141 réponses à ce sujet

[pingupower]

Maybe it's only me but I feel really inconfortable with Anders hitting on me 2 day after we met.

[LordJeyl]

I'm a straight male, but I play my Bioware characters as females who pursue the female love interests. What Bioware did for Dragon Age II is something I don't think they should shy away from. It's always been evidenced in their previous games that they had planned on letting the LI characters be into your PC regardless of gender, but for some reason or another, didn't go all the way. I can actually imagine seeing Dragon Age Wiki with articles like "Originally, Anders was to be a love interest for the male Hawke as well as the female Hawke" or "Unused dialogue files in Dragon Age II shows that Merrill was also going to be a love interest to female Hawke". I'm glad those articles aren't up there.

Bioware has my support on this.

[LordJeyl]

pingupower wrote...

Maybe it's only me but I feel really uncomfortable with Anders hitting on me 2 day after we met.

Yeah, and I bet your Hawke has an option that perfectly reflects your thoughts. Give him the burn! Heck, he hits on my female Hawke to! My lady loves will never hear the end of it if I returned his feelings.

[fathomless33]

You say you think he should not discriminate against homosexuality, however in game there are more homosexual offerings than there are hetero.

I will not go into my own personal thoughts about homosexuality because they have no place here. I just think that they should have had more women in the game. You basically only have two choices as a heterosexual male, Issy, which is great by the way, a very cool character, and then there is the not so smart blood mage that is so obsessed with something she is willing to get others killed, put her supposed loved ones in danger, by consorting with demons to obtain it.

Basically since i dont like stupid people that do not think of how their actions effect others, and i am a heterosexual male i have only one choice. (dont get me wrong, she is a great choice if you play her through and experience all the dialogue.

I know in my head that the reason there is homosexuality all over the place is the over abundance of male NPCs, it still feels like you are beaten over the head with it, so to speak. Wanna screw this guy, how about this guy, well you can have this guy, or the one woman.

I would be interested to get this take from a homosexual woman playing the game, did you feel like you did not have enough choices to suit you?

[graciegrace]

fathomless33 wrote...

You say you think he should not discriminate against homosexuality, however in game there are more homosexual offerings than there are hetero.

I will not go into my own personal thoughts about homosexuality because they have no place here. I just think that they should have had more women in the game. You basically only have two choices as a heterosexual male, Issy, which is great by the way, a very cool character, and then there is the not so smart blood mage that is so obsessed with something she is willing to get others killed, put her supposed loved ones in danger, by consorting with demons to obtain it.

Basically since i dont like stupid people that do not think of how their actions effect others, and i am a heterosexual male i have only one choice. (dont get me wrong, she is a great choice if you play her through and experience all the dialogue.

I know in my head that the reason there is homosexuality all over the place is the over abundance of male NPCs, it still feels like you are beaten over the head with it, so to speak. Wanna screw this guy, how about this guy, well you can have this guy, or the one woman.

I would be interested to get this take from a homosexual woman playing the game, did you feel like you did not have enough choices to suit you?

techincally, it's the fact that you don't like Merrill, not Bioware that is causing you to only have one choice.

[Luridel]

Very, very proud of and happy with Bioware for making all four of the romances shipped with the base game available to Hawkes of either gender. It doesn't seem forced or out of character for any of the four that were picked, which is incredibly nice.

[mellifera]

Straight Male: Isabela and Merrill
Straight Female: Anders and Fenris
Gay Male: Anders and Fenris
Gay Female: Isabela and Merrill

Bisexual Male or Female: Anders, Fenris, Isabela and Merrill

Not sure I am seeing where the injustice is

I romanced both guys with male Hawkes. It feels just as natural as heterosexual romances. They acknowledge that Hawke is a male and it isn't an issue.

Modifié par yukidama, 15 mars 2011 - 11:05 .

[fathomless33]

Fair enough. Seems its pretty even. You did leave out Sebastion though, but he only swings one way. It is safe to say that i just really dont like the Merril character. Just soo stupid and irresponsible to her people, life in general, and to her supposed love interest. Feels like i only had one choice. However that one choice is pretty awesome. If Merril had a story arc where she would put away her obsession and be ok, then it would be much cooler.

She is cute in her own way, just dont like that she has a demon for an ex boyfriend that keeps calling and she always answers.....

