143 réponses à ce sujet

[Esoj16]

JamesX wrote...

Problem is in DA:O You actually care. In DA2 the people are sooo idiotic that I find it hard to really care about what they are doing. It is like watching an alcoholic who is refusing to help themselves.

Of all the bad things that happen, they arn't as bad as some of the things in Origins. Hawke's family is not nearly as tragic as Human Noble, nor as Tragic as City Elves.

The death of the Dealish Clan is not as tragic as the Genocide of the Werewolves (or the other way around for Werewolves against humans). The death of the clan in DA2 is avoidable - though not if you went the honesty way.

I completely disagree, Hawke's story is much more tragic than human noble, in the human noble story both of your parents die together in a noble and somewhat romantic death and your brother eventually comes back to reclaim all your titles, the human noble itself can become king/queen of Ferelden.  Hawke's mom has to suffer the death of one of her children and the loss of the other shortly after, then she's kidnapped by a psycho mage and turned into a horrible monster all the while waiting for her remaining child to rescue her, that's what I call despair, and who's to say the mage didn't rape her before, or after, doing all those atrocities to her.  Even the city elves can get a happy ending with your cousin becoming the Arl of the Alienage and gaining more political power.

You do realize that you can actually save the werewolves from the curse and avoid the death of the Dalish in Origins right?  The only people you lose is the Lady of the forest and Zathrian, where as in Merril's case the keeper dies no matter what because of Merril's actions and her clan is left without a keeper and a first even if you don't kill the entire clan.  There was always a way to get a happy ending in DA:O, t'is not so in DA2

[JamesX]

Link3521 wrote...

I completely disagree, Hawke's story is much more tragic than human noble, in the human noble story both of your parents die together in a noble and somewhat romantic death and your brother eventually comes back to reclaim all your titles, the human noble itself can become king/queen of Ferelden.  Hawke's mom has to suffer the death of one of her children and the loss of the other shortly after, then she's kidnapped by a psycho mage and turned into a horrible monster all the while waiting for her remaining child to rescue her, that's what I call despair, and who's to say the mage didn't rape her before, or after, doing all those atrocities to her.  Even the city elves can get a happy ending with your cousin becoming the Arl of the Alienage and gaining more political power.

Human Parent's Death Speech  vs Carver/Bethany Death Speech?  

Becoming Prince Consort of Feralden vs Becoming Vicount of Kirkwall?

Hawek's Mom suffering the death of 2 children.  Human Noble's Family suffering death of Grand Son, Daughter in Law, entire HOUSE HOLD, Loyal Friends (The guests), Husband, etc.

Despair?  Seeking the King's Support to finally vindicate your family.  Finding out the King is betrayed, justice beyond reach, your brother died in the Wyld (You have no idea he lived till the very end), then finding out Arl Howel is now hold your title, and is all but untouchable by the law of the land.  

Atrocities?  As compared to the possibility of "I will take the 40 soverigns and leave my cousin" ?

Happy Ending does not make an story any less emotionally draining.  If you consider Tragic Ending to be end all be all.  Also almost all of the tragedy in the game are caused by their own fault.

Merriel's clan's death?  It is because she is completely and utterly blind to the fact what she is doing is dangerous and wrong.  Her "mother" paid her price for HER, because she is too blind to see it.

Your 1st Sibling's death... don't even get me started on that stupidity.  Avaline Soloed the Ogre on normal difficulty.

Your 2nd Sibling's death at the deep roads.  You were the idiot that insisted he/she go with you.

The mother's death is unavoidable, but that isn't because a trusted friend betrayed your family out of petty jealousy and hunger for power - or some insane noble who is sadistic and has all too much power over your family.  It was a random act of god.  She happen to look like the dead man's wife.  These are not deep emotional causes.

