141 réponses à ce sujet

[ChloeRion]

I'm rather happy that everyone was a romantic option for everyone. I'm not saying it needs to be over baring and constantly hit people on the head. But it would be very nice if Mass Effect 3 would take a cue from DA2 and allow us to romance whom we want. I mean they don't need to make their characters hit on your character if they're the same gender unless you flirt first if they're really that conserned with "subjective sexualities". But it would be nice if my FemShep could be a full on lesbian and not bisexual, I like Kaiden he was a nice guy till ME2 but I would much rather have been with Ashley. As for ME2, seriously why couldn't I get my lesbian on with Jack, she was totally bad ass and my Shepard's type. All I'm saying is that I hope Bioware will continue this 'every romancable companion can be romanced regardless of gender' from here on out. Baby steps I suppose is what it's chalked up to, but ME2 was a full step back. Lets keep this forward momentum going please~~.

All in all I don't think Bioware has ever failed to repreasent homosexuality in a mature way, even way back in Jade Empire it was still rather mature and serious, alittle rushed but still mature.

[Soundsystem]

Grunk wrote...

wikkedjoker wrote...


As I have no problem with your opinion on the subject, but you must admit that its a bit ridiculous making all the characters Bi. And a bit lazy. In real life you don't have the option of sleeping with everyone you see/know. People have preferences, and more often than not people are going to be straight.

I would rather there have been a more, how should I put it, right for the part character for all romances, than making them all once size fits all.

 

But this isn't real life. And how do you know that more often than not the people you meet are straight? Or are you assuming that because it's normalized? Do you ask all the people you meet? The cashiers, cab drivers, bus drivers, mail wo/men, teachers, students, kids, food workers, etc? I don't mean to be a jerk, but that's a pretty humongous assumption.

I don't really see how it's lazy; it's accomodating. Maybe some guy wanted to romance Alistair, some girl Morrigan, and couldn't. For what reason? What in their characters demanded that they have a sexual preference? Similarly, what in Anders/Fenris/Merrill/Isabela's character demanded they have romantic preferences (that is, whom they will fall in love with, not just have sex with)? I'm actually annoyed Sebastion is heterosexual just because he's a Chantry goon because the Chantry has no rule about sexuality (as far as I know).

What you call unrealistic, I call appropriately accomodating for the fanbase. If the writing called for one of them to have specific sexual preferences, do that, but if not, then what is the purpose of doing it other than to be pointlessly restrictive?

Agree wholeheartedly. People keep griping about the realism of having at the characters be bisexual but in addition to the assumptions above, that argument also forgets that the whole damn world of Dragon Age is not "realistic". It's a fantasy world! FANTASY FOR CRYING OUTLOUD!

As a queer gamer I cannot express how wonderful it is to have all options available to me regardless of my PC's gender. I get enough heteronormativity in my real life, it's nice to have it out of my video games. So pleased. 

[Fidget6]

formulanerd wrote...

mature, like rated M for mature? all the men are gay and throw themselves at you.

No, only Anders throws himself at you. You have to work REALLY hard to get Fenris to be interested in you, and Sebastian is always straight. 

[fthg42]

Also agreeing with the OP's sentiments.

I too really like the notion of Hawkesexual as a companion's orientation. The subjectivity of each companion's orientation was a brilliant way to frame the romances and make them truly accessible to everyone. It also made the romances feel more mature and fleshed out and less game-y to me. The scene where Anders reveals his past with Karl and his feelings about love was incredibly poignant.

Modifié par fthg42, 16 mars 2011 - 04:54 .

[Captain_Obvious]

I would concur with the OP. While I agree this is fantasy, my take on it is not one of homosexuality, bisexuality, or heterosexuality, but simply one of sexuality. If we ignore Sebastian for a moment, the fantasy universe lacks the divisive labels of what kind of sexuality it is. I find this quite refreshing. I wonder why Sebastian broke this pattern, but I'm not going to read anything into it. Kudos to Bioware for it.

