141 réponses à ce sujet

[Bonus Pretzel]

I have always enjoyed the characters Bioware creates, finding them far more deep and intriguing than the usual predictable one dimensional characters found in other games (Mordin from Mass Effect 2 being my favorite for his unique outlook on justifying the genophage). I was still surprised to find Anders confessing that his friend which you try to save after meeting him was also his lover. I was surprised even more when I found there were possible romance options with him (my character being male). I write this because a while ago Gameinformer had an article about diversity in video game characters, and while modern gaming doesn't have as much trouble with racial diversity, until now I had yet to see a game that featured homosexuality in a mature sense. I emphasize the word "mature" to pre-emptively respond to anyone who may argue Rockstar already dealt with homosexuality in Grand Theft Auto IV - The Ballad of Gay Tony. Yes, one of the primary characters was gay, but he was more of a caricature of the overdone "flaming" stereotype. What I mean to say is that Gay Tony will be remembered by people as "the gay club owner in Grand Theft Auto", whereas Anders is the former grey warden apostate mage who opposes the sanctioned oppression of his fellow mages, and happens to have had a homosexual relationship. His sexual orientation is not what defines him, its merely a part of his character, not the basis of it. I have the utmost admiration to Bioware for understanding the importance of subtelty and finally crafting a respectable non-stereotypical character who engages in an alternate lifestyle.

[LuxLucious]

couldnt agree more!.. im sure they earned a lot of respect from a lot of people

[Soundsystem]

Anders is only gay if you flirt with him as a male character. If you flirt with him as a female character the he's straight. So technically speaking I suppose he's bisexual.. but in game his orientation locks depending on your sex.

Still agree with your comments on the mature way in which it's handled. I like that Isabella is bisexual and open about it. It's nice to see my sexuality legitimated in that way and not treated as a joke. (As it so often is in the media).

Bioware always seems to be one of the most open and respectful companies out there. It earns them a lot of my love.

[mesmerizedish]

Soundsystem wrote...

Anders is only gay if you flirt with him as a male character. If you flirt with him as a female character the he's straight. So technically speaking I suppose he's bisexual.. but in game his orientation locks depending on your sex.

That's actually not true... 1. that wouldn't make him bisexual, and 2. he's in to men and women regardless of the PC's gender. That makes him bisexual

Fenris and Merrill don't talk about any sexual history. So, I can say that my Merrill is a lesbian. Someone else can say that his Merrill is straight. Anders and Isabela are actually bisexual.

[AlphaMaeko]

This thread is pretty, and witty.

Also, Anders isn't exactly bi. His sexuality changes to suite the player's gender.

[Soundsystem]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Soundsystem wrote...

Anders is only gay if you flirt with him as a male character. If you flirt with him as a female character the he's straight. So technically speaking I suppose he's bisexual.. but in game his orientation locks depending on your sex.

That's actually not true... 1. that wouldn't make him bisexual, and 2. he's in to men and women regardless of the PC's gender. That makes him bisexual

Fenris and Merrill don't talk about any sexual history. So, I can say that my Merrill is a lesbian. Someone else can say that his Merrill is straight. Anders and Isabela are actually bisexual.

I know what bisexual means.I was referencing the fact that you can romance him with either gender (which would be bisexual) even though he is completely homosexual or heterosexual depending on the Champions gender. So within an individual game he is either written as being completely straight or completely gay, but this changes based on the gender. Make sense?

Isabella is the only character who openly identifies as bisexual beyond the technically being able to romance with either gender. She is the only one for whom bisexuality is actually a part of her story and character in canon.

[Sabariel]

Soundsystem wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Soundsystem wrote...

Anders is only gay if you flirt with him as a male character. If you flirt with him as a female character the he's straight. So technically speaking I suppose he's bisexual.. but in game his orientation locks depending on your sex.

That's actually not true... 1. that wouldn't make him bisexual, and 2. he's in to men and women regardless of the PC's gender. That makes him bisexual

Fenris and Merrill don't talk about any sexual history. So, I can say that my Merrill is a lesbian. Someone else can say that his Merrill is straight. Anders and Isabela are actually bisexual.

I know what bisexual means.I was referencing the fact that you can romance him with either gender (which would be bisexual) even though he is completely homosexual or heterosexual depending on the Champions gender. So within an individual game he is either written as being completely straight or completely gay, but this changes based on the gender. Make sense?

Isabella is the only character who openly identifies as bisexual beyond the technically being able to romance with either gender. She is the only one for whom bisexuality is actually a part of her story and character in canon.

...Karl used to be Anders' lover no matter what gender Hawke is. Dude is bisexual.

[Soundsystem]

Sabariel wrote...

Soundsystem wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Soundsystem wrote...

Anders is only gay if you flirt with him as a male character. If you flirt with him as a female character the he's straight. So technically speaking I suppose he's bisexual.. but in game his orientation locks depending on your sex.

That's actually not true... 1. that wouldn't make him bisexual, and 2. he's in to men and women regardless of the PC's gender. That makes him bisexual

Fenris and Merrill don't talk about any sexual history. So, I can say that my Merrill is a lesbian. Someone else can say that his Merrill is straight. Anders and Isabela are actually bisexual.

