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Why Dragon Age 2 is GOOD (and why Origins failed)


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#76
SupR G

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Vena_86 wrote...

Origins failed?!
It sold better than ME2 although it's console version was crap and it's target audience was believed to be extinct.
So only once a franchise goes the direction you can appreciate it, it suddenly is "good"? Even when there are cut corners everywhere and retarded hype magazines such as IGN, that praise everything which has blood splatter give it ratings that are below general expectations.

Seriously, you dare to come here and insult the original target audience, "PC elitists", with this nonsense based on nothing but your own subjective preference.
Thanks for setting the standards for future games even lower.


Target audience was believed to be extinct? But the original target audience was "PC elitists"? And I dare come to an open forum with an opinion and share it? I think you should put a little thought into an argument before you start ranting. And maybe you should register a game too.

#77
SupR G

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Yeah, I could have listed all the flaws in my OP. But they just don't stick out far enough to bother me. Reused dungeons, a few glitches and some stats imbalances (that are worse for nightmare difficulty). It really doesn't ruin an entire game for me as it does for others. I also find there is a large inconsistency between what people actually dislike, and what they are just saying they dislike because they want to hop on the anti-Bioware bandwagon. If you're complaining about the combat, and you feel cheated, there was a demo out for weeks before the game was released. You could have played the demo, realized it was not the style you liked, and chose to NOT buy the game. Simple enough.

#78
b00mQQ

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Gaius Octavian wrote...

SupR G is either a sub-par intellectual or a troll.


If you want to see a troll, just look at yourself. Someone coming on the forums and being constructive isn't being a troll -- someone criticizing them for actually being intellectual and making an intellegent thread is a troll, thus, you.

#79
MassStorm

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I entirely subscribe what the OP stated,

#80
Razzoul-

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My main problems with DA2 isn't the story or the companions but the combat itself.
Maybe its just me, but enemies respawning in front of my face is not what I look for in a Bioware game. I wouldn't complain about it but EVERY fight does this, and almost every single fight seems the same.

#81
SnowHeart1

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Sabariel wrote...

Your post was doing so well until...

SupR G wrote...
especially PC elitists


Never a good start =]

I had the same reaction. Almost backed right out of the post but for some reason decided to keep reading. I was surprised that even though I disagreed with 90% of what he had to say, the rest of it was reasonable and lacking the personal attacks he somehow felt compelled to put in the first sentence. Weird.

#82
b00mQQ

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jones0901 wrote...

DA2 is a good game but origins is definitly not a fail. it is far superior to DA2 in every way except for the changes that invariably come between an original and sequal. bioware had some good ideas to make characters more individual, the armor being locked and the specializations of each character are good ideas, but in the end they were overdone. in DAO, each character could be helpful no matter what class/spec your warden took, but in DA2, you have Isabella if your a archer rogue, varric/sebastian if not, etc.
, while i agree that stories do not have to have world altering ramifications (BG1) case in point, Hawke's story is just not that strong. there is no storyline like the Urn of Sacred Ashes or the Deep Roads plot. the idea of Hawke's story could have been great, and is certainly good, but nowhere near as compelling as the wardens story. Even without the Archdemon, those plotlines were great.
lastly, thefighting style is fun and all, and i really hope they pull some aspects of it for DA3 but as a it stands in DA2, it is a simplification that really limits diversity in combat


Origins failed because there was no room left for a true sequel (just read the original posters complete post). Story-driven games are meant to be written in a way that it can be turned into a trilogy (see: Mass Effect). Dragon Age: Origins was written as one of those games where it's conceived as one of those stories you play through and what you see is the complete story. There's no possible way to follow up on the story told from the original game. You become a Grey Warden, slay the Archdemon, and the world is saved, and that's why Origins failed.

#83
Edli

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b00mQQ wrote...

Origins failed because there was no room left for a true sequel (just read the original posters complete post). Story-driven games are meant to be written in a way that it can be turned into a trilogy (see: Mass Effect). Dragon Age: Origins was written as one of those games where it's conceived as one of those stories you play through and what you see is the complete story. There's no possible way to follow up on the story told from the original game. You become a Grey Warden, slay the Archdemon, and the world is saved, and that's why Origins failed.


Since when every game needs to be a trilogy? I guess every game that doesn't end with a cliffhanger is a failure apparently. What kind of logic is that.

Modifié par Edli, 15 mars 2011 - 04:38 .


#84
augustburnt

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SupR G wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Your post was doing so well until...

