I'm on my 1st playthrough, on nightmare, and I've noticed the following mage nerfs:1. Area of effect spells no longer combine to make massive death dealing combos (as far as I know...I could be wrong about this)2. Harder to keep alive. In every battle the enemey is reinforced and flanks your mages, and they're dead before you knew they were under attack3. Area of effect spells do **** damage4. Area of effect spells are hard to pul offl well because the camera won't switch in to tactical top down mode. 5. On nightmare, stun and disable effects last a split second (not a change...but if they want to balance mages they might think about changing this rule)
My opinion based on the above, as I've experienced it, is that mages are not good damage dealer in this game. In DA1 they were OP, because of the area of effect spells, which demolished everyone. In this game, the mechanics nullify all area of effect spells, because they are not usefull.Conversley, the rogues seems to be the DPS dealer, and maybe two-handed warriors. Therefor, the role of the mage in this game is to keep everyone else alive only, and I will only teach them spells which support my other party members.I think Anders is the best mage because of the ressurection, and 2 healing spells.I will not try to go through this game as a mage, because I don't think the mage class was balanced correctly. I am ONLY talking about going through on Nightmare.What are you thoguhts? Who has something to add? Has anyone gone through this game with 3 mages in their party, on nightmare? Ouch!
Add your thoughts...I may be missing something too!
Mages in Nightmare, not DPS
Débuté par
pf4alex
, mars 14 2011 09:43
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#2
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 09:50
Tekman9
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"I may be missing something too!"
paragraphs!
paragraphs!
#3
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 09:50
nicodeemus327
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You are missing something. Mainly cross class combos. Mages are probably the best at creating combo opportunities and exploiting them. I always run with two.
Modifié par nicodeemus327, 14 mars 2011 - 10:00 .
#4
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 09:51
x-president
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Mage strength just starts off slower imo. A group of mages can do serious dmg and control many if setup right.
Also you have to keep them far back during a fight. My aoe spells can take out groups of archers on it's own so I wouldn't say they are weak.and if they don't, it buys time so my melee guys can come in and finish them off.
Also you have to keep them far back during a fight. My aoe spells can take out groups of archers on it's own so I wouldn't say they are weak.and if they don't, it buys time so my melee guys can come in and finish them off.
#5
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:26
pf4alex
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ARe you guys playing nightmare? This changes everything
#6
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:28
x-president
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pf4alex wrote...
ARe you guys playing nightmare? This changes everything
I'm on hard atm, but is there really a difference besides no FF?
#7
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:28
Cyocide
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Mages are still insane. Once I accidentally backflipped into Bethany's firestorm. I did not make it out. *Boom* Stagger *Boom* Stagger *Boom* RIP *Reload* =P
Cone of Cold is still amazing as ever. Also, Merrill using Chain Lightning after Aveline uses a Shield Bash? Sexy as sin. But yeah they've been toned down from Origins a bit.
Edits for typos
Cone of Cold is still amazing as ever. Also, Merrill using Chain Lightning after Aveline uses a Shield Bash? Sexy as sin. But yeah they've been toned down from Origins a bit.
Edits for typos
Modifié par Cyocide, 14 mars 2011 - 10:29 .
#8
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:35
JaykoVetinari
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I don't think it's that mages are nerfed so much as the change to combat has made them a tad more fragile. There is a definite tendency for them to get trounced when either a wave of archers hops in and all looks at your mage, a caster reinforcement nuking your entire party, or an assassin one-shots them with a backstab. It was more manageable when there weren't new waves of enemies coming in.
It's very easy at the start of a fight to petrify or crushing prison or freeze one or two, but when four archers jump in halfway accross the map and kill you before you can move, it's very obnoxious.
Try using Merrill as a bloodmage only and putting points into Con instead of Willpower. She ends up with a ton of HP and is quite durable in addition to never running out of mana.
It's very easy at the start of a fight to petrify or crushing prison or freeze one or two, but when four archers jump in halfway accross the map and kill you before you can move, it's very obnoxious.
Try using Merrill as a bloodmage only and putting points into Con instead of Willpower. She ends up with a ton of HP and is quite durable in addition to never running out of mana.
#9
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:35
JaykoVetinari
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I don't think it's that mages are nerfed so much as the change to combat has made them a tad more fragile. There is a definite tendency for them to get trounced when either a wave of archers hops in and all looks at your mage, a caster reinforcement nuking your entire party, or an assassin one-shots them with a backstab. It was more manageable when there weren't new waves of enemies coming in.