[graciegrace]

Grunk wrote...
 I'm actually annoyed Sebastion is heterosexual just because he's a Chantry goon because the Chantry has no rule about sexuality (as far as I know).

Actually, from what I've read, the Chantry believes that marriage is only between a man and a woman.  Which doesn't surprise me since I always figured they were a representation of the Catholic Church

[Captain_Obvious]

graciegrace wrote...

Grunk wrote...
 I'm actually annoyed Sebastion is heterosexual just because he's a Chantry goon because the Chantry has no rule about sexuality (as far as I know).

Actually, from what I've read, the Chantry believes that marriage is only between a man and a woman.  Which doesn't surprise me since I always figured they were a representation of the Catholic Church

It's gotta say something about it.  After all in DA:O when you gave morrigan the chant of light it was like -50 approval.  

Modifié par Captain_Obvious, 16 mars 2011 - 05:42 .

[Rikudou Sennin]

Anders, Fenris, Isabella and Merrill are all bi and i'm ok with it since i'm bi aswell and my parents don't care what i am.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I don't see how making every recruitable character bisexual is a mature take on homosexuality. That would seem to be a far cry from a mature representation of sex.

[AlphaMaeko]

"Hawkesexual"

I lol'd

[awwnuts07]

+1 for this thread. I'm a hetero male who prefers playing as a Lady Hawke so it was nice that I could court the girls as well as the guys. I think the idea of making the characters "Hawke-sexual" was a really great move on Bioware's part.

Hopefully, next up we'll have "Shep-sexual".

Modifié par awwnuts07, 17 mars 2011 - 01:48 .

[Iyacathor]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't see how making every recruitable character bisexual is a mature take on homosexuality. That would seem to be a far cry from a mature representation of sex.

Because they're not bisexual, they are straight/gay based on your gender.

And lets be honest, there aren't that many companions and if they cut this the first thing cut would be homosexual romances because a significant portion of the population is not homosexual/dislikes homosexuality. This is a more elegant solution that allows gay and gay friendly gamers to not feel so excluded while still catering  to the straight people.

Remember, only six companions without DLC. This isn't Mass Effect 2.

[Shazzie]

Iyacathor wrote...
Because they're not bisexual, they are straight/gay based on your gender.

YES. THIS.
Man, it really bugs me when everyone's calling all the companions (minus Sebastian) bisexual.
THEY AREN'T. Or, at least, they don't display ******/bisexuality unless certain criteria are met.
Anders and Fenris have never displayed anything but heterosexuality in my games so far (I only play as FemHawke). Merrill has never displayed any interest in my character at all, since I never flirted with her. Isabela has, of course, but c'mon...that's Isabela. She's a completely sexual creature, gender doesn't matter at all.

Just because you played a guy and Anders pouted when you didn't hit on him doesn't make him bisexual in MY game. He wasn't. He was still only interested in pretty girls and shooting lightning at fools.

The companions aren't bisexual, or homosexual, or heck, even heterosexual, really. They're Hawkesexual, the way they were coded to be. It's not 'all characters coded to be bi' it's 'all characters coded to be attracted to Hawke'. Hawke is, after all, just that  awesome.

Modifié par Shazzie, 17 mars 2011 - 01:54 .

[darkrose]

MsKehoe wrote...

Oh, the rampant complaining about ~too much homosexuality in the game is hilarious considering how much heterosexuality is shoved in my face on a daily basis.

And it's not uneven. You have four love interests (two guys, two girls). All are bisexual (yes, even Anders. He explains quite bluntly that he falls for a person rather than their body. This doesn't mean your relationship with him is any less real if you play a female Hawke).

Thank you. I keep scratching my head, because Anders gives the standard bisexual party line (comes free with your half copy of the Gay Agenda). I've not only heard that before, I'm pretty sure I've said it more than once.

And frankly, even though it's a cliche, I much prefer it to Zevran's "Well, I like girls, but if I can't get any, I'll settle for you" that he gives the male Warden.