[maselphie]

I agree, it was easy for me to not die from the Archdemon AND become queen in the same day in DA:O. That's happy sappy good times. Awakenings was more grey, in that you had to pick what to save near the end. DA2? The world will be at war. I didn't know how or why, nor did I care, until the ending. Seeing all the pieces fall around me, I was devastated at what had happened. I will care immensely about DA3's war, unlike what I would have without DA2.

As for Dalish choices: they exist left and right in DA2, but I guess we're taking them for granted now?

[Bluumberry]

JamesX wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

In Origins I did my decisions mostly because I wanted to be the good guy so I chose "good" decisions but what the outcome was didn't really mater to me one bit.

I DA2 I'd have the dialogue options in front of me open for large moments of time, pondering what I should choose and whatever happened usually left me breathless. 

>.>  So when you have to figure out what each line implies you didn't bother with thinking it out.

When each line's effect is obvious (e.g. the icon on the wheel) you had to think it out?

That just seems odd to me.

And I do agree, that alot of times what happened leaves me confused - beacause what they said is not what I thought the line meant.

I even let Anders live because I thought the line "You Can Stay" would be "you can now defend the people you put in danger, and we'll deal with your crime when the crisis is over."

Instead it became "Ok, I forgive you"   .... Major "HUH!!!!????" moment.

The entire story lacks nuiance and detail, it is just ramroding an conclusion that is only reached because everyone had to be archtypes because anyone with a ounce of intelligence and foresight would not have reached that conclusion.

Bluumberry wrote...

Have you tried/seen the cutscene of Hawke betraying Fenris? If you say that's not emotionally engaging then I don't even know what to say to you.

I don't think I said there is no parts of the story that is good.  I was commenting on the examples that the OP Listed.

And I never betrayed Fenris.  I don't enjoy playing evil characters or characters who lack integrity.  Just a personal thing.

But all in all, the key moments of the Hawke family - such as death of first sibling, the death of mother, was far less emotionally tangling than Human Noble in DA:O for me.  

The death of 2nd Sibling in the Deep Road got me though.  That was brilliantly done.  It is one of the good parts about DA2 that the consequence of your decisions are not often immediate, and they have lasting effects.  DA:O only had 1 such decision and that is if you saved circle or not - which is insufficient.

We can agree to disagree and I give you +20 rivalry points.

Joking aside I really didn't find human noble engaging at all, and even when confronting Howe on my Cousland I was basically yawning my way through.

The only origins I found engaging was the mage, and others say it was the most boring.

And no I didn't ponder my decisions because "oh in origins I had no idea what this line would do and now I do know what it will cause!" but it was because I actually cared about what happened in the decisions.

I don't like to play "evil" characters either, so no I didn't betray Fenris. But I did watch the cutscene of someone else doing so and felt miserable afterwards.

So yes, I found DA2 very engaging and enjoyed myself very much in comparison to Origins in this regard. Still think DA2 needed more companion & romance interaction.

[Sanguinerin]

I did love that the story was captivating enough to draw out a lot of emotional responses. The downside, however, was that there really weren't enough positive emotional responses to block out all of the negative ones and I find making a second playthrough to be presently off-putting. I'm not ready to put myself through unnecessary frustration at not being able to do just about anything at all with all of the game's sorrows.

[rueless]

Stepping aside from the debate about DA:O vs DA2, I have to say that this game rocked me- a few times.
brother crushed by ogre- and blamed by mother for it;
get to Kirkwall to live in squalor and essentially work a a slave for a year;
romance Fenris- he leaves;
sister dragged off to gallows;
romance Anders- he lies to me, accuses me of being a fair-weather lover, and blows everyone up; mother killed in most gruesome, disturbing manner possible (actually made me cry IRL).

I felt like I was so cursed at every turn. There is no happy ending in this game. I haven't completed first run through due to the emotional angst of it all. UGH!
I feel so toxic because I love and hate it at the same time. Well done Bioware. No other game series has brought up this level of emotion for me.

[maselphie]

JamesX wrote...