SupR G wrote...
especially PC elitists


Never a good start =]


I played through DA:O on PC 4 times, and once on 360. I can call them out.


almost 1k hours between PC and xbox. Ill call you out. Go back under your bridge.

#85
stu117

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Vena_86 wrote...

Origins failed?!
It sold better than ME2

(spews beverage from nose) BWAHAHAHAAHAAAAA no..... it does not fail but ur numbers are mistaked (looks again) BWAHAHAHAHAAAA

#86
augustburnt

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stu117 wrote...

Vena_86 wrote...

Origins failed?!
It sold better than ME2

(spews beverage from nose) BWAHAHAHAAHAAAAA no..... it does not fail but ur numbers are mistaked (looks again) BWAHAHAHAHAAAA


I need to go check but I think overall sales for DAO were higher than that of ME2, I could be wrong though.

#87
Killa2k

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dont honestly knw about overall sales but on the 360 ME2 outsold origins within the first 10 weeks but not by much @ all. anyone who could clarify overall sales across all platforms is welcome to correct me....and i would in no way consider origins a failure. (360 figures were pretty easy to find tbh)

Modifié par Killa2k, 15 mars 2011 - 04:52 .


#88
Doveberry

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To OP:

I get what you're saying, but referring to displeased fans as "PC elitists" is just as silly as them referring to those who like the game as "Bioware fanbois". Though I, as a Bioware fangirl find the latter to be more insulting. It's a silly generalization, suggests that all Bioware fans must be men, and it is most often spelled in a childish way (some sort of failed attempt at profiling Bioware fans as childish, I suppose). At least "PC elitists" is just a silly generalization. Nevertheless, it is almost impossible to get your point across once you've insulted the people that disagree with you; the very people that you were directing your arguments towards. So don't do that, because I think that your post had a lot of substance. It will now be largely disregarded because of how you chose to start it off.

#89
Razzoul-

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(PC scores)
Metacritc score for DA is 91.
Metacritc score for DA2 is 84.

Is this enough proof that DA is better than DA2?

#90
derprimus

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SupR G wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers, especially PC elitists

etc etc


Nice trolling you have here. No, really. If I knew that bioware forums have such successfull trolls as you, dear sir, I would have signed up earlier :D

I beg you to continue!

#91
Davasar

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You know what the great part about this is?

It shows that Bioware is seeking to redefine the RPG genre into something that is actually an action game with cut scenes.

And that the newer fans are eating it up hook, line and sinker because they don't know any better.

When you have nothing good to compare such games to, of course this seems to be as good as it gets.

To the OP: I feel sorry for you. I demand more for my money rather then this DA2 tripe. If you had truly played an epic game, you would see DA2 for what it was.

Rehashed areas, terrible graphics and a rushed story line.

If you cant see that, then you sir are being obtuse.

#92
Foxhound2020

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SupR G wrote...

Gaius Octavian wrote...

SupR G is either a sub-par intellectual or a troll.


Obvious troll is obvious.



the troll got trolled and then called the troll a troll even tho he is the troll.

do you guys think your clever each time you use that worthless word?

#93
Everwarden

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 Did you enjoy giving that straw man a beating, OP? You did? Good.

My problem with the story in DA2 isn't that there was no epic evil to fight, but because the third act was ridiculous and removed all humanity and realism from the narrative just to force the ONE ending to happen. 

#94
Vollkeule

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yes it is a console game now. and i feel it every minute i play. if you like it... good. am no pc elitist but i definetly played better games. and da:o is one of it. bioware will likely focus on console development, given the sales, and i will buy fewer games from them. could we close the topic now?

#95
TileToad

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What I find difficult to comprehend is that ME2 was hailed as a big improvement over ME, while DA2 as a big let down over DA:O.
I have the exact opposite reaction to the two. ME2 was a big disappointment to me. It became more of a standard shooter than a RPG. Even STALKER seemed more of a RPG compared to it. DA2, on the other hand, actually benefited from most (not all) of the changes.
Hmm.. I guess I'm out of sync with the majority of modern gameplayers. lol!

Modifié par TileToad, 15 mars 2011 - 05:16 .


#96
Guest_Fandango_*

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I don’t know SupR G, I’m not against evolution but it’s my view changes should only really be made for the better. I loved ME1 and ME2, but it’s worth noting that changes made to the later were introduced in large part due to the shortcomings of the former (inventory mgmt, planet exploration etc). Is that really the case with DA2, or are we seeing the commercial success of ME2 exert undue influence on a completely separate franchise? It’s my view that DA2 borrows at least as much from ME2 as it does DA:O and it’s a great shame for those of us who thought there was plenty of room for both.

