224 réponses à ce sujet

[augustburnt]

Please stop necroing this thread, SupR G is a troll with a low standards/expectations for his game. Please stop feeding the attention wh*re.

[misterdde]

Saerin wrote...

Dragon Age 2 is a good game. Dragon Age Origins was an amazing game. Really. how could anyone expect DA2 to be better than Origins? Accept their differences and you can enjoy both games.

you just said it. It's different. Not that i don't encourage this line quite the contrary. But compare to origin spirits, it's a large stepback. As an action RPG hack'N'slash orentied it's a good game. BUT it's definitly not fit to origin. 

Origin was an old school RPG designed to be a real love letter to all baldur's gates friend. da2 is a backstab to these people. But even so... I'm one of these people and I don't regret my 55€ at all. But this line of game should part of the dragon age serie and get it's own. 

[Lord Coake]

TileToad wrote...

What I find difficult to comprehend is that ME2 was hailed as a big improvement over ME, while DA2 as a big let down over DA:O.
I have the exact opposite reaction to the two. ME2 was a big disappointment to me. It became more of a standard shooter than a RPG. Even STALKER seemed more of a RPG compared to it. DA2, on the other hand, actually benefited from most (not all) of the changes.
Hmm.. I guess I'm out of sync with the majority of modern gameplayers. lol!

There is a reason ME2 is seen as the better game.  Mass Effect 1 was a massive RPG that got turned into a shooter, much to the distaste of actual RPG fans.  However, despite some pretty loud negativity about it, the game was by and large seen as a good game, even by the RPG/PC gamer crowd because we all thought "It's okay, we've still got Dragon Age.  Mass Effect is a good franchise to draw in the CoD crowd with."

Certainly, the negativeity towards ME2 was vocal, but it actually pretty tame compared to what was actually felt.  The existence of Dragon Age was a salve to the dissappointment, so ME2 was largely give a thumbs up, and Bioware maintained a good reserve of good will due to the DA franchise.

Then DA2 was announced and at first, there were loud hossanas at the continuation of a good, soid RPG line.  We all know how this is ending up.  Any and all goodwill is gone, what product loyalty from Bioware's RPG fanbase is gone, and all the hatred, negativity and vitriol that was kept quiet from ME2 being turned into another goddamed console rail shooter has exploded in Bioware's face with even more tossed in from the outright betrayal of it's oldest and most loyal fanbase, and with good reason.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 16 mars 2011 - 05:09 .

[CroGamer002]

augustburnt wrote...

Please stop necroing this thread, SupR G is a troll with a low standards/expectations for his game. Please stop feeding the attention wh*re.

How can you necro a 1 DAY OLD THREAD?!

[Maelora]

Agree with Autolycus.

DAO was an RPG, DA2 is an action game with RPG-lite elements attached.

There was a huge paradigm shift between the two; BW literally aimed this one at a different audience. There's room there for some serious disagreement for the fans of DAO - even before you take into consideration the errors (no auto-attack, recycled environments, lousy equip options, spawn battles, stupid dialogues, poor plot, no ending, etc) made in the actual game.

Modifié par Maelora, 16 mars 2011 - 06:21 .

[scottiemoneyas]

there r both good games man dragon age rocks

[Cobrawar]

SupR G wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers to so easily and aggressively turn against a popular developer when something doesn't go their way. You might call them names, hell I can think of a few, but really what's the point. Lemmings come and go.

Honestly, Dragon Age 2 is no innovation, it's really just implementing many of the streamlining changes that Mass Effect 2 improved on it's predecessor. So we can hardly call it revolutionary. But is it an improvement on DA:O? Absolutely. DA:O had a great story, almost too great, and barely left any room at all for a proper sequel. At least Mass Effect was written to be a trilogy.

A story doesn't need to end with the slaying of an Archdemon to be great. Dragon Age 2 isn't about saving the world, it's about Hawke and the events that surrounded his rise to become the Champion. Bioware has spoiled you QQbears into believing the only good story is one that involves some seemingly unstoppable supervillain, and now you can't settle for anything less.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

As for stats imbalance, just wait for a patch will you?

The simple fact of the matter here is, there is very little wrong with DA:2. It is a worthy successor, and fixes many of the issues DA:O had. Cherry picking little problems and annoyances, stating obvious changes you knew about for months, and then claiming all the fans hate DA:2 and that it failed is a great way to sound like an ignorant lemming. And before you continue your senseless ranting, keep in mind if they had made DA:O Part 2, there would be just as many, if not more people QQing.

Changes were made. Many, many of us love them. Deal with it and move on. DA:O is over and done with.

Edit: Yeah, I edited.