Human Parent's Death Speech  vs Carver/Bethany Death Speech?

Carver/Bethany. You actually know the characters. The parent in the origins are just avatars and "you should totes care abouts them ok"

Becoming Prince Consort of Feralden vs Becoming Vicount of Kirkwall?

Country vs. a City? Not really fair, but I would say, as intimate as you are with Kirkwall and the previous Viscount, Kirkwall wins.

Hawek's Mom suffering the death of 2 children.  Human Noble's Family suffering death of Grand Son, Daughter in Law, entire HOUSE HOLD, Loyal Friends (The guests), Husband, etc.

Again, just numbers, not characters.

Despair?  Seeking the King's Support to finally vindicate your family.  Finding out the King is betrayed, justice beyond reach, your brother died in the Wyld (You have no idea he lived till the very end), then finding out Arl Howel is now hold your title, and is all but untouchable by the law of the land.

Despair? Romancing Anders, and then killing him by your own hand. Realizing he lied to you and used you, and was prepared to die for it. Realizing that your mother was sent White Lillies, that Merril is not as cute as she seems, that Isabella is to blame for most everything. Not [person with a title here] and [person you're supposed to care about there], but actual characters you know.

Atrocities?  As compared to the possibility of "I will take the 40 soverigns and leave my cousin" ?

Compared to ... Giving Fenris back to Danarius? Selling Isabella out to the Qunari? 

Your 2nd Sibling's death at the deep roads.  You were the idiot that insisted he/she go with you.

No, Carver/Bethany wanted to go. Please listen again.

The mother's death is unavoidable, but that isn't because a trusted friend betrayed your family out of petty jealousy and hunger for power - or some insane noble who is sadistic and has all too much power over your family.  It was a random act of god.  She happen to look like the dead man's wife.  These are not deep emotional causes.

Not so random. You were deeply involved with Quentin's murders, you heard your mother wanted to try dating again, you heard that she was sent the telltale sign of those murders -- your thoughts instantly race to whether or not you killed the blood mage from the earlier quest. You turn to despair if you killed him, or being duped if you didn't. It jerks the chain on your heart and your choices, unlike "madman on a power binge, same old same old."

I pick apart, but you're not being impacted by this game because you chose not to be, not because it didn't have the potential.

Modifié par maselphie, 15 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[SupidSeep]

Bluumberry wrote...

On my first playthrough, when "Leandra" rose from that chair and turned around for the first time....I had to pause and get up from the chair for a while.

That scene nearly snapped me.  That, plus the murder of Saemus so soon after compelled me to stop playing and delete all my saves before starting afresh.

The impact is quite different from having Cousland's family wiped out at the beginning of DA:O.  Getting Hawke to make it big in Kirkwall and seeing his/her mother living in the family estate, I kind of expected or hoped that the mother will at least depart in a more peaceful manner (died in sleep) or at worst a clean death.  Not this horrible outcome

The way the story strings me out on the outcome also adds to the shoc.

[Kitaen]

I still wanna find the Peaches in Carver's dirty letter!
Where is that scamp! ^..~
Poor Barlin was never the wiser, all that fornication behind the barn!
*Searches DAO...* =P

[katiebour]

I second the call for some DLC to explore what happens with Hawke and Anders after the end (if you choose that romance subplot) or for that matter, what happens with Bethany/Merrill/Varric/Isabela/everyone else. I liked that in DA:O you got a denoument that talked about where the characters went and what happened to them... I feel unfulfilled just knowing that Hawke and Anders are on the run. Anders says "We'll create a world for our children...(and so on)" so show me the kids! Are they hiding out in some Ferelden backwater, farming? Did they go to Tevinter? Another city in the Free Marches? I want some kind of happily-ever-after, dammit!

But kudos to Bioware for such an engaging game.

[highcastle]

katiebour wrote...

