238 réponses à ce sujet

[ankuu]

You spoke my mind! The op is exactly how i feel about the game. When i entered Act 3 and went to the quest when the chantry goes kaboom i wasn't even finished with the sidequest i was totally taken by surprise! The ending was a big bad surprise...it came so quick, it felt so awkward...The question "Who do i side with?" came more from the exp i had with DAO, where the mages were captives and templars were bad. In DA2, they wanted to redeem the templars i think, but making all apostates blood mages was not a good idea. Why? Cause i didn't even payed attention to that until after the game finished and thought, "How many were actually not crazy?".

The only moment that moved me was when mama Hawke died (Act 2 ftw) and when i fought the Arishok! As you said, great character development on that one.

EDIT: and yes i necro'd a thread, but it happened because i followed a dA link from a meme and wanted to know more xD

Modifié par ankuu, 16 avril 2011 - 09:32 .

[dreepa]

I didnt read the entire thread, but just the first 2 pages... but I have to agree that whoever was working on Act 2 is a really great story teller. Act 3 was your typical boring "evil guy goes nuts, you have to stop him" story and it felt very cheap....

[Uzzy]

The OP is entirely right. By putting in a mass of blood mages, red lyrium insano idols and demons, Act 3 is robbed of its human nature. What should have been a clash of philosophies and the debate between security and freedom is turned into putting down two monsters, which is really disappointing.

Act 2 really should have introduced you to Meredith and Orsino, through the vehicle of going to see your sister/brother. Add in the philosophical and ethical debate through talking to the mages and templars, apostates and the chantry. There's a great moment where this is almost done, in rival Anders 'Questioning Beliefs' bit in Act 2. He gave my Hawke a well reasoned argument, backed by theology, to convince 'someone like me' why mages should be free. If all the Mage vs Templars conflict had been dealt with as much subtilty and care, then Act 3 would have been excellent. Instead it's an utter mess.

[Taritu]

This is good. Although I had some gameplay issues, when I was still in Act II, I was all "this story is great!" Now, after having finished Act III, I'm very much in the "what is this mess" camp. A bad ending can ruin an entire story you've been enjoying, and for me, this game did that. Just not having Orsino go terminally stupid in Act III would have helped a lot (I mean, he turns into the Harvester to attack me, his ally? WTF? If you want him to be evil, have him survive till the fight with Meredith, then go all Harvester to kill her.)

And I felt like who I sided with didn't matter at all. Other than Bethany, did I save any mages?

[uanime5]

I agree with a lot of the poster about how bad the ending in Act 3 was. Here are my idea regarding how it could have been better.

1) In Act 3 if you side with the mages Orsino states that he always felt that Meredith would use the right of Annulment and he has a plan to help save most of the mages. The plan involves Orsino and several volunteer mages using blood magic to turn into a pride abomination / flesh golem to give the remaining mages time to escape through a secret tunnel. Orsino mentions that he was able to do this thanks to the research of Quentin. Hawke mentions that Quentin killed his mother but Orsino can't respond because he starts transforming. Orsino then charges into the Gallows as your ally and helps you fight against Meredith and a vast number of Templars. After you win the battle Varric tell the Seeker that you retreated with the mages while Orsino was killed by Templar archers on boats (the boats were too far away for the Harvester to attack and it couldn't swim). The escaped mages then encourage other circles to revolt.

2) In Act 3 if you side with the Templars Meridith doesn't have a magic sword that can bring statues to life because it's nonsensical, instead she eats her 'special lyrium' before the battle to become more powerful (Templars are addicted to Lyrium). Hawke can then ask Meridith about the special lyrium and learn that it was the idol Bartrand sold. If you've completed Varric's quest you can comment that it made Bartrand insane but Meridith will dismiss this by claiming Bartrand was weak. Meridith then gives a speech about how dangerous mages are when the Harvester breaks out of the Gallows and starts attacking everyone. You then have to fight the Harvester with the support of waves of Templars and Meridith, who uses her special lyrium several times during the battle. After the battle Meridith dies as the repeated use of her special lyrium put too much strain on her body. Hawke then becomes the Viscount because the Templars need a ruler who the people will accept and the champion is popular and support them. Varric then tells the seeker that Hawke left Kirkwall because the Templars wanted him to be a puppet ruler. As most of the mages were able to escape they encourage other circles to revolt.

[ankuu]

uanime5 wrote...

I agree with a lot of the poster about how bad the ending in Act 3 was. Here are my idea regarding how it could have been better.

1) In Act 3 if you side with the mages Orsino states that he always felt that Meredith would use the right of Annulment and he has a plan to help save most of the mages. The plan involves Orsino and several volunteer mages using blood magic to turn into a pride abomination / flesh golem to give the remaining mages time to escape through a secret tunnel. Orsino mentions that he was able to do this thanks to the research of Quentin. Hawke mentions that Quentin killed his mother but Orsino can't respond because he starts transforming. Orsino then charges into the Gallows as your ally and helps you fight against Meredith and a vast number of Templars. After you win the battle Varric tell the Seeker that you retreated with the mages while Orsino was killed by Templar archers on boats (the boats were too far away for the Harvester to attack and it couldn't swim). The escaped mages then encourage other circles to revolt.