 Da2 failed and origins is still a better game. This idea  that da2 is better then origins is a complete farce and myth. All I have to say is GG on trying to sell a da3 after this mess of a game. you have no idea what you are talking about.

Modifié par Cobrawar, 16 mars 2011 - 06:31 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

SupR G wrote...
Honestly, Dragon Age 2 is no innovation, it's really just implementing many of the streamlining changes that Mass Effect 2 improved on it's predecessor. So we can hardly call it revolutionary. But is it an improvement on DA:O?

No.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

Ambients and enviroments in DA2 look like crap...like all atmosphere has been sucked out of them.
That said, I like the new qunari and the elves are....meh.

And yes, I can have it both ways. How about dissalowing specilizations or items that clearly go agaisnt companion personality, instead of removing most of the customization?

Wynne can't become a blood mage? No problem.
Wynne can't eqip a better mage robe? Problem.

[JaegerBane]

Lord Coake wrote...

There is a reason ME2 is seen as the better game.  Mass Effect 1 was a massive RPG that got turned into a shooter, much to the distaste of actual RPG fans.  However, despite some pretty loud negativity about it, the game was by and large seen as a good game, even by the RPG/PC gamer crowd because we all thought "It's okay, we've still got Dragon Age.  Mass Effect is a good franchise to draw in the CoD crowd with."

I don't think this kind of snobbery really does anyone any favours. Mass Effect is what it is - it was never some old-school RPG that got converted into a corridor shooter for morons. And frankly, I doubt I'm the only 'actual RPG fan' as you term them that's getting a little bit sick of being branded as 'part of the CoD crowd' purely for having the audacity of enjoying ME1. It was by an large seen as a good game because it was a good game, not because of any miscarriage of justice. This whole idea that Dragon Age was some sort of 'compensation' for not getting Baldur's Gate in space is pure nonsense dreamed up by the crusty old RPG farts. Dragon Age was going back to their roots, yes, but that doesn't somehow mean everything in the game has to work like it's 1996.

Then DA2 was announced and at first, there were loud hossanas at the continuation of a good, soid RPG line.  We all know how this is ending up.  Any and all goodwill is gone, what product loyalty from Bioware's RPG fanbase is gone, and all the hatred, negativity and vitriol that was kept quiet from ME2 being turned into another goddamed console rail shooter has exploded in Bioware's face with even more tossed in from the outright betrayal of it's oldest and most loyal fanbase, and with good reason.

If you're honestly going to describe ME2 as a 'console rail shooter' with a straight face then there's little point venturing off the RPG Codex. ME2 may have had it's faults and it may be many things, but branding it such a title is a bit like saying that Half Life was Wolfenstein with pretty graphics. It's so far off the mark that it's practically delusional. And more to the point, it misses the point of DA2's criticism entirely.

DA2 is getting flak because it wasn't the classic DA1 was. A lot of stuff was changed that wasn't asked for in the first place. In ME2's case, it didn't get *as much flak* because a lot of the changes were in areas that had been highlighted for improvement, rather than areas that Bioware just felt like changing for the lolz. That, and ME2 crucially kept the narrative and tone that it's predecessor had. DA2 made the mistake of going off too far in a different direction.

[nightlordv]

Pyrate_d wrote...

Another problem with DA2 is that the companion recruitment didn't make any sense to me. Varric immediately offering you a spot on the expedition is pushing it, but then him just saying "LET'S STIR UP SOME TROUBLE" and joining your group made no sense. The same goes for many of the other companions--I never got a real sense of why they wanted to help

this wasn't perfect in origins, but in general when you had the option to recruit someone you had a ton of dialogue available to question their decision/motivation (leliana is a good example of this). Even if there wasn't much control involved, it felt like there was.

Getting Sten out of the cage by threatening the head of the chantry and having Alistair whine about it was classic. No matter how many times I played through I always made that decision.

[moilami]

Autolycus wrote...

Mass Effect 1 was a massive RPG that got turned into a shooter, much to the distaste of actual RPG fans.

Ummm...ME1 was never an RPG to begin with, but much like DA2, it was a hybrid....which is why ME2 (critically) was acclaimed so much, because they got rid of the useless stuff and made the game better.

The whiners who say Me1 was an RPG are delusional, it was always an 'action' RPG....different game altogether.

Origins was a massive RPG, yet they turned DA2 into a hybrid....there is a difference there.

I agree with you very much. DA2 is a hybrid as is ME. However ME have action game side from proven concept: shooters. DA2 tried to take proven action game concept from WoW and it was a failure.

[moilami]

nightlordv wrote...

Pyrate_d wrote...

