14 réponses à ce sujet

[SansSariph]

Just killed Fenris and I almost don't feel like playing anymore.

When I saw him a second time I figured I could convince him to switch sides, but guess not. I had been at about 75% rivalry, did his personal quests. I missed the book gift so maybe that was it.

Regardless, he'd seemed to be coming around in our talks. The sword gift made me think I screwed up because when I offered it to him he blew up at me.

I'm just really... annoyed. He'd been in my party since I got him, we had respect for each other (he said as much). I never had an option to "convince" him, he basically just told me we were going to kill each other. Now he's dead. Oops. Leaves a really sour taste in my mouth given how much "progress" I'd made with him. When Isabela ran off I didn't care because I'd never used "developed" her.

Then I thought Carver was supposed to join me again (maybe he still will?), but at the confrontation between Meredith and Orsino it seems he made the choice to join Meredith. If I have to kill him I probably won't even finish the game, since I'd been trying to roleplay affectionate sibling rivalry. Furthermore I saved his life so WTF is he doing.

I dunno, just really agitated and had to vent. Carver joining the templars? I liked it, it was unexpected and played on our rivalry. Isabela running off? Made sense.

Fenris turning against me? Okay, fine. No option to talk him down? Bull****.
Carver standing against me when pressed? Bull****.

[RosaAquafire]

You can talk Fenris down, but only if you're at least 25% friendship. If you got to 100% rivalry, he won't leave you in the first place.

[Sarah1281]

That's so weird. Why doesn't he leave you if he's that much against you?

And I'm pretty sure Carver refuses to fight you at the end.

[SansSariph]

Yeah, I just got to Meredith. Carver and Cullen sided with me and it made me smile.

Still grumpy about Fenris. Guess 75% rivalry isn't enough

[Kemmer]

The way rivalry works, you've basically been confronting him with another point of view over the long haul. Despite how much it irks him, at 100% rivalry, you now have a mutual respect and he's learned to trust your judgment even when he doesn't agree with you. As for Carver, as bitter as he is over Bethany and Mama Hawke, he will still stand by you.

[Kitaen]

SansSariph wrote...

Just killed Fenris and I almost don't feel like playing anymore.

When I saw him a second time I figured I could convince him to switch sides, but guess not. I had been at about 75% rivalry, did his personal quests. I missed the book gift so maybe that was it.

Regardless, he'd seemed to be coming around in our talks. The sword gift made me think I screwed up because when I offered it to him he blew up at me.

I'm just really... annoyed. He'd been in my party since I got him, we had respect for each other (he said as much). I never had an option to "convince" him, he basically just told me we were going to kill each other. Now he's dead. Oops. Leaves a really sour taste in my mouth given how much "progress" I'd made with him. When Isabela ran off I didn't care because I'd never used "developed" her.

Then I thought Carver was supposed to join me again (maybe he still will?), but at the confrontation between Meredith and Orsino it seems he made the choice to join Meredith. If I have to kill him I probably won't even finish the game, since I'd been trying to roleplay affectionate sibling rivalry. Furthermore I saved his life so WTF is he doing.

I dunno, just really agitated and had to vent. Carver joining the templars? I liked it, it was unexpected and played on our rivalry. Isabela running off? Made sense.

Fenris turning against me? Okay, fine. No option to talk him down? Bull****.
Carver standing against me when pressed? Bull****.

First of all, I just want to say that you shouldn't have to 'buy' your friends friendship with gifts. They should be there because the character wanted to give it to that character, regardless of gender, just because they felt like it.

Secondly, you should not expect any less from Fenris. He has a brooding, arrogant personality, which is obvious if you have him in party with Merrill and you talk to him a few times. So for him to eventually oppose the PC should not be a surprise especially if the PC is a mage.

Lastly, Carver hated you from the get go. He is always whining about being under your shadow but never makes a move to 'get out' on his own to do just that. He even says continuously that 'I'm not my sister" or "brother" and is hotheaded when dealing with people. Don't forget that he was even denied entry into the Guard due to his lack of caring for anyone but himself. I understand that he feels that he doesn't have alot of ties to the family, but after his namesake revelation, he should have been more amicable, yet he is still angry and disruptive. I particularly hated him and was glad to keep him on rivalry, because he truly made no attempt to settle his own demons much less be a useful contribution to the family.

Modifié par Kitaen, 14 mars 2011 - 09:34 .

[Sarah1281]

[qoute] First of all, I just want to say that you shouldn't have to 'buy' your friends friendship with gifts. They should be there because the character wanted to give it to that character, regardless of gender, just because they felt like it. [/quote] Well, no matter how much you might honestly want to give a character a gift, if they are a rival they might not accept it. It's not about 'buying' friends.

[quote] Lastly, Carver hated you from the get go. [/quote] He does not. He's jealous and insecure but he doesn't hate you and he won't fight you. He mentions that he identifies with Gamlen and despite all the jealousy and resentment Gamlen shows towards Leandra, you see how broken up he is about her death. No hatred there.

[HumanVintage]

I like it that your companions have their own opinions and deep convictions in DA:2. However much Fenris might respect you, he won't easily turn against his deep beliefs regarding mages and support the rise of a new Magister state... I also assume that Anders absolutely will not side with the Templars, even if he likes you quite a bit.

I was ultimately able to talk Fenris into joining me in the end fight, by comparing the mage plight to slavery. In some ways, I'd rather he stuck to his guns. Fenris has a lot of reasons to hate mages... and I don't mind if my convictions cause him to leave/ turn against me.

