224 réponses à ce sujet

[jones0901]

DA2 is a good game but origins is definitly not a fail. it is far superior to DA2 in every way except for the changes that invariably come between an original and sequal. bioware had some good ideas to make characters more individual, the armor being locked and the specializations of each character are good ideas, but in the end they were overdone. in DAO, each character could be helpful no matter what class/spec your warden took, but in DA2, you have Isabella if your a archer rogue, varric/sebastian if not, etc.
, while i agree that stories do not have to have world altering ramifications (BG1) case in point, Hawke's story is just not that strong. there is no storyline like the Urn of Sacred Ashes or the Deep Roads plot. the idea of Hawke's story could have been great, and is certainly good, but nowhere near as compelling as the wardens story. Even without the Archdemon, those plotlines were great.
lastly, thefighting style is fun and all, and i really hope they pull some aspects of it for DA3 but as a it stands in DA2, it is a simplification that really limits diversity in combat

[PurpleJesus]

Aesieru wrote...

The definition of trolling:

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/trolling

A less official definition from the less official dictionary:

An electronic mail message, Usenet posting or other (electronic) communication which is intentionally incorrect, but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the act of sending such a message. Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their minds.

Well i think it was 
a[/i] : to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat

but people just assumed it was a monster that lives under bridges. 
Is vulnerable to fire . 
And regenerates hitpoints. 

[TJSolo]

iinfinity wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

iinfinity wrote...

i agree with the OP, i think da 2 was a superior game in allmost all aspects, except not being able to stop and have a conversation with your companions, other then that im really enjoying da2, where as i stopped playing origins half way through, because of 1. the recycled armor and faces[destroyed realism for me] and 2. boring and un inspiring maps. so i am very happy right now i have a da game i can love and play all the way through

The recycles armor and maps of DA2 bothered you, right. I can't see you being to pleased with DA2's amount of recycling if DAO was a bother enough to stop playing, or you are just exaggerating.

the empty feeling maps like the elven forest area brecillian forest were what ultimatley put me off, seconded by the armor. i guess the reason im not as bothered by the da2 armor is because its more eye pleasing. but if im honest then da2 could do with more locations , but its not something thats gonna stop me playing it.

The elven forest area is a lot more active than the Dalish camp on Sundermount, there is a firepit where elves have gathered to talk, the keeper's area, a store, and even a Halla keeper.  The Brecillian area is more spansive than the Wounded Coast there just are not respawning ambushes and missions that have you go there more than 10 times.
But I guess I should not question your perception of the two.

Modifié par TJSolo, 15 mars 2011 - 04:13 .

[Silentmode]

Call him a troll if you want but I agree with the guy for the most part. In general I'd say DA2 is a better game, not in every aspect but in a lot. But he's dead wrong about Origins failing, it's only a hair behind DA2 in my book. Just my humble opinion.

[Aesieru]

Anathemic wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

The definition of trolling:

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/trolling

A less official definition from the less official dictionary:

An electronic mail message, Usenet posting or other (electronic) communication which is intentionally incorrect, but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the act of sending such a message. Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their minds.

Hey buddy, merriam-webster isn't working for you

--------

: to cause to move round and round : roll 2 a[/i] : to sing the parts of (as a round or catch) in succession b[/i] : to sing loudly c[/i] : to celebrate in song 3 a[/i] : to fish for by trolling b[/i] : to fish by trolling in <troll lakes> c[/i] : to pull through the water in trolling <troll a lure> d[/i] : to search in or at <trolls flea markets for bargains>; also : prowl <troll nightclubs> intransitive verb1 : to move around : ramble 2 a[/i] : to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat b[/i] : search, look <trolling for sponsors>; also : prowl 3 : to sing or play in a jovial manner 4 : to speak rapidly

---

******

If you're trying to insult me...

I have no idea how you plan to, because your post was just a quote... and nothing.

[iinfinity]

TJSolo wrote...

iinfinity wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

iinfinity wrote...

i agree with the OP, i think da 2 was a superior game in allmost all aspects, except not being able to stop and have a conversation with your companions, other then that im really enjoying da2, where as i stopped playing origins half way through, because of 1. the recycled armor and faces[destroyed realism for me] and 2. boring and un inspiring maps. so i am very happy right now i have a da game i can love and play all the way through

The recycles armor and maps of DA2 bothered you, right. I can't see you being to pleased with DA2's amount of recycling if DAO was a bother enough to stop playing, or you are just exaggerating.

the empty feeling maps like the elven forest area brecillian forest were what ultimatley put me off, seconded by the armor. i guess the reason im not as bothered by the da2 armor is because its more eye pleasing. but if im honest then da2 could do with more locations , but its not something thats gonna stop me playing it.

