631 réponses à ce sujet

[Agent_Dark_]

BIOWARE ARE JUST MISUNDERSTOOD MUCH LIKE HITLER WAS



/thread; Godwin's Law invoked.

[Massadonious1]

Oh noes, not Metacritic.

[Gatt9]

Lukertin wrote...

The SEC doesn't pass legislation, do you even know what you're talking about?

Also, a low-level employee anonymously making posts on the internet is far different than board members or corporate officers doing the same thing.  Far differently.  You cannot compare the two and equate them.  David Manning was an executive, this Hoban guy is a regular joe.  Do us all a favor and leave the lawyering to the lawyers.

You might want to try your hand at reading comprehension,  if you go back and try again,  you'll find that I did not say anywhere that the SEC passed the legislation,  I just said it was passed.

You may also want to note,  it's begining to appear as if it's more than one employee(Something I already said and you completely missed),  and that if more employees are involved it becomes a serious issue.  You might even want to note that I said one employee isn't necessarily a legal issue.

So do us all a favor and read the whole post before trying to sound like you know something about the topic.

[Zavox]

Sigh...

The outrage about what happened here is completely ridiculous. You guys really need to put in some rationality instead of those emotional and over the top responses. What this Bioware employee did (or maybe more) is in no way an isolated incident, it's quite common for companies to do this. Besides, Bioware employees are just as much allowed to post reviews than others are. If you don't want them to post reviews because of bias, you should also be outraged at zero score reviews, or reviews from other companies on Bioware titles (which happens).

Anyway, this unproportionate outrage goes to show how immature and unrational you folks are. Kind of explains the unproportionate emotional outrage about Dragon Age 2 aswell.

[Tirigon]

TwistedComplex wrote...

You know, that´s actually stupid, I mean, combat in DA2 is not entertaining at all. I played DAO on Nightmare, even with mods to make it harder again, but in DA2 I´m just not feeling like it. I´m actually playing on normal, sometimes even turning down  casual, just to get over these annoying "click guy for blowing him up" sequences as fast as possible.

[Tirigon]

Agent_Dark_ wrote...

BIOWARE ARE JUST MISUNDERSTOOD MUCH LIKE HITLER WAS



/thread; Godwin's Law invoked.

Sorry but I couldn´t understand you, too busy looking at Kerrigan:wub:

[Unknownsock]

Zavox wrote...

Sigh...

The outrage about what happened here is completely ridiculous. You guys really need to put in some rationality instead of those emotional and over the top responses. What this Bioware employee did (or maybe more) is in no way an isolated incident, it's quite common for companies to do this. Besides, Bioware employees are just as much allowed to post reviews than others are. If you don't want them to post reviews because of bias, you should also be outraged at zero score reviews, or reviews from other companies on Bioware titles (which happens).

Anyway, this unproportionate outrage goes to show how immature and unrational you folks are. Kind of explains the unproportionate emotional outrage about Dragon Age 2 aswell.

Regardless if other people do it or not, it should not be done.

[Zavox]

Unknownsock wrote...

Regardless if other people do it or not, it should not be done.

Which wasn't my point... I'm pointing out why it's ridiculous that there's so much outrage about it while it's not so uncommon for a developer to do so. There's been enough instances in the past where it happened, but no such outrage happened. Whether it's moral to do so, is something that we can debate on, but in the end will be a matter of opinion. The outrage over this however is way over the top regardless of opinion.

Also, I suggest you read my post a little better, as I've already adressed my stance on the subject. (With arguments, while you provide none)

Zavox wrote...

Besides, Bioware employees are just as much allowed to post reviews than others are. If you don't want them to post reviews because of bias, you should also be outraged at zero score reviews, or reviews from other companies on Bioware titles (which happens).

Modifié par Zavox, 16 mars 2011 - 02:16 .

