631 réponses à ce sujet

[tekraa]

You know, I am really quite tired of seeing "0's and 10's don't count in user reviews" because quite frankly, they do count. In a lot of cases most people probably rate games based on "Bad, Average, AWESOME" scale of either a 0-3 for dislike, 4-7 for average, and 8-10 for awesome, and on a more extreme scale, if people like it and would play again it gets a 10, if someone won't play it again, goes straight to zero.

Remember kids, the people and players reviewing this for user reviews are not professionals and do not offer a balanced opinion in most cases, essentially the 0's and 10's should balance each other out at some point.

[tekraa]

Nozybidaj wrote...

ExtinctRPG wrote...

Front page of Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/#!...for-himself-too

LOL I dunno why anyone would be surprised by this.  I'm sure this isn't the first time they have seeded Metacritic or other similar avenues of review sites.  Just the first time they got caught.  Since their advertising budget can't effect the user reviews the same way they can review sites I wouldn't be surprised at all to find part of the marketing team does nothing but this the first week or so after a game is released.

It seems to me this strategy would be more effective down the road a few weeks or months, where an alias cannot be linked to an employee, or atleast won't be looked at as thoroughly, when sales start dropping and people start looking at user reviews and game reviews to decide what game they want to buy with their hard earned money.  Posting a review like the Avanost one and having it displayed on the mainpage on metacritic the day of release was either irresponsible, or a ruse, neither of which we have evidence for toward either direction.

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

Drake Sigar wrote...

I’d just like to call to attention that the overall user score for DA2 is lower on the PS3 than it is on the PC, so there’s no reason to go around blaming us ‘elitist’ PC users anymore

and its not much higher on the 360

[Tirigon]

Otterwarden wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

So if they like their own game and it sells there is no reason to listen to the criticism.

Truer words never spoken.  If they can create the market, then there is no reason to listen to veteran RPG players.

My gut (and long time experience as a visitor to make believe realms of elves, orcs and dragons) tells me that they will see the light long before their players will adapt.

I fear I don´t understand you. Are you agreeing with me or making fun of my comment?

[Taurenul]

This thread put a smile on my face. First it was Egipt, then it was Libia, next?

Bioware vs fans!

[Jrenster]

Why am I not surprised that this is being overblown?

[PrinceLionheart]

Dorian the Monk of Sune wrote...

Drake Sigar wrote...

I’d just like to call to attention that the overall user score for DA2 is lower on the PS3 than it is on the PC, so there’s no reason to go around blaming us ‘elitist’ PC users anymore

and its not much higher on the 360

That has a lot to do with 4Chan spamming the site with low ratings.

[Otterwarden]

[quote]Tirigon wrote...

[quote]Mehbah wrote...

[quote]
Instead Bioware refuses to back down in any way and keeps claiming that the game is perfect, despite all the criticism. So now people are worried that ME3, as well as any future Bioware games, will be dumbed-down crap. ME2 wasn't exactly a step in the right direction, seeing as for every step forward they took, they took at the very least one backward as well. Hell, people were asking for more role playing even in ME1, what with being unable to see what Shepard is going to say and all, and ME2 went even further from role playing and closer to "press button for awesome". People are pissed because Bioware are screwing up their games, and because they refuse to listen to it. Instead, all Bioware cares about is how the gaming press buys into the hype and that the religiously (literally) devoted fanboys buy the games. People wouldn't be "raiding" if Bioware would ****ing listen.
[/quote]

I totally agree with what you say here, but again, let me play devil´s advocate: Just because you and me think so, doesn´t mean everyone thinks so. After all, ME2 sold better than ME1 and (at least I heard, not sure though) better than DAO, in spite of all the (imo very justified) criticism. So if they like their own game and it sells there is no reason to listen to the criticism.

Sad as that may be for us.

[/quote]

Tirigon I certainly wasn't making fun of you, but I've gone back to the original comment to respond to whether I was agreeing.  When I said "truer word were never spoken" I was agreeing with you that a company is not obligated to listen to the criticism of the minority so long as the majority can ensure healthy sales.  However, I followed up with a gut call that there is no Mass Effect audience that will save Dragon Age 2, so I do think that Bioware will listen to the fan base criticism.  In Mass Effect they were drawing from several bases:  SciFi, 1st person shooter, and RPG.  When you set something in a high fantasy world there is less opportunity for cross over appeal;  therfore, I feel this strategy to force multiple streamline changes will backfire. 

Also, the argument that I've read that the negative feedback stemmed from those who wanted to return to BG days is silly.  Clearly there is room to change the model.  Even the Witcher developers have flattered Bioware for their advancements in creating an immersive environment, and from what I understand they will be incorporating some of them in the new release.  This seems to have been a case of too much change, too fast.:  revolution vs. evolution.

[Knabbstabb]

"The immersion and combat of this game are unmatched! A truly moving and fun epic. Anything negative you'll see about this game is an overreaction of personal preference. For what it is, it is flawlessly executed and endlessly entertaining" (emphasis added).

They review their own game with these words just proves everyones complains about it , end of story .