[mellifera]

Hah, Sebastian. He is easily forgettable for me. So I guess straight (or bi) female characters get one more option, but I'd hardly call it a great one *is bad*

[Tamyn]

erilben wrote...

Shazzie wrote...

Merrill and Fenris mention no past lovers, so we have nothing to go on with regards to their sexuality.

There is banter between Isabela and Fenris about them talking about getting together for sex.

The closest I've seen/heard to that is Isabela suggesting it and then turning Fenris down when he plays along. Nothing actually happens.

[mellifera]

Tamyn wrote...

erilben wrote...

Shazzie wrote...

Merrill and Fenris mention no past lovers, so we have nothing to go on with regards to their sexuality.

There is banter between Isabela and Fenris about them talking about getting together for sex.

The closest I've seen/heard to that is Isabela suggesting it and then turning Fenris down when he plays along. Nothing actually happens.

Hmm, you might have missed this, then.

Modifié par yukidama, 15 mars 2011 - 11:23 .

[Tamyn]

yukidama wrote...

Hmm, you might have missed this, then.

Wow. I guess that only comes up if you aren't romancing either one of them. Damn Isabela's lucky. Depending on the universe she can have Fenris, Zevran, Alistair, Hawke, and the Warden. Lucky.

Modifié par Tamyn, 15 mars 2011 - 11:39 .

[Shazzie]

Hah! I never got that, either, on two play-throughs! Though, one of them I was romancing Fenris, so it wouldn't be likely to come up.

So I guess Fenris CAN display a preference, but it's not likely to come up prior to choosing to be in a romance with him, is it? That was mostly what I was thinking of, with regards to gender preference for romance.

[MsKehoe]

Oh, the rampant complaining about ~too much homosexuality in the game is hilarious considering how much heterosexuality is shoved in my face on a daily basis.

And it's not uneven. You have four love interests (two guys, two girls). All are bisexual (yes, even Anders. He explains quite bluntly that he falls for a person rather than their body. This doesn't mean your relationship with him is any less real if you play a female Hawke).

You even have the option to playfully flirt with Varric and Aveline. So, stop complaining and let me have my equality for Christ's sake.

[Trophonius]

I'm not sure I understand the logic in wanting to remove all homosexual romances. What's so wrong about that? It doesn't force you to pursue romances with characters of the same sex unless you initiate it. Besides, Fenris doesn't even hit on you, just Anders. Even then, I'm sure you can risk 10-15 rivalry points with him when you have several opportunities to make up for it later. Hell, just having Anders mention a loving relationship with a guy was a big improvement. As a gay man, I've had to play a straight character more times than I can count so I deeply respect Bioware for caring about us at all. Not many games are so open.

Modifié par Trophonius, 16 mars 2011 - 04:39 .

[tanerb123]

pingupower wrote...

Maybe it's only me but I feel really inconfortable with Anders hitting on me 2 day after we met.

same here.

[wikkedjoker]

I realize I will get no love for my post, however, I don't believe this to be true. In past games maybe in DA:2 not so much.

Everyone is Bi? That seems mature? No, it seems more like pandering to a fan-base of fan girls who wanted to see the Gray Warden and Alistair get it on, so they could giggle and squeal.
I loved Zevran he was an utter bad ass. And Leliana was absolutely adorable. There sexuality was, not what defined them, but just apart of who they are.

In Dragon Age 2 it seemed like sexuality was more of a gimmick than an additional depth to the character.

And with Anders it seemed almost like a character assassination. (Well Dragon Age 2 seemed like a character assassination for Anders.)

In DA:Awakening Anders came off as very straight, from drooling over the statue of Andraste, to hitting on Vallanna to his one goal in life "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools."

I have NO problem with homosexual characters, or Bi or what not, I have a problem when sexuality is pointless and characters seem changed to appease a fan-base. Everyone being Bi just seems like a lazy out for Bioware so they didn't have to deal with fans complaining about it, and rather immature if you ask me.

[Xandiva]

About the Anders thing: I really didn't feel like he threw himself at me. My first playthrough was aimed at making him my primary LI for my male hawke. Initially, whenever I chose the "flirty" option, he would give me a smirk at best, and appear to ignore my comment completely, while soapboxing for mages:

"I liked a boy, u mad?"
"No, actually I..."
"I HATE TEMPLARS!! ARGH"

Suddenly sometime later, I'm faced with 2 flirty options, and a smash-his-heart-to-oblivion option. A little surprising. (I'm curious to see if those not choosing flirty options prior to this were forced to make a similar decision, because if so, I could understand the confusion from a very forward Anders.) I obviously chose to continue the romance, and I'm immediately transported to a Harlequin Novel saying things like: "Don't ever leave". Whoa. It was interesting, but it didn't seem like a naturally smooth, romantic progression. It was kinda cute, though. But then there was the Chantry thing. Sigh... really, Anders?