It's very easy at the start of a fight to petrify or crushing prison or freeze one or two, but when four archers jump in halfway accross the map and kill you before you can move, it's very obnoxious.
Try using Merrill as a bloodmage only and putting points into Con instead of Willpower. She ends up with a ton of HP and is quite durable in addition to never running out of mana.
It's very easy at the start of a fight to petrify or crushing prison or freeze one or two, but when four archers jump in halfway accross the map and kill you before you can move, it's very obnoxious.
Try using Merrill as a bloodmage only and putting points into Con instead of Willpower. She ends up with a ton of HP and is quite durable in addition to never running out of mana.
#10
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:39
x-president
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You can also use cover to prevent the archers from getting you.
#11
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:55
nicodeemus327
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pf4alex wrote...
ARe you guys playing nightmare? This changes everything
Yep, playing nightmare. Crusing through. Cross class combos. Seriously.
#12
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:57
Myrmedus
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It's also survivability. Later on in the game, Mage survivability can actually be insane but obviously they start off frail and weak.
Modifié par Myrmedus, 14 mars 2011 - 10:57 .
#13
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 10:59
pf4alex
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I agree, cross-class combos are amazing. Also, the reinforcement thing is, in my opinion, the downfall of mages in this game. Still, I like ur guys ideas!
#14
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 12:16
Grumpy Old Wizard
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Dragon Age 2 is melee centric. Mages on NM are pretty underpowered. Many of the casting animations are far too long for the speed the enemies move at in DA2, the spells are mostly underpowered, and the cooldowns are too long. The specializations are unimpressive.
It is kind of hard to tell mages to just stay back from the fray with the initial spawn all around you and then reinforcement waves appearing on top of you or coming behind you in the path you just cleared. Unshakable is a must if you don't want to be slapped all around the battlefield and staggered with every arrow or melee hit.
It is kind of hard to tell mages to just stay back from the fray with the initial spawn all around you and then reinforcement waves appearing on top of you or coming behind you in the path you just cleared. Unshakable is a must if you don't want to be slapped all around the battlefield and staggered with every arrow or melee hit.
#15
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 12:29
DM Veil
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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Dragon Age 2 is melee centric. Mages on NM are pretty underpowered. Many of the casting animations are far too long for the speed the enemies move at in DA2, the spells are mostly underpowered, and the cooldowns are too long. The specializations are unimpressive.
It is kind of hard to tell mages to just stay back from the fray with the initial spawn all around you and then reinforcement waves appearing on top of you or coming behind you in the path you just cleared. Unshakable is a must if you don't want to be slapped all around the battlefield and staggered with every arrow or melee hit.
I would hardly say it's melee centric, especially on Nightmare. I know 2handed warriors will kill other melee with their aoe's just as easily as any mage aoe, and a lot of fights seem ideal to have one melee and the rest ranged.
#16
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 02:15
JaykoVetinari
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I would agree...to call this game melee centric doesn't line up with my experience in gameplay at all. For most of the boss fights as my rogue I had to switch to archery and simply use passives and auto attack during most of the encounter due to the AE or backwards attacking nature of most of the bosses. It was simply not surviveable to be in melee range of the High Dragon or the Rock Wraith on my rogue. I may have been able to manage it on the high dragon, however the fight was simple enough to do at range.
I haven't played reaver class at all, but I was totally dependent on my two mages for both DPS and encounter management. DPS in that I had use brittle for a cross class combo with Assassinate, but still. Cone of cold and petrify were the main reasons that I survived many a fight.
I haven't played reaver class at all, but I was totally dependent on my two mages for both DPS and encounter management. DPS in that I had use brittle for a cross class combo with Assassinate, but still. Cone of cold and petrify were the main reasons that I survived many a fight.
#17
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 03:14
DrekorSilverfang
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Upgraded Whirlwind + Chain Lighting = 
#18
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 05:03
LordAsael
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If you're running with mages in your party you will want to find favourable ground for engaging the enemy. Running into the open and meeting the enemy on their ground is often suicide for your mage -- and for your entire party if you're running with multiple mages. That was a difficult lesson for me to learn at first. Mages in DA2 fit the "glass-cannon" archetype throughout the game -- and most especially in the very earliest levels. It may well be worth taking a defensive sustainable if you're having trouble managing the battle-field to give your mage a little more durability at the cost of some offensive power.