The elven forest area is a lot more active than the Dalish camp on Sundermount, there is a firepit where elves have gathered to talk, the keeper's area, a store, and even a Halla keeper.  The Brecillian area is more spansive than the Wounded Coast there just are not respawning ambushes and missions that have you go there more than 10 times.
But I guess I should not question your perception of the two.

well to me, the brecillian forest was just a sad and uninspiring place. i especially disliked the quest area for the warewolves, that was painfully dull. origins had its merits, just not enough to keep me playing, as much as i wished it did

[DiggingistDog]

I will only play DA2 once. I have played DAO many times. Though I liked DA2s new art direction DAO had more to offer to me. Other people feel different but others don't and this is why your argument is flawed because it could never be fact and neither can mine but at least I can admit that.

[R-F]

Currently on second playthrough and still loving it. Of course it has its flaws, but what game doesn't. Bioware isn't perfect but they sure are a heck of a lot better than 90% of the studios out there. Origins is one of my favourite games, but I tend to enjoy all BW games equally and I can't wait for more DA2 content to come out.

[iinfinity]

edit: saying that , player created content and dlc has made the game better,[for me] and i may go back to it after da2 to play with some of my addons i downloaded

[Cajeb]

But the story was the weakest part. It was very poorly executed

[Kusy]

Infinity... you stoped playing Orgins halfway through but you still buyed Awakening? (yes, everyone can see that little icon there). This means that a) you are lieing about not finishing DA:O or you are a person who buys an expansion that's suposed to continue your character's story without finishing what is suposed to be continued... and that would mean you are blindly buying a product without any sense... help me here.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 15 mars 2011 - 04:37 .

[iinfinity]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Infinity... you stoped playing Orgins halfway through but you still buyed Awakening? (yes, everyone can see that little icon there). This means that a) you are lieing about not finishing DA:O or you are a person who buys an expansion that's suposed to continue your character's story without finishing what is suposed to be continued... and that would mean you are blindly buying a product without any sense... help me here.

i was bought awakening by my sister , and since she didnt save the reciept i kept it, and havent even played awakening yet. i stopped playing origins just after the brecillian forest where your just about to go to the dwarves bit [ i forget the name] im not fibbing about stopping origins, but well pointed out

[Coldest]

SupR G wrote...

A story doesn't need to end with the slaying of an Archdemon to be great. Dragon Age 2 isn't about saving the world, it's about Hawke and the events that surrounded his rise to become the Champion. Bioware has spoiled you QQbears into believing the only good story is one that involves some seemingly unstoppable supervillain, and now you can't settle for anything less.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

You cited things that were, even to me who considers DA2 a disappointment, good. Yes DA2 is a letdown, but all the things you said like the storyline and how companions all looked unique were good changes.

The bad changes, however, are numerous.

Storyline spans 10 years and is supposed to be epic. It isn't. Main game takes more or less 15 hours to complete minus side quests, which is much less than Origins, whose storyline takes place in a couple of weeks/months.

Reused dungeons. There's no justifying this. BioWare cut corners and it shows. Also, the dozens of mind-numbing side quests that makes you feel like a minimum wage messenger instead of the Chamion of Kirkwall.

There are a dozen of other things negative about DA2 but I'll just let the others point them out.

[Mastermadskills]

Supr G, there were many many issues with this game that upset a lot of people.

I have said it before: There is one reason I didn't take out my disc, rip off my shirt, howl in rage, break the disc into little shards and EAT it because of all the flaws.

.. and that reason was Merrill and Sandal and the story.

But when the ending DID come... Oh boy. I was mad. BAM credit screen. Wtf?

[P1NG]

SupR G wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers, especially PC elitists, to so easily and aggressively turn against a popular developer when something doesn't go their way. You might call them names, hell I can think of a few, but really what's the point. Lemmings come and go.

Honestly, Dragon Age 2 is no innovation, it's really just implementing many of the streamlining changes that Mass Effect 2 improved on it's predecessor. So we can hardly call it revolutionary. But is it an improvement on DA:O? Absolutely. DA:O had a great story, almost too great, and barely left any room at all for a proper sequel. At least Mass Effect was written to be a trilogy.

A story doesn't need to end with the slaying of an Archdemon to be great. Dragon Age 2 isn't about saving the world, it's about Hawke and the events that surrounded his rise to become the Champion. Bioware has spoiled you QQbears into believing the only good story is one that involves some seemingly unstoppable supervillain, and now you can't settle for anything less.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

As for stats imbalance, just wait for a patch will you?