Next playthrough - no Anders. To me, Fenris came off as... well, mean and stubborn. Merill was strange, though I didn't want my character to support that whole demonic blood mage stuff she was keen on. Isabella would have been the second choice, though I had some difficulty getting her friendship up. With how easy it is to be sympathetic to mages, and how... "zealous" our friend Anders is, I do agree that it seems a lot easier to pursue a homosexual relationship with a male hawke, though that could just be due to my playstyle (or inability to play to Isabella's fickle tastes).

I can somewhat sympathize with those upset that all LIs are now bisexual, as it is somewhat an unrealistic scenario. With the limited amount of characters, though, this is probably the method that would give players the greatest realm of choice (ie. a player looking for a m/m relationship wouldn't be limited solely to a promiscuous - though handsome - antivan elf). I think the core idea that some are forgetting, though, is that relationships are nearly always instigated by a player's own flirtatious reponses.

It sounds more like the majority of those complaining are more upset by the inclusion and acceptance of homosexuality/bisexuality in the game, rather than being forced (clockwork-orange style here) to see acts of depravity. "It's yucky, I don't like :(" - then put on your good ol' IMAGINATON CAP and be content that just for you, Isabella wouldn't dream of touching another woman. And perhaps pretend that the "heart" option doesn't exist when Anders tells you he wants to run away with your male hawke. Though, I can't imagine what kind of social mechanics you'd operate under in the real world to require this level of hand-holding...

I think the real injustice (see what I did there) is that there is no offering of a male homosexual relationship that doesn't include a murderous psychopathic partner.

Modifié par Xandiva, 16 mars 2011 - 05:49 .

[MsKehoe]

Please don't generalize. I'm a queer dude who was happy to see homosexual relationships being explored in this game. It's not all just "fangirls".

And I don't think their sexualities ultimately defines them. You can ask Fenris if the guy thing troubles him and he says "nah, it's not that." You can ask Anders about his relationship with a guy and he explains point blank that he loves the person, not the body. Then we continue on with the normal relationship stuff, same as with a female Hawke.

And I'm happy if this is a result of Bioware listening to its fans. There are queer gamers out there who have to constantly play straight characters through first-person and don't have many other options.

As for Anders's characterization in Awakening--a lot of it was changed when Justice took over, so he became more somber and serious (and not so much on the hitting on everything). Also, in Awakening, there was still subtext. Nathaniel asks Anders if he always wears mage robes and Anders replies saucily ~not when I'm naked I don't. The hetero was definitely more amped up, but I take that as more heterosexism in the industry (it's the norm~ after all) and I'm glad the direction Bioware is taking now with queer characters in video games. So, yeah, I don't mind that Anders likes dudes too. It's not like we had an in-depth analysis on his sexuality and past flings in Awakening.

[sgreco1970]

1,000,000% agree with the OP. It was deeply gratifying to see the non-stereotypical gay relationship possibilities. Kudos to BW for joining us in the 21st century.

[Grunk]

Disagree strenuously on what the OP said about racial diversity in gaming, but that's not this thread.

I appreciate the approach to sexuality in this game, as well.

[wikkedjoker]

MsKehoe wrote...

Please don't generalize. I'm a queer dude who was happy to see homosexual relationships being explored in this game. It's not all just "fangirls".

And I don't think their sexualities ultimately defines them. You can ask Fenris if the guy thing troubles him and he says "nah, it's not that." You can ask Anders about his relationship with a guy and he explains point blank that he loves the person, not the body. Then we continue on with the normal relationship stuff, same as with a female Hawke.

And I'm happy if this is a result of Bioware listening to its fans. There are queer gamers out there who have to constantly play straight characters through first-person and don't have many other options.

As for Anders's characterization in Awakening--a lot of it was changed when Justice took over, so he became more somber and serious (and not so much on the hitting on everything). Also, in Awakening, there was still subtext. Nathaniel asks Anders if he always wears mage robes and Anders replies saucily ~not when I'm naked I don't. The hetero was definitely more amped up, but I take that as more heterosexism in the industry (it's the norm~ after all) and I'm glad the direction Bioware is taking now with queer characters in video games. So, yeah, I don't mind that Anders likes dudes too. It's not like we had an in-depth analysis on his sexuality and past flings in Awakening.