I know what bisexual means.I was referencing the fact that you can romance him with either gender (which would be bisexual) even though he is completely homosexual or heterosexual depending on the Champions gender. So within an individual game he is either written as being completely straight or completely gay, but this changes based on the gender. Make sense?

Isabella is the only character who openly identifies as bisexual beyond the technically being able to romance with either gender. She is the only one for whom bisexuality is actually a part of her story and character in canon.

...Karl used to be Anders' lover no matter what gender Hawke is. Dude is bisexual.

Sorry. I was thinking wrong: He's bi if you are a male and straight if you are female.

"Anders is a romance option for both genders with "subjective sexuality". If Hawke is male, he is bisexual and will claim that Karl was his "first"[6]. For a female Hawke, he is straight and the dialogue changes to reflect that. [7] Hawke can announce interest in Anders after his personal quest, much to his surprise. Anders will say he should "check a looking glass more often" [8]. "

So says the Dragon Age wiki. Must have just been the note about subjective sexuality that stuck in my brain. 

He definately never mentions Karl as his firts if you are Lady!Hawke.

Modifié par Soundsystem, 15 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[formulanerd]

mature, like rated M for mature? all the men are gay and throw themselves at you.

[Nirro1989]

I completely agree with OP.

[Shepard Lives]

Very well said, OP.

On the subject of companion sexuality, my personal take is that Anders and Isabela are canonically bisexual, and Fenris and Merrill are Hawkesexual. They're basically all about emotions. Though it would be interesting to know what way Fenris swung before he got lyrium'd into oblivion.

[RosaAquafire]

Do we have confirmation that Karl was ONLY Anders's lover if you're male? Isn't it possible he just doesn't mention it to a female Hawke?

[Shazzie]

Anders mentions nothing about a relationship (beyond friendship) with Karl if you're a female. FemHawke can 'guess' that Karl was 'more than just a friend' to Anders. But it's only a guess.

[EDIT:] I like how the above poster used the word 'Hawkesexual'. We all know Isabela is bi, both from DA:O and her own actions in DA2. If you played Awakenings then you know Anders likes the ladies. However, Anders can also like the laddies in DA2... if you're male. If you're female, it doesn't come up. Merrill and Fenris mention no past lovers, so we have nothing to go on with regards to their sexuality.

I personally think this was a fantastic way to handle the relationships.

Modifié par Shazzie, 15 mars 2011 - 06:06 .

[leggywillow]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Do we have confirmation that Karl was ONLY Anders's lover if you're male? Isn't it possible he just doesn't mention it to a female Hawke?

No, I don't think there's any confirmation.  I guess it's open to however you're most comfortable role-playing it.  I like the idea of "subjective sexuality", but I also really like what Anders says about his relationship with Karl.  Here's the video where Anders talk to Man Hawke about Karl.  I'm actually really jealous; he gets all Justice-y at one point.  I don't think Lady Hawke can get that in that conversation.

In my head-canon, he's still bisexual in Lady Hawke's world just because I like the idea of my cute little straight Lady Hawke feeling a bit intimidated by it.

Hawke: So you've been with other men?
Anders: A few, yeah.  Does that bother you?
Hawke: ::blusters:: No way.  I've totally been with other women.
Anders: ::bemused:: Have you?
Hawke: ::mutters::  I kissed a girl on a dare once.

[Kemmer]

leggywillow wrote...
In my head-canon, he's still bisexual in Lady Hawke's world just because I like the idea of my cute little straight Lady Hawke feeling a bit intimidated by it.

Hawke: So you've been with other men?
Anders: A few, yeah.  Does that bother you?
Hawke: ::blusters:: No way.  I've totally been with other women.
Anders: ::bemused:: Have you?
Hawke: ::mutters::  I kissed a girl on a dare once.

Heh, cute .  And yes, I totally agree with the OP.  I like how this is a non-issue in the overall story, while still referencing it from time to time in a realistic way.  On a related note, I like that I can play my Hawke as a bi guy who is falling for the aggravating as hell Fenris, while still being a friend with benefits with Isabela.  This game is so much win!

[Gerrium]

I personally didnt like the idea. In DA:O as a male you have Zevran and for me that was enough and I was ok with it , but in this game 2 dudes could be homosexual if you chose to pursue that....thats too much

You guys have to remember that there are still many...many people in the world who see homosexuality as wrong wether is religious or secular motivation. Teenagers do play these games,(notice im not saying kids LOL) at this early stage in their lives I'm pretty sure they have seen homosexuality in the, street,school,tv... but at videogames...come on. Even the courtesans at the blooming rose:


One guy
A tranny Elf
One woman

So thats 2 guys and one woman, it is hilarious but there you have it.

Returning to the companion, the player exprience So I have 3 homosexuals and one Bi, one is taken, the other is brother/ sister and theres the dwarf. So thats leaves you with no real heterosexuals. I understand that homosexuality is something has always happend, just that is advertised more these days, but that doesnt mean you have to take every facet of entertainment and insert homosexuality, most people are not going to like it. Homosexuality is still a minority.