Take the dialogue wheel for example. I’m not against having a voiced protagonist in DA2 but it just isn’t handled all that well. Instead of taking that particular mechanic and improving upon it, DA2 inherits all of the old ME flaws and introduces one or two of its own! Ignoring the misleading paraphrasing for a moment, this new system holds your hand to the extent it actually gives you a visual steer for each response choice. Want to flirt with Merryl? Choose the dialogue option with the huge heart against it. Really? Now I realise that Mass Effect, with its Paragon\\Renegade mechanic, did something similar, but the presentation in DA2 really does lay the game mechanics bare in a way its predecessor didn’t. I disapprove.

As for the recycled environments; Bioware say compromise and I say disgrace. Heaven knows, the game is limited enough in its environmental scope already without having to resort to such blatant shortcuts. ECP himself has held his hands up in this regard, but its little consolation to those of us who have already purchased a truncated game at full price.

Whilst I agreed with those calling for a more lucid, dynamic combat system for DA2 I don’t mind admitting that I’m really struggling to appreciate the nuances with regards this latest offering. I find the new combat system to be a contradictory affair; on one hand it’s entirely dull (no great credit from me for the button mashing siege that constitutes 90% of combat gameplay) and on the other it’s a hideously flamboyant, triple backflipping extravaganza. In short, neither the mechanics nor the aesthetics are my bag; I find the former to be unchallenging and the later to be way too garish for my fancy.

The art style, with its clean lines and sharp edges looks decidedly low polly but character models are particularly well realised and the cutscene cinematics are certainly a step above Origins. General animations are vastly improved and I’m loving the Quinari redesign (the Dwarves really do look superb also). Characterisation is also strong and dialogue well written and delivered. Party banter too is brilliantly conceived and, despite early concerns, the voice acting thus far (with one exception) has proved to be top notch. It’s no doubt testament to the excellence of Origins and the good work done in DA2 that I’m left a little miffed at the distinct lack of opportunity to converse with ones party members.

One of my biggest grumbles has to do with what I perceive to be the needless limiting of player choice. Quite simply, not having the ability to equip ones party members is a massive downer for me. Managing inventory and optimising ones party composition does not a great RPG make but I’m one of those sad fellows that really enjoys doing so. Indeed, wandering around a world surrounded by vendors, picking up loot I don’t need brings to mind the original Mass Effect (and not in a good way).

Anyhoo, this is dragging on so I’ll finish off by saying that, whilst the main story line is pretty decent fare, my gaming hours thus far have largely been spent doing fetch quests for people I barely know, fighting wave after wave of trash mobs, spamming the same move over and over and over again and it isn’t fun. As such, DA2 represents a huge disappointment for me.

I’m not a PC gamer.

Modifié par Fandango9641, 15 mars 2011 - 05:28 .


#97
Mr. Gerbz

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People take sides way too quickly. I, for one, see both sides.

Is DA2 a great game? Definitely not. Although a lot of people who don't like RPG's and lots of customization, do think it's a great game.

Is DA2 a bad game? Definitely not. But a lot of Bioware fans feel 'betrayed', because we can hardly customize anything anymore, especially in comparison to Bioware's best games (think Baldur's Gate, ME1, KOTOR, DA:O, etc).

Lots of people are just pissed off that Bioware is caring more about money and producing a game each year, than making extremely great games like they used to.
If Bioware hadn't focussed on releasing a new DA game so soon, they would've made the game far more epic in scale, far more customization, plus the improvements we see now like better combat, instead of just improvements in certain areas and a severe downgrade in other areas (re-used instances for example).

#98
SupR G

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Razzoul- wrote...

(PC scores)
Metacritc score for DA is 91.
Metacritc score for DA2 is 84.

Is this enough proof that DA is better than DA2?


Believe it or not, I don't think DA:2 is better then Origins. My point is that DA:2 is a good game, and Origins failed to leave room for a sequel. When I heard about DA:2, I wondered what it could possibly be about... since Witch Hunt didn't leave much to the imagination. Nobody should be surprised that the story isn't as epic or sensational.

#99
Chromie

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ChillyBilly42 wrote...

Why do you think that the story is what ruined DA2, it was the hank and slashing, and the weird graphics



Weird graphics? Origins looks like crap and you know it. How is it a hack and slash? I right click one person for it to autoattack. I pause and play because I play on Nightmare maybe if you up the difficulty you mgiht actually use it.

#100
Davasar

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SupR G wrote...

But is it an improvement on DA:O? Absolutely.


Actually...you did say DA2 is better then DAO right here...in your first post.  Remember?