As I have no problem with your opinion on the subject, but you must admit that its a bit ridiculous making all the characters Bi. And a bit lazy. In real life you don't have the option of sleeping with everyone you see/know. People have preferences, and more often than not people are going to be straight.

I would rather there have been a more, how should I put it, right for the part character for all romances, than making them all once size fits all.

 

[Grunk]

wikkedjoker wrote...


As I have no problem with your opinion on the subject, but you must admit that its a bit ridiculous making all the characters Bi. And a bit lazy. In real life you don't have the option of sleeping with everyone you see/know. People have preferences, and more often than not people are going to be straight.

I would rather there have been a more, how should I put it, right for the part character for all romances, than making them all once size fits all.

 

But this isn't real life. And how do you know that more often than not the people you meet are straight? Or are you assuming that because it's normalized? Do you ask all the people you meet? The cashiers, cab drivers, bus drivers, mail wo/men, teachers, students, kids, food workers, etc? I don't mean to be a jerk, but that's a pretty humongous assumption.

I don't really see how it's lazy; it's accomodating. Maybe some guy wanted to romance Alistair, some girl Morrigan, and couldn't. For what reason? What in their characters demanded that they have a sexual preference? Similarly, what in Anders/Fenris/Merrill/Isabela's character demanded they have romantic preferences (that is, whom they will fall in love with, not just have sex with)? I'm actually annoyed Sebastion is heterosexual just because he's a Chantry goon because the Chantry has no rule about sexuality (as far as I know).

What you call unrealistic, I call appropriately accomodating for the fanbase. If the writing called for one of them to have specific sexual preferences, do that, but if not, then what is the purpose of doing it other than to be pointlessly restrictive?

[highcastle]

Xandiva wrote...

About the Anders thing: I really didn't feel like he threw himself at me. My first playthrough was aimed at making him my primary LI for my male hawke. Initially, whenever I chose the "flirty" option, he would give me a smirk at best, and appear to ignore my comment completely, while soapboxing for mages.

I would've mentioned this if you hadn't. I don't really see why so many people comment about Anders "throwing himself" at their wardens. I actively pursued the romance, and it took quite a while before he admitted his attraction with actual words. He was definitely more subtle than Zevran in Origins (or Zevran in DA2, for that matter).

On topic: I'd never been so pleased to be proven wrong when DA2 came out and all the LIs were revealed as bi. I honestly thought it would never happen. Well, not yet, anyway. But it did, and I'm beyond pleased. Finally, options for everyone. 

I also love that the same sex options are just as rich as the straight ones. While I appreciated Zevran and Leliana in Origins, it definitely feels like there's less reactivity to their relationships than Alistair or Morrigan's. And that's understandable because Al and Morrigan play a more central role in the story. But in DA2, everything is more focused on Hawke and his relationships and life, so it's natural his romance is commented upon by everyone. And again, I loved it. I loved Varric pulling me aside to caution me about Anders. Sebastian and Isabela did it, too. Even banters reflected my choice. It felt like it mattered.

So count me fully in the camp happy with BioWare's inclusive attitude in the Dragon Age franchise

[Mark of the Dragon]

I was quite happy with how bioware approached this subject. I'm a traight guy but ti doesnt mean that i don't support homosexuality. I mean hey if it floats your boat. As for people saying everyoe in the game is bi just cause you can romance them as a male or female isnt true. Anders for example isnt technically bi he's either gay or straight. If you are a male character he mentions how he loved Karl (gay). However if you are a female character he's straight. He never mentions a relationship with Karl and if it comes up he'll tell you they were just friends (straight). It all depends on how you play. Also never once did Anders or Fenris proposition me or make me feel awkward cause they dont really flirt unless you initiate it with the heart icon. If they do you can always turn them down. I played with a female character once chose the broken heart icon to permanently end the relationship and his rival friendship points dont change or anything so it's no big deal. Express yourself in the game it's kinda the point.
If anything was wrong with our companions it was that they werent defined as well as origins (tho they were still cool). If Bioware can keep there stance on the rromances and give us some more really defines characters like Origins then it would be perfect.
Way to go Bioware