[MsKehoe]

darkrose wrote...

MsKehoe wrote...

Oh, the rampant complaining about ~too much homosexuality in the game is hilarious considering how much heterosexuality is shoved in my face on a daily basis.

And it's not uneven. You have four love interests (two guys, two girls). All are bisexual (yes, even Anders. He explains quite bluntly that he falls for a person rather than their body. This doesn't mean your relationship with him is any less real if you play a female Hawke).

Thank you. I keep scratching my head, because Anders gives the standard bisexual party line (comes free with your half copy of the Gay Agenda). I've not only heard that before, I'm pretty sure I've said it more than once.

And frankly, even though it's a cliche, I much prefer it to Zevran's "Well, I like girls, but if I can't get any, I'll settle for you" that he gives the male Warden.

Yeah, I feel like people are more comfortable with the subjective gay/straight line, so they don't have to play~ with a bisexual Anders if they don't want to. However, he clearly is. Also keep in mind that sexuality is not a big deal in Dragon Age. Everyone boffs whoever they want. They only care when it's making babies time and even then it's only with the caste Dwarves, human nobles, and elves (in order to preserve their line). 

[Mystik]

it's fine that it's optional but I don't like getting rivalry points with Anders for giving a nice response instead of a romance one. I'd like to be able to have bros without the bromance.

[UkiiUkii]

THIS-ing the OP.


I love how Bioware finds the perfect way to be inclusive with the romances and make everyone happy, and people still find reasons to **** about it.

Kudos to you Bioware, ignore the haters and keep being awesome.

[MsKehoe]

Mystik wrote...

it's fine that it's optional but I don't like getting rivalry points with Anders for giving a nice response instead of a romance one. I'd like to be able to have bros without the bromance.

My brother rejected him with his Hawke too and still managed to be BFFz with Anders by the end of the game. So, it's possible to go on with the bromance without the romance.

[Trophonius]

I always thought of Karl being Anders' lover as something that was just left out of the straight romance to cater to "subjective sexuality", but isn't necessarily false. They were probably romantically involved no matter what. But as mentioned already, he doesn't say anything about it with f!Hawke so that he could be straight in certain people's games.

Either way, it's refreshing to see a character like Anders being available to male Hawke. He's largely complex and massively relevant to the plot. Something we unfortunately didn't get with Zevran (minus the complex part. He's just as, if not a little less, complicated himself). 

Modifié par Trophonius, 17 mars 2011 - 05:23 .

[Bonus Pretzel]

I'm glad to see so many positive responses and fascinating views to this topic. There's a reason Bioware is hands down my favorite game developer.

[Gerrium]

Shepard Lives wrote...

Gerrium wrote...

I personally didnt like the idea. In DA:O as a male you have Zevran and for me that was enough and I was ok with it , but in this game 2 dudes could be homosexual if you chose to pursue that....thats too much

You guys have to remember that there are still many...many people in the world who see homosexuality as wrong wether is religious or secular motivation. Teenagers do play these games,(notice im not saying kids LOL) at this early stage in their lives I'm pretty sure they have seen homosexuality in the, street,school,tv... but at videogames...come on. Even the courtesans at the blooming rose:


One guy
A tranny Elf
One woman

So thats 2 guys and one woman, it is hilarious but there you have it.

Returning to the companion, the player exprience So I have 3 homosexuals and one Bi, one is taken, the other is brother/ sister and theres the dwarf. So thats leaves you with no real heterosexuals. I understand that homosexuality is something has always happend, just that is advertised more these days, but that doesnt mean you have to take every facet of entertainment and insert homosexuality, most people are not going to like it. Homosexuality is still a minority.

It is just an aspect that I found.. not cool. Gay tony was a side story,of greater story of the GTA Series. They made it its own game,I didnt play it. I dont like side stories. I personally would'tn want to play as a homosexual hero wether is male or female. I dont discriminate but I dont support it.

No.