Good bye BioWare was fun why it lasted , too bad .

[Tirigon]

Thanks Otterwarden, now I understand you. Agree with you too :-)

[tekraa]

Ada Wong wrote...

tekraa wrote...

You know, I am really quite tired of seeing "0's and 10's don't count in user reviews" because quite frankly, they do count. In a lot of cases most people probably rate games based on "Bad, Average, AWESOME" scale of either a 0-3 for dislike, 4-7 for average, and 8-10 for awesome, and on a more extreme scale, if people like it and would play again it gets a 10, if someone won't play it again, goes straight to zero.

Remember kids, the people and players reviewing this for user reviews are not professionals and do not offer a balanced opinion in most cases, essentially the 0's and 10's should balance each other out at some point.

The lowest and high scores should be eliminated. This happens in sport too. Board diving, skating, ski jumps, etc. Vote bias was a problem and they got rid of it.

Not my problem though because anyone voting zero for DA2 is clearly a hater. They don't listen to reason.

that is a really poor comparison on the scale of this, because they are usually dealing with between 3-15 judges
in those "events", and we're talking about HUNDREDS of judges here.

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Dorian the Monk of Sune wrote...

Drake Sigar wrote...

I’d just like to call to attention that the overall user score for DA2 is lower on the PS3 than it is on the PC, so there’s no reason to go around blaming us ‘elitist’ PC users anymore

and its not much higher on the 360

That has a lot to do with 4Chan spamming the site with low ratings.

I thought it was rpgcodex. 

Both have console gamers. So whats wrong with Bioware and EA that they have so pissed off the hardcore gamer?

[Drake Sigar]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Dorian the Monk of Sune wrote...

Drake Sigar wrote...

I’d just like to call to attention that the overall user score for DA2 is lower on the PS3 than it is on the PC, so there’s no reason to go around blaming us ‘elitist’ PC users anymore

and its not much higher on the 360

That has a lot to do with 4Chan spamming the site with low ratings.

Stop blindly repeating what you’ve been told by others who’re blindly repeating what they’ve been told. It won't come true, no matter how many times you repeat it. To date there’s been no evidence of a raid.

[Tirigon]

Ada Wong wrote...

The lowest and high scores should be eliminated. This happens in sport too. Board diving, skating, ski jumps, etc. Vote bias was a problem and they got rid of it.

Then "haters" would give 1, and "fanbois" would give 9.

So you eliminate 1 and 9 critics, haters give 2 and fanbois 8. so you el...


You see where this is going, don´t you?

[horas1990]

Ooh that's embarrassing:D

[Linksicle]

Drake Sigar wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Dorian the Monk of Sune wrote...

Drake Sigar wrote...

I’d just like to call to attention that the overall user score for DA2 is lower on the PS3 than it is on the PC, so there’s no reason to go around blaming us ‘elitist’ PC users anymore

and its not much higher on the 360

That has a lot to do with 4Chan spamming the site with low ratings.

Stop blindly repeating what you’ve been told by others who’re blindly repeating what they’ve been told. It won't come true, no matter how many times you repeat it. To date there’s been no evidence of a raid.

the only time anyone on 4chan decided to "bomb" the place with reviews (which was essentially actually taking the time to register and post their thoughts) was after some clueless hack decided to pretend to know what he was talkng about.

[Otterwarden]

You know this is kinda sad. I've been reviewing the other posts in the forum and, from the sidelines, it seems that Bioware is polarizing itself from its fans. What happened to the wonderful company that used to poke fun of me, reminding me of how although they had abandonned daily food intake requirements for the characters I still had to eat?

I know your team anticipated this struggle, you told me so, "RPG's these days are so fast paced, and full of visceral combat. They don't make 'em like they used to where you had to remember to drink water...". It's time to stop playing defense and to offer an olive branch to your fans. You will not bully or buy your way out of this one. The fans have and are speaking and its time to admit that you are listening.

[FearMonkey]

To those of you that think this isn't a big deal, let me first give the definition of the word 'shill'.

shill (shl) Slang
n.
One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

And now let's look at EA's explanation to Kotaku:

EA wrote...

"Of course the people who make the game vote for their own game. That's how it works in the Oscars, that's how it works in the Grammy's and why I'm betting that Barack Obama voted for himself in the last election."

The analogy here is incorrect. Obama pretending to be McCain and telling the world that he voted for Obama would be the proper analogy. The alleged Bioware employee that posted that user review score only had to mention in his review that he was an employee of Bioware and there would be no issue. But he didn't. And that's a problem as the FCC could get involved if someone complains to them about it. Especially if it's being done a lot.

FCC rules
http://www.ftc.gov/o...ementguides.pdf

"§ 255.5. Example 8: An online message board designated for discussions of new music download technology is frequented by MP3 player enthusiasts. They exchange information about new products, utilities, and the functionality of numerous playback devices.

Unbeknownst to the message board community, an employee of a leading playback device manufacturer has been posting messages on the discussion board promoting the manufacturer’s product.