The simple fact of the matter here is, there is very little wrong with DA:2. It is a worthy successor, and fixes many of the issues DA:O had. Cherry picking little problems and annoyances, stating obvious changes you knew about for months, and then claiming all the fans hate DA:2 and that it failed is a great way to sound like an ignorant lemming. And before you continue your senseless ranting, keep in mind if they had made DA:O Part 2, there would be just as many, if not more people QQing.

Changes were made. Many, many of us love them. Deal with it and move on. DA:O is over and done with.

Opening your thread calling DA:O fans PC elitists is a good way to get negative feedback. I disagree with DA:2 being an improvment over its predecssor. It foolish to admit it didn't handle some aspects better, but the amount that the game lost from its "origins" =) is too big to ignore. Lets take a look at what changed.

Pros:
+ Combat animaitons are drastically better.
+ Loading times are much better (any game should expect this with new iterations however).
+ Main character is fully voiced (limits customization however).
+ Trash tab in inventory XD.

Cons:
- Customization is a centerpiece in all RPGs, and we lost 70% of what DA:O offered.
   - Companions custimzation is next to none.
   - One race (side-effect of the voicing aspect) <-- can't say getting a "main character" gave a better story, it didn't.
- Crafting went kindergarn, its simply a vendor now with a different currency.
- Combat was turned into hack/slash style gameplay for the first 3 diffuclites, and basic stragey for nightmare.
- Game was given an EA development timeframe, which accounts for dungeons being reused 6+ times in certain cases.
- ^^ We never leave the city, and the majoity of the game is becoming the badass of said city... GTA anyone?
- Original story/"save carry over" was basically meaningless, has no effect on the outplay of the story in this game.
- 80% of the "content" is doing errand boy work, see GTA anaolgy.

DA:O was given so much praise, and for EA/Bioware to simply cater to the console crowd and tell everyone to shove it we need more money, isn't going to give the game the same praise. Instead of finding solutions for the console iterations, they simply hacked the PC one, and "leveled" the playing field. 

How can you be content with the amount of content the game shipped with? It barley has more zones than DA:A, and the same area gets re-used so much its obscene. Also instead of meaningful eno****ers, we got the Bad Guy Closet from CoD, another gimmick to make the game seem longer.

I still had fun playing DA:2, but I have replayed it once, and I can safely say I will not do a third playthrough. Considering I've done more playthroughs than I can remember in DA:O, it says something about the game overall fun factor.

[thistlechaser]

I love the "mark this item as junk" option. It makes inventory management so much quicker.

[Karlieb]

SupR G wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers, especially PC elitists

And your post lost any legitimacy here.

Once you hit the ad hominem your point is, well... pointless.

[Cody211282]

Well I don't agree with you and rather then list my reasons again I'm just going to link them for you.

http://social.biowar...53046/1#6554440

Make of it what you will.

[88mphSlayer]

SupR G wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers, especially PC elitists, to so easily and aggressively turn against a popular developer when something doesn't go their way. You might call them names, hell I can think of a few, but really what's the point. Lemmings come and go.

Honestly, Dragon Age 2 is no innovation, it's really just implementing many of the streamlining changes that Mass Effect 2 improved on it's predecessor. So we can hardly call it revolutionary. But is it an improvement on DA:O? Absolutely. DA:O had a great story, almost too great, and barely left any room at all for a proper sequel. At least Mass Effect was written to be a trilogy.

A story doesn't need to end with the slaying of an Archdemon to be great. Dragon Age 2 isn't about saving the world, it's about Hawke and the events that surrounded his rise to become the Champion. Bioware has spoiled you QQbears into believing the only good story is one that involves some seemingly unstoppable supervillain, and now you can't settle for anything less.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

As for stats imbalance, just wait for a patch will you?

The simple fact of the matter here is, there is very little wrong with DA:2. It is a worthy successor, and fixes many of the issues DA:O had. Cherry picking little problems and annoyances, stating obvious changes you knew about for months, and then claiming all the fans hate DA:2 and that it failed is a great way to sound like an ignorant lemming. And before you continue your senseless ranting, keep in mind if they had made DA:O Part 2, there would be just as many, if not more people QQing.