It is just an aspect that I found.. not cool. Gay tony was a side story,of greater story of the GTA Series. They made it its own game,I didnt play it. I dont like side stories. I personally would'tn want to play as a homosexual hero wether is male or female. I dont discriminate but I dont support it.

[Raanz]

Normally, I am very open about my thoughts on this. Although I am a heterosexual male, and that's how I play Hawke, I don't care if they include the ability for folks to play to their preference.
For some reason though, DA2 seems to have the male companions "push" a little harder towards that. Maybe I am being overly sensitive about it, or maybe I see it in the slightest of hints, I don't know. It just appeared to me that where a lot more opportunities for me to choose a romance option(heart) with Anders, and Fenris then I had with Isabela, or a lot more then what was presented to me with Merrill. Even after taking the neutral or friendship route.
I could be wrong, but that's the way I saw it.

[Puzzlewell]

I personally am quite pleased in how BioWare handled it. The fact that I actually get to make a choice between Isabela and Merrill for my LadyHawke makes me very happy (and conflicted considering I wasn't sure if the Isabela romance was going to continue until I got to the end of chapter 2...) I'd like to think the DA2 team paid attention to everyone being grumpy about ME2's straight only romances (til LotSB) and gave us more options. To that I am thankful.

[erilben]

leggywillow wrote...


I'm actually really jealous; he gets all Justice-y at one point.  I don't think Lady Hawke can get that in that conversation.

You can get him to get Justice-y with a female by telling him it was a mitake to let Justice possess him.

Modifié par erilben, 15 mars 2011 - 07:36 .

[Shepard Lives]

Gerrium wrote...

I personally didnt like the idea. In DA:O as a male you have Zevran and for me that was enough and I was ok with it , but in this game 2 dudes could be homosexual if you chose to pursue that....thats too much

You guys have to remember that there are still many...many people in the world who see homosexuality as wrong wether is religious or secular motivation. Teenagers do play these games,(notice im not saying kids LOL) at this early stage in their lives I'm pretty sure they have seen homosexuality in the, street,school,tv... but at videogames...come on. Even the courtesans at the blooming rose:


One guy
A tranny Elf
One woman

So thats 2 guys and one woman, it is hilarious but there you have it.

Returning to the companion, the player exprience So I have 3 homosexuals and one Bi, one is taken, the other is brother/ sister and theres the dwarf. So thats leaves you with no real heterosexuals. I understand that homosexuality is something has always happend, just that is advertised more these days, but that doesnt mean you have to take every facet of entertainment and insert homosexuality, most people are not going to like it. Homosexuality is still a minority.

It is just an aspect that I found.. not cool. Gay tony was a side story,of greater story of the GTA Series. They made it its own game,I didnt play it. I dont like side stories. I personally would'tn want to play as a homosexual hero wether is male or female. I dont discriminate but I dont support it.

No.

Why is there such a thing as "too much homosexuality" and nothing like "too much heterosexuality"? Because most people dislike homosexuals (sadly true)? Does that mean homosexuals should have less rights, simply because they are a minority? And you say you're not discriminating.
Should game developers say "Sorry gay people, we wanted to give you content, but our gay-o-meter is dangerously close to the hetero-offending zone"?

I see so many heterosexuals here who are like spoiled children. You've been the absolute center of attention in fiction for, like, two thousand years. Now, us bisexuals and homosexuals are starting to get a little recognition, and your reaction is "What the hell? You don't deserve to get as much attention as I do. Go back to your closed communities."

Try to let go of the condtioning you have no doubt been subjected to by today's mass media. There is nothing inherently wrong or embarrassing with showing homosexuality. It does not mean gay people are taking over and sneering at you as they begin to rule over all media.

We are human beings, just like you are.


This will not stand. If you call yourself a person who does not discriminate, then you should "support homosexuality", whatever that means. Saying that there should be less gay people because it offends you is taking away the freedom of your fellow man.

[erilben]

Shazzie wrote...

Merrill and Fenris mention no past lovers, so we have nothing to go on with regards to their sexuality.

There is banter between Isabela and Fenris about them talking about getting together for sex.

[Jangocat]

Meh, much ado about nothing IMO. The romances are very shallow and uninteresting compared to the deep conversations written in other series like ME and KOTOR.

[Shepard Lives]

Jangocat wrote...

Meh, much ado about nothing IMO. The romances are very shallow and uninteresting compared to the deep conversations written in other series like ME and KOTOR.

You really think so? Personally, I believe both DAO games handled romances in a much more involving way (and generally better) than either KOTOR or ME. Though KOTOR does have the amazing Light Side scene with Bastila aboard the Star Forge.
What is it that makes you think that? I'm curious.

[Aithieel]

I really like how BioWare did it. Finally a game that suits my taste fully! Wanted to romance Anders since Awakening and now I also can as male Hawke .

[Isaidlunch]

After deep contemplation I decided to remove my comment.

Modifié par Kazanth, 16 mars 2011 - 05:31 .