dies is more dramatic and has more of an impact on the larger story.

The quest isn't about saving her, after all, it's about putting a more personal face on the darker side of magic and the repercussions it can have on innocents.

If someone doesn't like it, that's fine. Up to you. But DLC is created to add content, not to skip it-- and, no, there is no material anywhere to make this easy to implement. Dialogue after Act 2 assumes that your mother is dead. Period. Sorry, but that's simply the way it is.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Lawlita wrote...

Meredith citing the mom as an argument was still pretty cold, though.

But, 100% on the money. Seriously. Ask yourself this:

What mages did you encounter in the game that did NOT turn to Blood Magic vs what mages you encountered did?

Seriously. Take a moment to think about this carefully.

Still think they're all innocent puppies that need saving?

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 15 mars 2011 - 04:00 .

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
The problem wasn't that "everyone picked to save her". It was that everyone thought they had to save her, and would reload/re-do the quest until the got the outcome that was perceived as the most optimum-- even if the result when Leandra dies is more dramatic and has more of an impact on the larger story.

I loved how the quest went down, but it would have been a neat way to have delayed consequences if in addition to possibly having Leandra die in Act 2 as is, you were able to somehow save Leandra in Act 2 but doing so meant the Blood mage got away to screw over Hawke somehow maybe in Act 3  or later in Act 2. So either way Hawke would face the bad side of blood magic.

Modifié par Brockololly, 15 mars 2011 - 04:06 .

[bambooxfox]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Lawlita wrote...

Meredith citing the mom as an argument was still pretty cold, though.

But, 100% on the money. Seriously. Ask yourself this:

What mages did you encounter in the game that did NOT turn to Blood Magic vs what mages you encountered did?

Seriously. Take a moment to think about this carefully.

Still think they're all innocent puppies that need saving?

The ones who behave themselves you generally don't have to deal with, though (except that one guy who escaped the Circle just to get laid, which was hilarious).

[VettoRyouzou]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Lawlita wrote...

Meredith citing the mom as an argument was still pretty cold, though.

But, 100% on the money. Seriously. Ask yourself this:

What mages did you encounter in the game that did NOT turn to Blood Magic vs what mages you encountered did?

Seriously. Take a moment to think about this carefully.

Still think they're all innocent puppies that need saving?

This is true, If I had played this game with out EVER touching DA:O I'd probably pick templar every time, The only saving grace for mages with me is case I did play DA:O and know not all mages are like that Wynne and The Frist enchanter ((DA:O)) and heck even morrigan left a good impact on me. ((Ok.. mabye not morrigan but she didn't use blood magic atleast!))

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
I loved how the quest went down, but it would have been a neat way to have delayed consequences if in addition to possibly having Leandra die in Act 2 as is, you were able to somehow save Leandra in Act 2 but doing so meant the Blood mage got away to screw over Hawke somehow maybe in Act 3  or later in Act 2. So either way Hawke would face the bad side of blood magic.

An interesting idea, and one that actually did occur to us (just as with many other quests)-- but at the end of the day it's really down to how many permutations we can afford. Hindsight is golden when it comes to such things.

[ashwind]

The only problem I had with Leandra's demise is that the cut scenes and the aftermath does not stir enough drama/emotions. Hawke just lost possibly the last immediate family and he is now all alone in this world... shouldnt there be more... drama.

[Branclem]

I thought the quest was great. Yes, it's disturbing, and that is what makes it a powerful part of the story instead of just another random danger that Hawke needs to deal with.

There were similarly disturbing parts in the first game as well. Remember Hespith's poem and other narration when you are approaching the Broodmother fight? The implications of what she said there still bother me to this day - and that is one of the strongest moments that I remember from Origins.

[WhiteKnyght]

It was sad losing Leandra like that(Although at first I wanted to leave her behind in Lothering for having the gall to blame me for Bethany/Carver's death when they were protecting her), but she was pretty cool after awhile.

That quest was something that surprised me, I expected to get there in time to save her and when that freak said he touched The Maker's face and lived I assumed he had actually resurrected his wife for a minute. It was pretty good even if it did have a sad end.

As for a Leandra DLC, nah, if they are gonna explore any of the Hawke family through DLC I would like to see something about Hawke's father. They don't tell much besides that he was an apostate who escaped the circle, wooed a noblewoman, and trained his kid(s) in magic before dying.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

The Grey Nayr wrote...
As for a Leandra DLC, nah, if they are gonna explore any of the Hawke family through DLC I would like to see something about Hawke's father. They don't tell much besides that he was an apostate who escaped the circle, wooed a noblewoman, and trained his kid(s) in magic before dying.

Your father actually comes off sounding a bit special. I mean, as you say, he manages to wooe a noblewoman away from a counte, one that a picture of the past makes it look like Leandra liked.

Your father was also a mage that some mages in Kirkwall refer to as one of the best of them.

He also befriends a Templar to the point the Templar helps him. He respected this Templar enough to name a son after him.

What I never caught mention of is how your father actually dies. I mean, it's probably for the best. A man like that seems like he'd easily overshadow his children if he was still alive, but I could totally see DLC of your father making sweet love to your mother as he escapes the Circle and takes her with him to the boonies of Fereldan.

[Pudricks]

What I hate about her dying is that our decisions don't matter. There's no way to save her. Our choices don't matter. It's not a consequence of making poor choices along the quest line like killing Dupois. It just happens.

[Cajeb]

The problem I had with the Kirkwall Killer was that Orsino knew about it and supported it. That pushes the entire game into black and white with Templars as good and Mages as evil. I can never replay without metagaming and choosing the Templars now