Why is there such a thing as "too much homosexuality" and nothing like "too much heterosexuality"? Because most people dislike homosexuals (sadly true)? Does that mean homosexuals should have less rights, simply because they are a minority? And you say you're not discriminating.
Should game developers say "Sorry gay people, we wanted to give you content, but our gay-o-meter is dangerously close to the hetero-offending zone"?

I see so many heterosexuals here who are like spoiled children. You've been the absolute center of attention in fiction for, like, two thousand years. Now, us bisexuals and homosexuals are starting to get a little recognition, and your reaction is "What the hell? You don't deserve to get as much attention as I do. Go back to your closed communities."

Try to let go of the condtioning you have no doubt been subjected to by today's mass media. There is nothing inherently wrong or embarrassing with showing homosexuality. It does not mean gay people are taking over and sneering at you as they begin to rule over all media.

We are human beings, just like you are.


This will not stand. If you call yourself a person who does not discriminate, then you should "support homosexuality", whatever that means. Saying that there should be less gay people because it offends you is taking away the freedom of your fellow man.

To answer your first question, because homosexuality it is NOT a predetermined thing. Meaning, you aren't born that way. Henceforth it is not normal. I am not going to argue about this, you have your opinion I have mine, simple. (since this is a forum to discuss and give your opinion)  I dont think is dislike, because we are all human beings with potential to excel, but rather a disagreement of  a genders sexual preference. Dude, if anything I was saying at first DA:O has homosexual content I didnt complain about, but not as much as this.

My complain is towards a video game that reach many... MANY  children and teenagers and that mass media(video games are a part of it) your accusing me of being brainwashed by, also would certaintly affect them. Your complaining because I somehow said I dont want homosexuals getting anything in life and recognition. I dont know where you got that from....and its really ...funny.  If anything alot presumptions you wrote about me are as false as Fenris's love for mages.

I really dont have to prove anything to you, If you think I'm from a closed community or subject of mass media , well all I can say is... your accusations are relative.

Homosexual is just a sexual preference, humans beings that  can do whatever they choose to, but their practice and views of such preference, in my eyes, are wrong.

[AtreiyaN7]

Gerrium wrote...


*snips to make this shorter*

Really? And what makes your belief right, when science seems to (thus far) indicate that it's biological. If it's a matter of conscious choice, do you think I'm going to wake up tomorrow and suddenly go, oh, I'm suddenly interested in being bi! No, I'm a hetero female who likes guys - it's just an innate part of who I am. i didn't make a conscious choice about it - it just was. That I find men to be attractive is just a matter of biology.

People who are gay or bi are the same - they didn't suddenly choose to be gay or bi out of the blue. It's part of who they are, though they may not have immediately come to that realization. There's nothing wrong with it in any case, and your views seem rather narrow-minded. I think it was nice that everyone got to enjoy the LI that they preferred in DA2, whether or not they're bi/gay/straight .

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 19 mars 2011 - 10:42 .

[Kitimandiri]

Oooh I know! I know this one!

Put all the homosexuals in a giant tower and have warrior-priests under a vow of celibacy watch them at ALL TIMES.

This will solve everything.

[Gilsa]

Know those racing car games where if you finished in first place, your driver would be standing on the podium with a trophy and a babe on the arm? This is exactly what was given to the players -- the feeling of being a hero with the babe of choice by their side. They handled the romances beautifully. I was really pleased to see that everyone was treated equally.

Now ... all they need to do is add dwarven romance to the roster and the circle will be complete!

[Trophonius]

By that logic, if I chose to be gay, then that obviously means I can easily ignore and divert my attraction to other men to suddenly being attracted to women? If you're saying it was my choice, then it's just as much of a choice as yours to be attracted to the opposite sex. Most things in the world can't be explained my mere perception of what's innate and what's environmental. You say it like we can just turn it off/on whenever we feel like it. If that was the case, then millions of gay people wouldn't have to be subject to unjust subjugation everyday of their lives.