[Clammo]

From wiki with regard to shilling on the internet, which is what's taken place here, and why so many people are finding it unacceptable:

"In online discussion media, satisfied consumers or "innocent" parties may express specific opinions in order to further the interests of an organization in which they have an interest, such as a commercial vendor or special interest group. Websites may also be set up for the same purpose. For example, an employee of a company that produces a specific product may praise the product anonymously in a discussion forum or group in order to generate interest in that product, service or group. In addition, some shills use sock puppetry where they sign on as one user soliciting recommendations for a specific product or service. They then sign on as a different user pretending to be a satisfied customer of a specific company.

In some jurisdictions and circumstances this type of activity may be illegal. In addition, reputable organizations may prohibit their employees and other interested parties (contractors, agents, etc.) from participating in public forums or discussion groups in which a conflict of interest might arise, or will at least insist that their employees and agents refrain from participating in any way that might create a conflict of interest. For example, the plastic surgery company, Lifestyle Lift, ordered their employees to post fake positive reviews on websites. As a result, they were sued, and ordered to pay $300,000 in damages by the New York Attorney General's office. Said Attorney General Andrew Cuomo: "This company’s attempt to generate business by duping consumers was cynical, manipulative, and illegal. My office has [been] and will continue to be on the forefront in protecting consumers against emerging fraud and deception, including ‘astroturfing,’ on the Internet."[4]

[London]

Add me to the graph of people who don't care.

At this point I think people who dislike the game are just grasping at straws.  Who cares if an employee liked the game?  Game company employees can be gamers too, why can't they have an opinion?

[Dr Bawbag]

SebastianDA wrote...

Add me to the graph of people who don't care.

At this point I think people who dislike the game are just grasping at straws.  Who cares if an employee liked the game?  Game company employees can be gamers too, why can't they have an opinion?

Not read through the entire thread, so not sure what's been said and what hasn't been said and whilst i agree in principle with what you're saying i.e. they have has much right to comment as we do etc, it ignores one important detail - if a company employee wants to pass an opinion, then they should disclose that little bit of information - that they work for the company in question.  Otherwise the company can quite rightly be accused of deceiving their customers.

It's like a hotel owner spaming a hotel reveiw site with positive comments about his pile of sticks only for you to turn up and realise it's a heap of steaming manure. 

[moilami]

SebastianDA wrote...

Add me to the graph of people who don't care.

At this point I think people who dislike the game are just grasping at straws.  Who cares if an employee liked the game?  Game company employees can be gamers too, why can't they have an opinion?

They can have opinions in their blogs, forums, pub etc. etc. but it would be appreciated if they don't try to manipulate gamer score anonymously after blaming publicly 4chan of manipulating the gamer score.

Secondly, EA and BW have hundreds of employees. If it would become a tradition for them to go "rate" each released game it could happen that majority of ratings would be given by the employees (thus we could not talk anymore of gamer score). This would lead to need for Blizzard do the same with their games, and after that EA/BW would rate low Blizzard's games to make them go lower than EA/BW, and after that Blizzard would rate low EA/BW games. It would be just a mess.

If BW/EA/any corporation employee want to rate their games it is best done with real name outside of gamer scores.


Edit: Gamers could rightfully say to game company employees "get off my lawn!" And metacritic could say that too, but they don't because it would be bad for advertisement income.

Modifié par moilami, 16 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

moilami wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

Add me to the graph of people who don't care.

At this point I think people who dislike the game are just grasping at straws.  Who cares if an employee liked the game?  Game company employees can be gamers too, why can't they have an opinion?

They can have opinions in their blogs, forums, pub etc. etc. but it would be appreciated if they don't try to manipulate gamer score anonymously after blaming publicly 4chan of manipulating the gamer score.

Secondly, EA and BW have hundreds of employees. If it would become a tradition for them to go "rate" each released game it could happen that majority of ratings would be given by the employees (thus we could not talk anymore of gamer score). This would lead to need for Blizzard do the same with their games, and after that EA/BW would rate low Blizzard's games to make them go lower than EA/BW, and after that Blizzard would rate low EA/BW games. It would be just a mess.

If BW/EA/any corporation employee want to rate their games it is best done with real name outside of gamer scores.

one developer is suddenly trying to 'manipulate' the game score by posting one positive review on metacritic? I'm sure Bioware developers have better things to do than create Metacritic accounts and write multiple reviews; surely EA would have someone else do it, were they so interested.