I second the call for some DLC to explore what happens with Hawke and Anders after the end (if you choose that romance subplot) or for that matter, what happens with Bethany/Merrill/Varric/Isabela/everyone else. I liked that in DA:O you got a denoument that talked about where the characters went and what happened to them... I feel unfulfilled just knowing that Hawke and Anders are on the run. Anders says "We'll create a world for our children...(and so on)" so show me the kids! Are they hiding out in some Ferelden backwater, farming? Did they go to Tevinter? Another city in the Free Marches? I want some kind of happily-ever-after, dammit!

But kudos to Bioware for such an engaging game.

I second the call for DLC exploring the post-game, but I don't think Happily Ever After is in the cards for Hawke and Anders. I romanced him too and I adore his arc, but even my first Hawke who escaped with him knows this can't end well. You don't do something as explosive as starting a war and then walk away from it unscathed. Anders blew up the Chantry. Lots of innocents would've lost their lives. That has to leave it's marks.

Not to mention, Anders is still possessed. By Justice/Vengeance. Even in one of his banters, Anders admits that if he were to kill a bunch of people in order to win freedom for the mages, justice would still have to be served. He expected to die for what he did. I don't think he can just walk away and pretend it didn't happen. I don't think Justice would let him.

Back on topic: I loved the game's dark, gritty tone. I adore tragedies, and this is one of the greats. I'm also on my second playthrough right now, and I have no problem reliving the emotional moments. It's much more engaging than any other game I've played in the last ten years, at least.

[fthg42]

I love this entire thread, and agree with so many of the sentiments here.

I've always preferred darker stories, and the tone of DAII suited me perfectly. It's really not a story about saving the world or resolving the conflict between mages and templars, but a story about the life and times of Hawke, and how he struggles at the center of it all when it spirals out of control. Having Hawke be continuously defined by the tragedies that befall him, and really just being one of the players amidst the politics and turmoil of Kirkwall wonderfully inverted the whole hero archetype. Dark, deep, gut-wrenching - so much good stuff. Even if I was left emotionally wrecked at the end of it all.

highcastle wrote...

Back on topic: I loved the game's dark, gritty tone. I adore tragedies, and this is one of the greats. I'm also on my second playthrough right now, and I have no problem reliving the emotional moments. It's much more engaging than any other game I've played in the last ten years, at least.

Completely on the spot.  This is, at heart, a classic tragedy.  And it's awesome.

Modifié par fthg42, 15 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[JamieCOTC]

For all its faults. DA2 is one of the most personal and emotional games I've ever played. On that score, bravo to BioWare.

[HenchxNarf]

It's very dark, but that's what I like about it.

I also like that even if you ****** one of your party off, they won't up and leave you like in Origins.

I really enjoyed the story in DA2, it was something I hadn't seen coming (even though I spoiled myself on some stuff) and it makes playing multiple times worth it. I played a rogue on my first play through, and now I'm playing a mage.

And I have to say...

I miss Bethany. Carver, I can never make happy with anything.

[Jangocat]

I agree. I was so mad when they took Bethany, especially since there was no option to fight to save her. I was absolutely livid when I saw what the killer did to mother. Haven't finished the game yet so I'm not sure what I'll think of the various endings. People are critical of this story but I gotta admit parts of it really got an emotional reaction out of me. This doesn't feel as grand in scope as DA and overall it looks like DA had a better story, but this one is very dark and tragic.

[Taritu]

I like the story. I have some real issues with the gameplay, but overall the story is great. And my romance with Merrill (leaving aside the bugs) is far better than my romances with any of the DAO crew. I did feel a little abused on both Bethany and the mother, but at the end, I think it worked (especially Bethany, who I lost completely on my first run into the Dark Roads. God was I upset. Although it really feels like something they should have done in DAO, rather than DA2, those characters fought way more Darkspawn.)

