166 réponses à ce sujet

[Whisky]

They did it in Origins too, remember the dragon cavern? But in DA2, they take it to another whole new level.

[the_one_54321]

I remember monsters in DA:O dropping from ceilings, running out of doors, flying off and then landing in new spots. I do remember some smaller instances of monsters appearing from thin air and they really upset me, but they were very few compared to this spawning waves things in DAII.

[Zem_]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I remember monsters in DA:O dropping from ceilings, running out of doors, flying off and then landing in new spots. I do remember some smaller instances of monsters appearing from thin air and they really upset me, but they were very few compared to this spawning waves things in DAII.

Ambushing is one thing and it's appropriate if done sparingly as it was in Origins.  When everything is a "suprise" attack, it ceases to become a surprise.  Even so, the specific example in Origins where there were waves of spawning enemies was one particular cavern room in the Deep Roads where stalkers kept coming out of nowhere.  But they at least had a reason to.

I really think it's simply the case that the development time for DA2 was so much shorter than DA:O.  They didn't have time (or enough people) to develop as many areas they could populate with enemies so they just stacked them up in each encounter and stuffed them into the smaller spaces they did have.

[Bathead]

It aslo happened a couple of times in the Korcari wilds in DA:O . Darkspawn would just suddeny appear out of nowhere.

[The Brigand]

Bathead wrote...

It aslo happened a couple of times in the Korcari wilds in DA:O . Darkspawn would just suddeny appear out of nowhere.

Technically, the darkspawn in question were already there, but were hiding in stealth mode.

EDIT: I don't mean that in a "Well, this is how I'll explain away the silliness" way, either. They were literally hiding in stealth mode. You can actually hear their gutteral growling in the areas you find stealthed genlocks, and certain attack skills can be used to uncover them before they attack .

Modifié par The Brigand, 21 mars 2011 - 10:12 .

[the_one_54321]

All the darkspawn that appeared from nowhere in DA:O gave you a plain auditory queue before it happened. I remember specifically hearing the growls, stopping, and setting up for combat.

[PullThePin07]

maybe everyone is in stealth mode?

Seriously though, why does it matter? It's a game, yeah, I realize that it may break from realism with the whole spawning in outta nowhere, but doesn't the fact that you can wield magic kinda do that too, or the fact that you don't die in one hit from that massive sword some guy is using? just sayin'.

[the_one_54321]

PullThePin07 wrote...
Seriously though, why does it matter?

Because it's lazy, cheap development, and that matters. This is BioWare saying "we are going to cut corners, not care about how combat unfurls, and drop it all in your lap as though it's perfectly ok. And we're going to increase the cost of the game while we're at it." 

[Galad22]

PullThePin07 wrote...

maybe everyone is in stealth mode?

Seriously though, why does it matter? It's a game, yeah, I realize that it may break from realism with the whole spawning in outta nowhere, but doesn't the fact that you can wield magic kinda do that too, or the fact that you don't die in one hit from that massive sword some guy is using? just sayin'.

It's annoying and makes combat absolutely horrid.

[PullThePin07]

the_one_54321 wrote...

PullThePin07 wrote...
Seriously though, why does it matter?

Because it's lazy, cheap development, and that matters. This is BioWare saying "we are going to cut corners, not care about how combat unfurls, and drop it all in your lap as though it's perfectly ok. And we're going to increase the cost of the game while we're at it." 

Depends on what else they have on their plate and what is the best way to execute the manuver. I mean, yeah, it would have been cool to have them rope down and some bust outta door ways and all that fun stuff, but is that worth all the time and coding just for that? It would be nice but not needed IMO.

Maybe I just don't dive into games enough for this to be a problem and this type of game seems to have this feature as a standard.

As for cost, I dunno about charging more, I paid what I always pay for games. no more, no less.

[PullThePin07]

Galad22 wrote...

It's annoying and makes combat absolutely horrid.

How so? if you don't mind me asking.

[the_one_54321]

PullThePin07 wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
It's annoying and makes combat absolutely horrid.

How so? if you don't mind me asking.

Because it breaks consistency in the combat setting. And the only excuse it has for doing this is "I didn't feel like animating them walking through a door."

[Capeo]

Galad22 wrote...

PullThePin07 wrote...

maybe everyone is in stealth mode?

Seriously though, why does it matter? It's a game, yeah, I realize that it may break from realism with the whole spawning in outta nowhere, but doesn't the fact that you can wield magic kinda do that too, or the fact that you don't die in one hit from that massive sword some guy is using? just sayin'.

It's annoying and makes combat absolutely horrid.

Combat in DAO was the definition of repetive horridness.  It was by far the worst part of the game.  The current combat system is better in every way.  People are just pissed that they can't sit thier mage just through a doorway and spam AOEs all day on a fire resistant Tank whose holding the line.  Yeah, that's super "tactical".  Tactics on the fly with constant changing flanks is far more gratifying.

[Meltemph]

It is a natural problem, when you try and speed up combat but at the same time try and give the player enough time to enjoy said combat. You end up going through baddies to quick and it ends up diminishing the combat, unless you "spawn more mobs".

DAO did this a little better in the area's with spawn mobs by trying to hide it, but because of the area designs of most of the places you fight, it was harder to do. If they gave you less mobs but made them last longer and fight better that would be the preferred outcome to me, but that requires a better AI in fights then DAO and DA2's stupids.