Knowledge of this poster’s employment likely would affect the weight or credibility of her endorsement. Therefore, the poster should clearly and conspicuously disclose her relationship to the manufacturer to members and readers of the message board"

So yes, this *is* a big deal. Anybody who disregards this simply does not have all the facts.

Modifié par FearMonkey, 15 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

[Lukertin]

FearMonkey wrote...
The analogy here is incorrect. Obama pretending to be McCain and telling the world that he voted for Obama would be the proper analogy. The alleged Bioware employee that posted that user review score only had to mention in his review that he was an employee of Bioware and there would be no issue. But he didn't. And that's a problem as the FCC could get involved if someone complains to them about it. Especially if it's being done a lot.

FCC rules
http://www.ftc.gov/o...ementguides.pdf

"§ 255.5. Example 8: An online message board designated for discussions of new music download technology is frequented by MP3 player enthusiasts. They exchange information about new products, utilities, and the functionality of numerous playback devices.

Unbeknownst to the message board community, an employee of a leading playback device manufacturer has been posting messages on the discussion board promoting the manufacturer’s product.

Knowledge of this poster’s employment likely would affect the weight or credibility of her endorsement. Therefore, the poster should clearly and conspicuously disclose her relationship to the manufacturer to members and readers of the message board"

So yes, this *is* a big deal. Anybody who disregards this simply does not have all the facts.

It's pretty obvious that the FCC regulations are aimed at corporations who knowingly assist, encourage, or allow their employees to do the thing they shake their finger at.  That you expect a parent company (EA, in this case) to lord over the employees of their subsidiaries (Bioware), who lives in another country (Canada), and instruct them in detail how to follow not the laws of another country, but the administrative regulations of another country is just laughable.

[Jaradakar]

Man people are crazy...

Did Obama vote for himself? Of course he did.

News flash, Meta critics main score really only tallies reviews by magazines and reviewers. Sure, it's secondary score is based on the PUBLIC and guess what, ANYONE (including an employee who worked on the game) can write a review. Does that mean some are biased? Heck yes. Is that a crime? No, it's not. Did Bioware employees do something wrong? Nope.

I can guarantee that other metacritic public scores have employees rating them, it's not just Bioware.

Frankly, as long as it's not the WHOLE development team chiming in and it's only 1-2 people then it's a moot point because the law of averages will equal things out.

So get over it.

Modifié par Jaradakar, 15 mars 2011 - 10:11 .

[Jaradakar]

@FearMonkey That's absolutely not correct. You act like there is some law against posting a review on an open website that allows anyone in the public to post there thoughts. How is that Obama pretending to be McCain? It's not. If anything using your example it's him posting as an anonymous person saying he voted for Obama, which again there is NOTHING wrong with.

[FearMonkey]

Lukertin wrote...

It's pretty obvious that the FCC regulations are aimed at corporations who knowingly assist, encourage, or allow their employees to do the thing they shake their finger at.  That you expect a parent company (EA, in this case) to lord over the employees of their subsidiaries (Bioware), who lives in another country (Canada), and instruct them in detail how to follow not the laws of another country, but the administrative regulations of another country is just laughable.

When people work for a company, the HR department makes employees sign certain legal forms. My company pretty much requires us to accept all the rules they have on record even if we don't know about such a thing. Like if they update the Jury Duty policy, we are required to read the new policy and agree to it. I'm sure Bioware works the same way. Although, being in Canada, maybe they don't have the same types of rules as we do in the states? Dunno. They do have offices in Austin though. So, probably.

Also, if the Bioware employee acted alone, obviously it's not a case for the FCC. But if this was encouraged by EA or Bioware, then it can be pretty serious. I'm basing my post specifically because the EA PR guy speaking to Kotaku made it sound like it was no big deal and that it happened all the time. Well, clearly it shouldn't be happening all the time. That's my point.

[FearMonkey]

Jaradakar wrote...

@FearMonkey That's absolutely not correct. You act like there is some law against posting a review on an open website that allows anyone in the public to post there thoughts. How is that Obama pretending to be McCain? It's not. If anything using your example it's him posting as an anonymous person saying he voted for Obama, which again there is NOTHING wrong with.

No, the analogy is sound because the person posting the shill review works for Bioware. If he had identified himself as a Bioware employee, there would be no issue.

If Obama was pretending to be McCain but also said "I am actually Obama" while telling people he voted for Obama, there would be no issue.

Other than Obama would be accused of breaking standard LARPing rules.

[Jaradakar]

If I post on a web site that lets ANYONE post reviews and does not require ANY credentials or history or background.

Then it's allowing users to post anonymous, correct?

(Posting as an anonymous person is legal, impersonating someone who you're not is illegal)

In which case it can be ANYONE posting, which means the post could be someone who worked on the project and is massively biased. It could be someone who works at a competitive studio and is massively biased against it.

Really as long as it's not 100+ reviews coming from massivly biased points of view and it's just individuals and it's not a company mandate, there is NOTHING WRONG.

Modifié par Jaradakar, 15 mars 2011 - 10:20 .