I actually think this story is slightly better than DAO's. DAO's, at the end of the day was just a well done "save the world from the big bad" storyline.  Though I do think it was perhaps a bit much, sometimes.  I had a real existential angst moment after my mum died: "I did all of this for my family, and now they're all dead, except Gamlen?"

At that point, my Hawke, clung, hard, to Merrill.

Modifié par Taritu, 15 mars 2011 - 10:14 .

[Taritu]

Myusha wrote...

Hawke was a tragic failure...Hawke lost their sibling, their home, and went on to struggle for years to survive in Kirkwall. They find a break, only to possibly lose their sibling to the blight. They slowly garner fame and move forward, when their mother is slain, and made into a monster prior to her death, where everything you may have once stood for is now lost and you have nothing left to fight for...and in a romance with Anders, you may feel you can finally move on, but the Chantry is destroyed [Potentially crushing for Hawkes who like the Chantry], your beloved has now caused a war, and the two great forces go head to head. With Sebastian, you may have to kill your boyfriend, or face the wrath of an entire different country soon, and both Orsino and Meredith let you down, no matter who's side you take.

Where's my happy ending...?

There were some issues, for example, if Sebastian threatened that, and I had my way, if I decided not to kill Anders, I'd definitely kill Sebastian on the spot rather than allow him to run off and raise an army and kill even more people.

[casedawgz]

Thought it was a brilliantly conceived narrative to be honest. Typically Bioware can really move me once, maybe twice per game, and typically from some big, main quest scene that's SUPPOSED to move you. But honestly, I got very emotional a number of times throughout the game. The scene with Gamlen after Leandra dies, the joy of seeing Bethany again met with despair when I realized that she blamed me for her new life, Isabella's betrayal, the friendship with Varric...too many moments to mention, really. I was wholly invested in the tale, and it truly wasn't even about the destination like it is with so many other games. The journey itself was an utter joy to experience, and I loved every moment of it. Except the gang hideout in Hightown in Act 1. Screw those guys.

[Dragonette29]

I agree that the story was extremely dark, personal and emotionally engaging.
I loved every second of the game because of this and it made me tolerant of some minor technical faults.
BioWare doesn't cease to amaze me.

[Kemmer]

I love this game, but sometimes I have to step away due to the emotional impact. It's a credit to the game that it makes us feel this way, but yeah... damn, Hawke's life is harsh. I've slowed down a lot in Act III because I've been spoiled and I'm dreading what's coming. Sometimes I wish I could stay forever in Act II.

[Evindell]

The ending was one of the most emotional gaming moments for me. Even though I was a mage I played my Hawke as if all she really wanted was to survive and provide for her mother (and perhaps reconcile with her brother if he ever stopped whining), so I kind of middle lined the issue of mages vs. templars for most of the game. I was completely against blood magic and demons, though, and I did tell Fenris at one point that the Circle was a broken institution (basically. I can't remember the exact wording). So in the end when I was still trying to get Meredith and Orsino to calm down and go back home and Anders steps forward, BLOWING up the Chantry, I was completely in shock. I just stared, muttering "Oh, my god. Oh, my god. What have I done? I helped you do this, didn't I? What have I done? I screwed this up so bad!"

And when Sebastian wanted me to kill Anders I truly didn't know what to do. I thought of the Grand Cleric, who I kind of respected (though my Hawke wasn't the religious type) and all those people and thought about killing him, but I couldn't do it. Unlike some people, I also did like Sebastian and really wished I could have told him that if he had been in the Chantry I may not be as indecisive. But I was tired of losing everyone around me. First Bethany, then Carver left for the templars, basically betraying me, and then Isabela left me, then my mother died. I couldn't stand to kill Anders. We had been friends. I had flirted with him a little so I even imagined he was in love with Hawke. So I told him to leave. I wanted to scream when Sebastian threatened to come back to Kirkwall to find and kill Anders. I was hurt by his inability to see my side. I also really wished I could have reminded him that I single handedly defeated a Qunari invasion, and killed the Arishok in single combat. He could try, if he wished. I wasn't afraid.