So how is stating what you think about the game in one, single review 'manipulating' scores? Do you really think Bioware assigned one of its engineers to write... a user review on metacritic instead of, you know, working on a PROJECT? Surely there's a small chance that he did it out of his own free will and Bioware as a company was not involved?

that you think everyone at bioware would agree to mess up scores for other games and try to silence the dissent over their own products by mass-rating their games on metacritic is... jumping to conclusions.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 16 mars 2011 - 03:41 .

[conductor_bosh]

 It doesn't surprise me that no official reps have weighed in on this thread. They've definitely seen it; some have likely read it. When will they man up?

I liked DA2, on its own. But DA:O deserved much better. And even though I enjoyed the game, it makes me fear for the future of RPGs. Bioware used to be the one company that gave me hope for the future of RPGs.

I hope that it's only EAs influence, and that somehow Bioware can retain creative control even when owned by the frightening Megacorp. I hate that Bioware is owned by such a lowest common denominator company.

But I believe in Bioware, and I'm going to keep buying their games. Dragon Age 2 was fun, I thought so, anyway, and it could go somewhere great. I'll wait 'till DA 3 to come to a final verdict.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

conductor_bosh wrote...

 It doesn't surprise me that no official reps have weighed in on this thread. They've definitely seen it; some have likely read it. When will they man up?

I liked DA2, on its own. But DA:O deserved much better. And even though I enjoyed the game, it makes me fear for the future of RPGs. Bioware used to be the one company that gave me hope for the future of RPGs.

I hope that it's only EAs influence, and that somehow Bioware can retain creative control even when owned by the frightening Megacorp. I hate that Bioware is owned by such a lowest common denominator company.

But I believe in Bioware, and I'm going to keep buying their games. Dragon Age 2 was fun, I thought so, anyway, and it could go somewhere great. I'll wait 'till DA 3 to come to a final verdict.

and what do you want them to say, exactly? "Sorry for letting one of our employees write a user review on Metacritic? We apologize for the inconvenience of being unable to monitor our workers 24 hours a day. It won't happen again."

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 16 mars 2011 - 03:43 .

[Zavox]

moilami wrote...

Secondly, EA and BW have hundreds of employees. If it would become a tradition for them to go "rate" each released game it could happen that majority of ratings would be given by the employees (thus we could not talk anymore of gamer score). This would lead to need for Blizzard do the same with their games, and after that EA/BW would rate low Blizzard's games to make them go lower than EA/BW, and after that Blizzard would rate low EA/BW games. It would be just a mess.

That's already happening on a smaller and indirect scale so it's hardly noticable. Riling up opposing developer's fanbase by various means and such. Neither do I doubt that various zero ratings on various games have been made by people (other developers) with ulterior motives. Thus they are just as much biased as that Bioware employee is.

Clammo...

From wiki with regard to shilling on the internet, which is what's taken
place here, and why so many people are finding it unacceptable:

"wall of quoted text"

Yes, but your argument falls in the water on the premise that shilling is only illegal if there's a risk of loss and an untruthful picture is portrayed. In the review there's no such thing.

[Tekman9]

im not reading this thread, but who gives a ****. can anyone say complete non issue? a metacritic user review??? do all the other people that submit reviews have to preface them with things like 'oh i dont actually own the game but...'

[tekraa]

Don't forget this is a question of ETHICS, people should not be jumping on bioware for what their employee did, or defending them because "sure, other companies do this", as a consumer it comes down to ETHICS and frankly, it is just wrong to praise your product without stating that you are an interested party.

[tekraa]

Zavox wrote...
Yes, but your argument falls in the water on the premise that shilling is only illegal if there's a risk of loss and an untruthful picture is portrayed. In the review there's no such thing.

This is a matter of opinion.  If people read his review and bought the game, played, and disliked it, then one can consider the damages monetary in the purchase of the game.

[moilami]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

moilami wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

Add me to the graph of people who don't care.