[Galad22]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Because it breaks consistency in the combat setting. And the only excuse it has for doing this is "I didn't feel like animating them walking through a door."

What he said.

Also this is how combat is for me every single time combat happens, which is a lot.

8 bandits, kill them.
8 more bandits, kill them too.
And 8 more of the damn bandits, kill them too.

I hate it, it is annoying and makes combat and whole game feel like a waste of time for me.

[thats1evildude]

I'm cool with it. But I like a high body count in my battles.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 mars 2011 - 10:50 .

[PullThePin07]

Galad22 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Because it breaks consistency in the combat setting. And the only excuse it has for doing this is "I didn't feel like animating them walking through a door."

What he said.

Also this is how combat is for me every single time combat happens, which is a lot.

8 bandits, kill them.
8 more bandits, kill them too.
And 8 more of the damn bandits, kill them too.

I hate it, it is annoying and makes combat and whole game feel like a waste of time for me.

So you would rather them have all 24 come at you at once? How else are you gonna change up combat?

[Sidney]

The Brigand wrote...

Bathead wrote...

It aslo happened a couple of times in the Korcari wilds in DA:O . Darkspawn would just suddeny appear out of nowhere.

Technically, the darkspawn in question were already there, but were hiding in stealth mode.

EDIT: I don't mean that in a "Well, this is how I'll explain away the silliness" way, either. They were literally hiding in stealth mode. You can actually hear their gutteral growling in the areas you find stealthed genlocks, and certain attack skills can be used to uncover them before they attack .

Yeah well they also had that throw away line about the Darkspawn hiding in the ground didn't they? I remember thinking I was gonna be fighting undead gophers the first time through.

[ihateea2]

This really annoys me a lot. It limits an important part of the tactical combat (positioning). In DA:O you could often see where the enemies were before you got there, set up an ambush, and pull to the group.

In DA2, you can't see where the enemies are before you get there because they aren't even there until you get there, they really do just pop out of nowhere. This doesn't make the fight more challenging, it makes them more dull, because they all start the same way.

Oh, and lets not forget how party members on hold will start to follow you now when you get halfway across the room. Ridiculous. Pulling and scouting were fun parts of DA:O, which are pretty much gone in DA2.

Normally what I do is, as soon as the enemies pop out of nowhere, I hit pause. Then I issue movement commands to my party to get them into a better tactical position (usually a nearby hallway or some other choke point), and then it's on.

I'm enjoying the game overall, but these kinds of things have really watered down the tactical aspects of the combat, which was really the best thing about DA:O.

On the other hand, sustainables now stay on when combat ends, so there's something.

[Galad22]

PullThePin07 wrote...

So you would rather them have all 24 come at you at once? How else are you gonna change up combat?

If you really really have to had 24 enemies upon you, yes it would be better, at least you would know when you are finished with that fight.

But there is no need of hordes of these trash mobs, just have less of them but make them stronger, yeah and less combat overall. You can't step 5 meters in kirkwall without fighting some enemies or another.

Modifié par Galad22, 21 mars 2011 - 11:09 .

[Akka le Vil]

Capeo wrote...

Combat in DAO was the definition of repetive horridness.  It was by far the worst part of the game.

Well, we can say that for this part, DA2 is a true heir of DAO then...

The current combat system is better in every way.

Maybe the system is better, but the animations and design of the fights themselves is the total opposite.

People are just pissed that they can't sit thier mage just through a doorway and spam AOEs all day on a fire resistant Tank whose holding the line.  Yeah, that's super "tactical".  Tactics on the fly with constant changing flanks is far more gratifying.

I'm tired of this sh*t about countless waves of spawning out of thin air mob is "tactical", but then I remind myself that people enjoying beat-them-all are probably not the ones who actually have any kind of idea about what "tactical" means.

[The Brigand]

Akka le Vil wrote...
I'm tired of this sh*t about countless waves of spawning out of thin air mob is "tactical", but then I remind myself that people enjoying beat-them-all are probably not the ones who actually have any kind of idea about what "tactical" means.

Didn't you know? During World War II, George S. Patton had to deal with axis soldiers spawning right on top of his tanks multiple times after believing he'd just successfully routed them.

[aphelion002]

Paxhell wrote...

Where do they come from?? an airplane?

Now I realize the real reason for removing the isometric camera. With that camera, this would look so blatantly obvious that not even the most delusional fanboy could claim it was "artfully done".

[Sidney]

ihateea2 wrote...

This really annoys me a lot. It limits an important part of the tactical combat (positioning). In DA:O you could often see where the enemies were before you got there, set up an ambush, and pull to the group.

If pulling is gone all the better. Pulling isn't "tactical" it is cheese of the first order and relies on a brain dead UI that never recognizes a fatal funnel. Most of the time you need to go through them, they don't have to come to you so why don't they set up the chokepoint and make you bleed on their swords?

I'm not sure how "seeing before you got there" is really tactical either unless your Warden employed an AWACS. That long range radar was always lousy feeling.

DAO did some pop out of nowhere (mostly Spiders and Shades that sort of made sense doing it). DA2 usually has the coming from all streets/tunnels but the worst are the guys who just drop out of the sky in the city ambushes.

[The Brigand]

Sidney wrote...

If pulling is gone all the better.

I regret to inform you that pulling isn't gone. In fact, it's gotten more effective than ever.