Overall, I loved DAII story more than Origins, though I did love Origins.

[casedawgz]

Evindell wrote...

The ending was one of the most emotional gaming moments for me. Even though I was a mage I played my Hawke as if all she really wanted was to survive and provide for her mother (and perhaps reconcile with her brother if he ever stopped whining), so I kind of middle lined the issue of mages vs. templars for most of the game. I was completely against blood magic and demons, though, and I did tell Fenris at one point that the Circle was a broken institution (basically. I can't remember the exact wording). So in the end when I was still trying to get Meredith and Orsino to calm down and go back home and Anders steps forward, BLOWING up the Chantry, I was completely in shock. I just stared, muttering "Oh, my god. Oh, my god. What have I done? I helped you do this, didn't I? What have I done? I screwed this up so bad!"

And when Sebastian wanted me to kill Anders I truly didn't know what to do. I thought of the Grand Cleric, who I kind of respected (though my Hawke wasn't the religious type) and all those people and thought about killing him, but I couldn't do it. Unlike some people, I also did like Sebastian and really wished I could have told him that if he had been in the Chantry I may not be as indecisive. But I was tired of losing everyone around me. First Bethany, then Carver left for the templars, basically betraying me, and then Isabela left me, then my mother died. I couldn't stand to kill Anders. We had been friends. I had flirted with him a little so I even imagined he was in love with Hawke. So I told him to leave. I wanted to scream when Sebastian threatened to come back to Kirkwall to find and kill Anders. I was hurt by his inability to see my side. I also really wished I could have reminded him that I single handedly defeated a Qunari invasion, and killed the Arishok in single combat. He could try, if he wished. I wasn't afraid.

Overall, I loved DAII story more than Origins, though I did love Origins.

I feel you on the Anders decision. I felt that he deserved to die, but I couldn't do it. He'd saved my sister in the Deep Roads, and she was really all I had left. I couldn't kill him after that. I wish there had been a way to let one of your companions do it, though.

[Evindell]

casedawgz wrote...

Evindell wrote...

The ending was one of the most emotional gaming moments for me. Even though I was a mage I played my Hawke as if all she really wanted was to survive and provide for her mother (and perhaps reconcile with her brother if he ever stopped whining), so I kind of middle lined the issue of mages vs. templars for most of the game. I was completely against blood magic and demons, though, and I did tell Fenris at one point that the Circle was a broken institution (basically. I can't remember the exact wording). So in the end when I was still trying to get Meredith and Orsino to calm down and go back home and Anders steps forward, BLOWING up the Chantry, I was completely in shock. I just stared, muttering "Oh, my god. Oh, my god. What have I done? I helped you do this, didn't I? What have I done? I screwed this up so bad!"

And when Sebastian wanted me to kill Anders I truly didn't know what to do. I thought of the Grand Cleric, who I kind of respected (though my Hawke wasn't the religious type) and all those people and thought about killing him, but I couldn't do it. Unlike some people, I also did like Sebastian and really wished I could have told him that if he had been in the Chantry I may not be as indecisive. But I was tired of losing everyone around me. First Bethany, then Carver left for the templars, basically betraying me, and then Isabela left me, then my mother died. I couldn't stand to kill Anders. We had been friends. I had flirted with him a little so I even imagined he was in love with Hawke. So I told him to leave. I wanted to scream when Sebastian threatened to come back to Kirkwall to find and kill Anders. I was hurt by his inability to see my side. I also really wished I could have reminded him that I single handedly defeated a Qunari invasion, and killed the Arishok in single combat. He could try, if he wished. I wasn't afraid.

Overall, I loved DAII story more than Origins, though I did love Origins.

I feel you on the Anders decision. I felt that he deserved to die, but I couldn't do it. He'd saved my sister in the Deep Roads, and she was really all I had left. I couldn't kill him after that. I wish there had been a way to let one of your companions do it, though.