If I had rivalry with Fenris, I definitely wouldn't expect him to turn against his beliefs and help me side with the mages. Why would a guy who doesn't agree with anything I stand for, suddenly decide to support me in doing something he deeply opposes? As a rival, what could you possibly say to Fenris that would convince him to support mage freedom? He may respect you, but ultimately, he thinks your mission is wrong.

Regarding Carver -- In my case, he stuck with the Templars until the very last moment. Once he saw clearly that Merideth was insane, he participated in the fight against her. I don't think he ever rejoined my party. but he did aid me in the end. Which seemed satisfying to me.

I do understand your frustration. I would have been very sad to kill Fenris... he's a wonderful character, and I enjoyed his friendship. But I respect the hell out of Bioware for making a game where you cannot have a perfect, pretty, everyone is happy ending. The NPCs feel more alive in DA2 for that reason. Everyone believes in something greater than the Player Character, and nothing is black and white/ good and evil. Everything is a lovely shade of grey.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's so weird. Why doesn't he leave you if he's that much against you?

And I'm pretty sure Carver refuses to fight you at the end.

Rivalry in this game=/ disapproval as in Origins.  It's agreeing to disagree, except for certain conditions where they do leave.

I did a rivalry romance with Fenris (as a mage).  He tells Hawke that he doesn't agree with her but respects her, and in the final she sided with the mages and he said "I think this a mistake but I'll stand by you."  He was at 100% rivalry though.

Carver says "I don't want to fight you" and in the end he refuses to help Meredith kill you.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 mars 2011 - 09:48 .

[Kitaen]

[quote]Sarah1281 wrote...

[quote]Well, no matter how much you might honestly want to give a character a gift, if they are a rival they might not accept it. It's not about 'buying' friends.[/quote]

Of course they might not accept it, but thats normal.
Giving them gifts to raise your rep with them is 'buying' friendship. Give it to them because you are already friends, not to make them as such.


[quote]He does not. He's jealous and insecure but he doesn't hate you and he won't fight you. He mentions that he identifies with Gamlen and despite all the jealousy and resentment Gamlen shows towards Leandra, you see how broken up he is about her death. No hatred there. [/quote]

I'm sorry to have to say, but I have to disagree with you, hun.
Carver resents your success and he wants nothing more than to get out from what he percieves as your looming shadow of accomplishments. No, he wont fight you, right off, he isn't stupid. He knows you will faceplant him.
Additionally, Gamlen is an interesting character, a scoundrel, but interesting. Its understandable he never expected the sister to return, but that doesnt mean he should have squandered the fortune or the estate, and the fact that Carver can identify with him shows alot about Carvers true nature.

[Sarah1281]

Of course they might not accept it, but thats normal.
Giving them gifts to raise your rep with them is 'buying' friendship. Give it to them because you are already friends, not to make them as such.

It IS a game. Giving gifts raise approval. That's kind of the point of them.

I'm sorry to have to say, but I have to disagree with you, hun.
Carver resents your success and he wants nothing more than to get out from what he percieves as your looming shadow of accomplishments. No, he wont fight you, right off, he isn't stupid. He knows you will faceplant him.

Being resentful and jealous of you doesn't mean he hates you. As he's a templar at this point and you're a mage, it's not stupid for him to try to go up against you and he doesn't seem scared to fight you. He just honesetly doesn't want to kill his own sibling. Just because he desperately wants to find a life outside of you doesn't mean he actually has to hate you. If he did, all it would take is one discreet tip-off to the templars before the big expedition when you become rich enough to handle yourself.

Additionally, Gamlen is an interesting character, a scoundrel, but interesting. Its understandable he never expected the sister to return, but that doesnt mean he should have squandered the fortune or the estate, and the fact that Carver can identify with him shows alot about Carvers true nature.

I know he shouldn't have done that and I'm not defending him. Carver didn't say he thought Gamlen was in the right either, he just said that he found it difficult to hate Gamlen for what he did because he could sympathize with how much Gamlen clearly felt like he was in Leandra's shadow. I don't think merely feeling like you're in the shadow of a more favored or accomplished child automatically 'shows a lot about [someone's] true nature.'

[HumanVintage]

Addai67 wrote...
Rivalry in this game=/ disapproval as in Origins.  It's agreeing to disagree, except for certain conditions where they do leave.
.

Ohh... so that's how it works. Thank you for clarifying. I didn't realize that rivalry and disapproval were so different from each other. 

Now romancing a rival makes a lot more sense to me. (Although I can't imagine its a very happy relationship!). Thanks again. 

[Lirea Dragonage]

I wasn't really expecting Fenris to side with me (I shall have to try for 100% rival next time rather than 75%) and I felt a little sad about killing him. I loved my reunion with Carver though and I wanted to kiss Cullen for taking my side - after all he'd been through at the Fereldan Circle I think it was pretty big of him to turn against Meredith.

[EndreK2714]

What's strange for me is I had romance with Fenris as a female mage, although he did not join me at the end and I had to kill him. Although in the final cut scene, Varrick says that in the end, every companion left Hawke, only Fenris stick with her. I hoped at first that he wasn't slain and followed Hawke, but now I guess it's just a bug...

[LobselVith8]

He joins you if you compare the Chantry controlled Circle to slavery (he did for me, at least).