At this point I think people who dislike the game are just grasping at straws.  Who cares if an employee liked the game?  Game company employees can be gamers too, why can't they have an opinion?

They can have opinions in their blogs, forums, pub etc. etc. but it would be appreciated if they don't try to manipulate gamer score anonymously after blaming publicly 4chan of manipulating the gamer score.

Secondly, EA and BW have hundreds of employees. If it would become a tradition for them to go "rate" each released game it could happen that majority of ratings would be given by the employees (thus we could not talk anymore of gamer score). This would lead to need for Blizzard do the same with their games, and after that EA/BW would rate low Blizzard's games to make them go lower than EA/BW, and after that Blizzard would rate low EA/BW games. It would be just a mess.

If BW/EA/any corporation employee want to rate their games it is best done with real name outside of gamer scores.

one developer is suddenly trying to 'manipulate' the game score by posting one positive review on metacritic? I'm 

Ever heard the phrase "tip of the iceberg"?

My argument was anyway just an example why it is bad for devs to begin to rate their games in gamer score sites.

People doesn't need their anonymous reviews there, and in the end it is just trouble for all devs. Better stop it before starting it.


Edit: It is just ugly practise.

Modifié par moilami, 16 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[augustburnt]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

moilami wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

Add me to the graph of people who don't care.

At this point I think people who dislike the game are just grasping at straws.  Who cares if an employee liked the game?  Game company employees can be gamers too, why can't they have an opinion?

They can have opinions in their blogs, forums, pub etc. etc. but it would be appreciated if they don't try to manipulate gamer score anonymously after blaming publicly 4chan of manipulating the gamer score.

Secondly, EA and BW have hundreds of employees. If it would become a tradition for them to go "rate" each released game it could happen that majority of ratings would be given by the employees (thus we could not talk anymore of gamer score). This would lead to need for Blizzard do the same with their games, and after that EA/BW would rate low Blizzard's games to make them go lower than EA/BW, and after that Blizzard would rate low EA/BW games. It would be just a mess.

If BW/EA/any corporation employee want to rate their games it is best done with real name outside of gamer scores.

one developer is suddenly trying to 'manipulate' the game score by posting one positive review on metacritic? I'm sure Bioware developers have better things to do than create Metacritic accounts and write multiple reviews; surely EA would have someone else do it, were they so interested.

So how is stating what you think about the game in one, single review 'manipulating' scores? Do you really think Bioware assigned one of its engineers to write... a user review on metacritic instead of, you know, working on a PROJECT? Surely there's a small chance that he did it out of his own free will and Bioware as a company was not involved?

that you think everyone at bioware would agree to mess up scores for other games and try to silence the dissent over their own products by mass-rating their games on metacritic is... jumping to conclusions.

Clearly they dont have better things to do, have you played DA2... yea.

[Maverick827]

moilami wrote...

Ever heard the phrase "tip of the iceberg"?

Ever heard of the phrase "slippery slope?"

[moilami]

Maverick827 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Ever heard the phrase "tip of the iceberg"?

Ever heard of the phrase "slippery slope?"

y, I like it.

Should give good motivation for those who are not weak and therefore delusionally not tagging on "ignorance is strenght" phrase by saying /care while pretending to be cool to not do the wrong thing.


Edit: It is no brainer to not do something which can lead to unwanted "domino effect". So say hi to slippery slope

Modifié par moilami, 16 mars 2011 - 04:31 .

[fn_outlaw]

People are still focused on the one guy, but it says later in the post that there were MULTIPLE Bio employees, so...yeah, not the actions of ONE individual.

The reason why its a big deal is because it points at ethics. Legal or not it isn't right.

[Zavox]

tekraa wrote...

Zavox wrote...
Yes, but your argument falls in the water on the premise that shilling is only illegal if there's a risk of loss and an untruthful picture is portrayed. In the review there's no such thing.

This is a matter of opinion.  If people read his review and bought the game, played, and disliked it, then one can consider the damages monetary in the purchase of the game.

No, he's not painting an untruthful picture. He's giving an opinion in which he doesn't lie about anything, so he's not doing anything illegal.