I did reload at one point and chose to kill Anders just to see it for myself. And I must say right now that I am not really an overly emotional person, but my chest (my heart) literally hurt when he just slumped over, slowly closed his eyes, and died. And Hawke just calmly walked away. If there was a choice to have more emotion in the kill I might feel differently. Like, if there was slight differences in the animation based on how your relationship with Anders was, that might have satisfied me more. A friend vs. a rival killing him...

[JamesX]

maselphie wrote...

Carver/Bethany. You actually know the characters. The parent in the origins are just avatars and "you should totes care abouts them ok"

How in the world you know Carver and Bethany?  They have about the same screen time as your parents in Human Origins.

maselphie wrote...

Country vs. a City? Not really fair, but I would say, as intimate as you are with Kirkwall and the previous Viscount, Kirkwall wins.

A Country where a Fresh Off the Boat Slave sells for 100 soverigns...

maselphie wrote...

Again, just numbers, not characters.

So you are saying... if Bioware Declear that "this character can be future companion" that makes their death more meaningful?  Or is the meaning coming from the fact that your character grew up with these people and loves (hopefully) them?

maselphie wrote...

Despair? Romancing Anders, and then killing him by your own hand. Realizing he lied to you and used you, and was prepared to die for it. Realizing that your mother was sent White Lillies, that Merril is not as cute as she seems, that Isabella is to blame for most everything. Not [person with a title here] and [person you're supposed to care about there], but actual characters you know.

I thinkthe problem is that the characters in DA:O is more "known" to me than the character in DA2.  I didn't like Iron Man 2.  If you liked the movie then there is no point of this conversation.  I couldn't get over the fact his moral delima in Iron Man 2 is avoidable with a 12 volt car battery.

That is the problem with DA2.  Vast majority of their problems (not all) are self-inflicted.  As an intelligent person they shouldn't be making those mistakes.  Which is why I said they are archtypical and ramroded into decisions just so the story can be taken in a specific direction.

maselphie wrote...

Compared to ... Giving Fenris back to Danarius? Selling Isabella out to the Qunari?

So you are saying it is better to give up your actual cousin you grow up with to rapists and murders for 40 soverign?  than to give a Slave back to his master or a Thiving Companion back to face the justice of people she stole it from?

All of them are bad.  But the people in this thread make it sound like DA:O is a peach, that all path are roses.  Which is why I pointed out that it isn't.

maselphie wrote...

No, Carver/Bethany wanted to go. Please listen again.

And she would only go if you insisted they going.  Please read again.  If you said, no, mom is right, they agree with you and stay.

maselphie wrote...

Not so random. You were deeply involved with Quentin's murders, you heard your mother wanted to try dating again, you heard that she was sent the telltale sign of those murders -- your thoughts instantly race to whether or not you killed the blood mage from the earlier quest. You turn to despair if you killed him, or being duped if you didn't. It jerks the chain on your heart and your choices, unlike "madman on a power binge, same old same old."

Random in the sense it could have been anyone.  Your mother was picked because she looked like the dead wife.  She wasn't picked because you were investigating the murder.  She wasn't picked because of ANYTHING you have done.  She was picked because she looked like someone.

That is random and completely out of your control.  

And you are actually wrong.  The DuLancet (I think) isn't the murder.  He was actually really looking for his wife.  If you let him live and convince Moria that he isn't a blood mage or something, he actually helps you find the real killer in the quest.  

[casedawgz]

JamesX wrote...


 

And you are actually wrong.  The DuLancet (I think) isn't the murder.  He was actually really looking for his wife.  If you let him live and convince Moria that he isn't a blood mage or something, he actually helps you find the real killer in the quest.  

The point is that if you killed Dulancet, you're under the impression that the murderer is dead and the city streets are safe. When your mom gets the white lillies, your horror is twofold: your mom has been abducted by a serial killer, and you murdered an innocent man.