Changes were made. Many, many of us love them. Deal with it and move on. DA:O is over and done with.

this post kinda reminds me of when ME2 came out and some people had issues with it, so what did people do? say the first game sucked in X number of ways, and that ME2 is way better

and what do people still talk about over a year after ME2 came out? those very same issues

if i were you, i'd get comfortable

[TheLastAwakening]

DA 2 combat > DA:O combat

DA:O story +++

DA 2 (not done yet but finding it hard to keep grounded. However, I am enjoy act 2 side quest more than act 1)

Of course my opinion may and will differ from others but, I fail to see how DA:O failed since without DA:O I would not even know about DA 2. Hmm, more like without ME, BG, Jade, Kotor, nwn I wouldn't know about DA 2.

DA 2 had a whole lot of potential but it went in two separate directions simultaneously : progression and dumbing down. The latter of the two brought the walls down.

[Drogo45]

I applaud you for this well written and thoughtful post, sir. I concur with you sentiments completely, and I think we will find that most folks do - even though they do not post on forums. I hope that BioWare will turn a deaf ear to the PC drivel being spewed out as fact - I believe they will because they are more interested in innovation instead of retardation of the RPG genre.

[Hiei987]

The OP sums things up well. Most of the hate for this game is completely uncalled for, but it is no surprise because of how touchy RPG communities often are. In time people will get over most of the aspects of the game that they currently think are a huge issue. DA2 took the right steps to ensure that this series goes on to have a great future.

[Shadowcrazy4]

TJSolo wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers, especially PC elitists, to so easily and aggressively turn against a popular developer when something doesn't go their way. You might call them names, hell I can think of a few, but really what's the point. Lemmings come and go.

You already did call them names along with attempting to make it seem that only PC gamers are the ones having a problem with this game. The very first problem I heard of was from people that post on gamefaqs in the 360 boards complaining that DA2 does not have auto-attack.

Honestly, Dragon Age 2 is no innovation, it's really just implementing many of the streamlining changes that Mass Effect 2 improved on it's predecessor. So we can hardly call it revolutionary. But is it an improvement on DA:O? Absolutely. DA:O had a great story, almost too great, and barely left any room at all for a proper sequel. At least Mass Effect was written to be a trilogy.

The story was almost too great, wut? Isn't the title of this thread "Why Dragon Age 2 is GOOD (and why Origins failed)."
We are not even talking trilogy for Dragon Age b/c trilogy limits Shepard's story to three games. DA2 is just a traditional sequel and there is no telling how many iterations Bioware will try to put out. Also ME2,...no comment.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

The whole making Wynne into a blood mage makes sense but the game is not designed to acknowledge or give it any meaningful consequences. DAO and DA2 both fail in providing a world that recognizing the player's choice of picking blood spec, or even much being a mage despite all the tension that exists with the Chantry, Templars, and apostates.
On the merits of looks alone the new designs are nice but within the context of the DA franchise they are flashy and inconsistent.

As for stats imbalance, just wait for a patch will you?

Until the patch the imbalances still stand and are viable topics of discussion.

The simple fact of the matter here is, there is very little wrong with DA:2. It is a worthy successor, and fixes many of the issues DA:O had. Cherry picking little problems and annoyances, stating obvious changes you knew about for months, and then claiming all the fans hate DA:2 and that it failed is a great way to sound like an ignorant lemming. And before you continue your senseless ranting, keep in mind if they had made DA:O Part 2, there would be just as many, if not more people QQing.

You seem to be cherry picking the "senseless ranting", what about the complaints against the game that even Bioware acknowledges? Reused maps, missing auto attack on consoles, rushed production. There are a couple feedback threads that devs/mods are watching and have thanked those who are participating in a civil manner.

you're about the ONLY person who has stated VALID and INTELLECTUAL points without having to insult anybody....you have my complete respect and your post should be the ONLY post that Bioware reads in this thread.

[Vena_86]

Origins failed?!
It sold better than ME2 although it's console version was crap and it's target audience was believed to be extinct.
So only once a franchise goes the direction you can appreciate it, it suddenly is "good"? Even when there are cut corners everywhere and retarded hype magazines such as IGN, that praise everything which has blood splatter give it ratings that are below general expectations.

Seriously, you dare to come here and insult the original target audience, "PC elitists", with this nonsense based on nothing but your own subjective preference.
Thanks for setting the standards for future games even lower.

[Cody211282]

Drogo45 wrote...

I applaud you for this well written and thoughtful post, sir. I concur with you sentiments completely, and I think we will find that most folks do - even though they do not post on forums. I hope that BioWare will turn a deaf ear to the PC drivel being spewed out as fact - I believe they will because they are more interested in innovation instead of retardation of the RPG genre.

Oh look, the cancer showed up, what a shock.