Combos: Mages can't build their own combos as they could in DA:O. It was incredibly frustrating to me when I jumped straight into the game without reading any information from the game guide or the official strategy guide. The system isn't quite as incredible as the DA:O combo system (farewell SotC OPness) but I find that I like it a great deal more as it requires thought be put into the group with which you adventure and how you shall build each one of them. I'd suggest that you read about these combos and create tactics to exploit these possibilities unless you intend to play with an incredible amount of micro-management (which is fine if that is your preference.)
I suppose that three mages is possible but I'd think it to be rather ineffective. I love me a two-handed warrior that will serve as a tank and build him to score a large number of staggered opponents which the mages might be able to make pop in a gory mess. I'm also trying to build a rogue that might stay at mid-range and disorient some targets to the advantage of the mages and the warrior. Finally, I like to ensure that at least one of my mages can make brittle a few targets and let the rogue and the warrior do their thing there. Exploitation of the full range of cross-class combos can begin to make your party feel truly epic as they mature. A well balanced party can also leave room for some less spectacular debuffs that will assist against targets that prove somewhat more durable. In summation -- the game is balance centric and does not have favour any particular line in any way (though in the earliest portions I have found that two rogues with decent weapons can make some encounters much easier but that doesn't seem to last through the entirety of Act I.
Another route (which I haven't given much attention at this point) is devoting one character to crowd control and skipping over some combo opportunities to keep some groups of enemies out of the fight until you are ready to focus them down with the rest of your party. Something tells me that this might be a more effective strategy than simply hoping to DPS the hell out of encounters -- especially when one considers that there are times when you have multiple higher level mobs in the encounter that won't be easily burned without focusing attention to them. Crowd control can also be that "OH NOES!" option when reinforcements flank around atop your weakling mages and allow you to redirect your attention to more pressing matters.
It takes some practice if you're used to playing with an OP DA:O build or party combination. I like that combat takes some planning and one can't simply drop massive AOE combos or charge in with an indestructible character build and own the day. I truly appreciate that DA2 is a bit more difficult and Hard is truly hard sometimes and Nightmare can be truly nightmarish.
Combos: Mages can't build their own combos as they could in DA:O. It was incredibly frustrating to me when I jumped straight into the game without reading any information from the game guide or the official strategy guide. The system isn't quite as incredible as the DA:O combo system (farewell SotC OPness) but I find that I like it a great deal more as it requires thought be put into the group with which you adventure and how you shall build each one of them. I'd suggest that you read about these combos and create tactics to exploit these possibilities unless you intend to play with an incredible amount of micro-management (which is fine if that is your preference.)
I suppose that three mages is possible but I'd think it to be rather ineffective. I love me a two-handed warrior that will serve as a tank and build him to score a large number of staggered opponents which the mages might be able to make pop in a gory mess. I'm also trying to build a rogue that might stay at mid-range and disorient some targets to the advantage of the mages and the warrior. Finally, I like to ensure that at least one of my mages can make brittle a few targets and let the rogue and the warrior do their thing there. Exploitation of the full range of cross-class combos can begin to make your party feel truly epic as they mature. A well balanced party can also leave room for some less spectacular debuffs that will assist against targets that prove somewhat more durable. In summation -- the game is balance centric and does not have favour any particular line in any way (though in the earliest portions I have found that two rogues with decent weapons can make some encounters much easier but that doesn't seem to last through the entirety of Act I.
Another route (which I haven't given much attention at this point) is devoting one character to crowd control and skipping over some combo opportunities to keep some groups of enemies out of the fight until you are ready to focus them down with the rest of your party. Something tells me that this might be a more effective strategy than simply hoping to DPS the hell out of encounters -- especially when one considers that there are times when you have multiple higher level mobs in the encounter that won't be easily burned without focusing attention to them. Crowd control can also be that "OH NOES!" option when reinforcements flank around atop your weakling mages and allow you to redirect your attention to more pressing matters.
It takes some practice if you're used to playing with an OP DA:O build or party combination. I like that combat takes some planning and one can't simply drop massive AOE combos or charge in with an indestructible character build and own the day. I truly appreciate that DA2 is a bit more difficult and Hard is truly hard sometimes and Nightmare can be truly nightmarish.