2) In Act 3 if you side with the Templars Meridith doesn't have a magic sword that can bring statues to life because it's nonsensical, instead she eats her 'special lyrium' before the battle to become more powerful (Templars are addicted to Lyrium). Hawke can then ask Meridith about the special lyrium and learn that it was the idol Bartrand sold. If you've completed Varric's quest you can comment that it made Bartrand insane but Meridith will dismiss this by claiming Bartrand was weak. Meridith then gives a speech about how dangerous mages are when the Harvester breaks out of the Gallows and starts attacking everyone. You then have to fight the Harvester with the support of waves of Templars and Meridith, who uses her special lyrium several times during the battle. After the battle Meridith dies as the repeated use of her special lyrium put too much strain on her body. Hawke then becomes the Viscount because the Templars need a ruler who the people will accept and the champion is popular and support them. Varric then tells the seeker that Hawke left Kirkwall because the Templars wanted him to be a puppet ruler. As most of the mages were able to escape they encourage other circles to revolt.

That would have been great!

[blothulfur]

I wanted a third "rise to power" way, with Ferelden refugees, city guard and the various power brokers who owe you one (maybe even prince borings starkhaven army) you expel both templars and mages from the gallows and send them packing with Anders, Orsinos and Merediths severed heads and declare Kirkwall a true free city.

End result would be the same ie the mages scent weakness in the templar ranks and the templars get in a big huff, would have made the rise to power and Hawke a lot more meaningful.

[88mphSlayer]

what went wrong? act 3 did not conclude all of our business in kirkwall, hence why there should've been an act 4 that deals with the idol and who we sided with in act 3 in a post-civil war kirkwall

[FedericoV]

I agree with the OP too. Imho act.3 is rushed and too abrupt. It misses all the nuances of the first chapters. Moreover, it's too storydriven. There is a complete lack of choice that was excusable in act. 2, since story and charachters were so good that make up for the lack of roleplaying (the choice about Isabella is a no brainer for me). But in act. 3 the story is not good enough and it's developed too quickly.

I expected to see the result of my previous actions in act. 3 but there's no consequence to your choices. The fact that you have to fight both Orsino and Meredith it's not bad in itself. It's how is developed that felt cheap, especially in Orsino's case. And both "villains" feel forced in to the story since they had so few "screentime" in act. 1 & 2.

Well, I don't know what's happened in act. 3 but for me it screams "lack of resources and time" from any point of view. I would not believe even Gaider himself if he told me that act. 3 is what he has really planned for the game.

Modifié par FedericoV, 17 avril 2011 - 01:08 .

[Lord Gremlin]

To OP: of course I feel the same. Many people do. This game, you see, have 4/10 user score on metacritic for a reason.

Now, what went wrong... To me it feels like they completed Act 1 and 2 and then they were out of time so Act 3 was created in haste and basically half-arsed... It's so clear it's painful: they created models, animations etc., but ran out of time and money for voice recording and basically had to make same ****ty ending for everyone. This game does not deserve the idiotic ending it got. Imagine if Mafia 1 ended with a scene where MC goes mad and storms a brothel. Yep, this is the degree of "idiotic" we're facing here.
I sure hope Bioware understand the issue. I hope they're not making MP in next game.

[Rifneno]

Act I:  Great.
Act II:  Very good, save for zombie mom.
Act III:  The gaming equivalent of a nuclear power plant blowing.

This game is a grand prologue, nothing more.  People say it's a cliffhanger.  It's not a cliffhanger, it's just a setup.  This is why none of our choices matter: because everything has to end up the same way.  We didn't get any meaningful choices before Loghain screwed over Cailin either.  Because it was the prologue, just the setup for the real story.  Ditto here.  They're setting us up for the Thedas World War I story.  They weren't lying in that press release that stated Hawke was "the most important person in the DA universe," they just omitted that we wouldn't see why until DA3 DA5.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Good ideas Uanime!

blothulfur wrote...

I wanted a third "rise to power" way, with Ferelden refugees, city guard and the various power brokers who owe you one (maybe even prince borings starkhaven army) you expel both templars and mages from the gallows and send them packing with Anders, Orsinos and Merediths severed heads and declare Kirkwall a true free city.

End result would be the same ie the mages scent weakness in the templar ranks and the templars get in a big huff, would have made the rise to power and Hawke a lot more meaningful.

Indeed, Hawke could have been planning for that in those 3 years between Act 2 and 3.

There were some choices in Act 1 that I was almost sure owuld give us an option similar to that. Like having a magister as an ally, owning the bone pit, being allied with Varric's merchant guild....etc

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 avril 2011 - 02:46 .

[nikosandr75]

I know what you mean. It reminds me of Baldurs Gate 1, which started as a political conflict leading to a what it seemed as an innevitable war and it ended being the story of one man fullfiling his destiny. The difference is that in B. G. there were hints from the start of the game that this would be the story and it all blended perfectly making a cohesive naration.
It seems that all rpg games end up the easy way, that is leading you to become a mini god on earth and all the humane elements become lost in the process.
I play rpg games for ages and still wait for what would be the perfect game in my opinion. It would be based only on human characters, with human abilities (not magical and superhuman ones) and it should be trully open ended, letting you become the actual writer of the story.