Another problem with DA2 is that the companion recruitment didn't make any sense to me. Varric immediately offering you a spot on the expedition is pushing it, but then him just saying "LET'S STIR UP SOME TROUBLE" and joining your group made no sense. The same goes for many of the other companions--I never got a real sense of why they wanted to help

this wasn't perfect in origins, but in general when you had the option to recruit someone you had a ton of dialogue available to question their decision/motivation (leliana is a good example of this). Even if there wasn't much control involved, it felt like there was.

Getting Sten out of the cage by threatening the head of the chantry and having Alistair whine about it was classic. No matter how many times I played through I always made that decision.

It was best done with Morrigan

[FellowerOfOdin]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

SupR G is either a sub-par intellectual or a troll.

...or both.

[Purgatious]

When you take an objective look at certain aspects of the game, you realise certain parts are rehashed, re-used constantly and a large percentage of the game is infact side quests. Nothing of terrible note happens before act 3 apart from finding the idol, of which its importance only becomes apparent in Act 3. The majority of people would view this as a negative, and in-effect it becomes obvious that corners were cut to save money and time. Given that origins had none of these problems, as do very few of Biowares games to date, you can conclude this work is sub-par for bioware due to time constraint, money and people. It is a fair conclusion based on facts compared to other facts.

The words bad and good to very little to help.

[Tirigon]

augustburnt wrote...

Please stop necroing this thread, SupR G is a troll with a low standards/expectations for his game. Please stop feeding the attention wh*re.

but I love necromancers

[Capeo]

Maelora wrote...

Agree with Autolycus.

DAO was an RPG, DA2 is an action game with RPG-lite elements attached.

There was a huge paradigm shift between the two; BW literally aimed this one at a different audience. There's room there for some serious disagreement for the fans of DAO - even before you take into consideration the errors (no auto-attack, recycled environments, lousy equip options, spawn battles, stupid dialogues, poor plot, no ending, etc) made in the actual game.

You realize that you can turn on auto attack in the options right?

To call DAO and RPG and DA2 an RPG lite is ridiculously ignorant.  Because you can't change your companions armor it's not an RPG?  That's senseless.  Because the inventory system is streamlined to be sensible and eliminate useless hours of game time scouring your gear to see what's worth keeping it's not an RPG?  Equally senseless.  Changing the combat so you can't idiotically and unrealistically place traps all over the place because you know where enemies are coming from before they even attack you or because the (now rote) tank tactics that dominate RPGs don't work as effectively makes it not an RPG?  No it doesn't.

The fact is there is nothing objective that makes this any less of an RPG than DAO.  It's all your (and everone else belly-aching up a storm) subjective opinion of what you wanted from DA2.  In my subjective view DA2 did away with the excess crap that "classic" RPGs had only as a limitation of what hardware was capable of.  We somehow now deify isometric views?  Really?  Give me a break.  We deify clunky inventory systems because "that's the way it used to be'?  We diefy text over spoken dialog?  Sorry, immersion wins out and a spoken protaganist creates far more immersion than a blank faced cypher.  

I grew up on the early D&D games going back to Heroes of the Lance on the 64 all the way through to today and I personally love DA2.  That's subjective.  What is objective is that if you consider all the best loved RPGs through the years, and look at what they actually offer in the way of gameplay, there is no way in hell you could actually call DA2 an RPG lite. 

[Pwnsaur]

I don't understand how anyone who has played DA:O, ME, JE, and KOTOR can play DA2 and not see the glaring lack of depth. No NPC interaction, no item desciptions, side quests with no meaning, conversation or feeling attatched to them, drastically less dialogue, less/no exploration, small recycled world with little variation, huge gaps in storytelling, cinematics where your character says something you didn't even choose, less skills, no non-combat related skills, no persuasion, no backstory, and one last time.... running from alley to alley, street to street, building to building and room to room with NO NPC's to talk to aside from the clearly marked quest givers?

Why is all of this okay? Please.. Go play KOTOR and reassess this experience. It has been stripped of content, love, care, and most of all... soul...

[moilami]

Capeo wrote...

Maelora wrote...

Agree with Autolycus.

DAO was an RPG, DA2 is an action game with RPG-lite elements attached.

There was a huge paradigm shift between the two; BW literally aimed this one at a different audience. There's room there for some serious disagreement for the fans of DAO - even before you take into consideration the errors (no auto-attack, recycled environments, lousy equip options, spawn battles, stupid dialogues, poor plot, no ending, etc) made in the actual game.

You realize that you can turn on auto attack in the options right?

To call DAO and RPG and DA2 an RPG lite is ridiculously ignorant.  Because you can't change your companions armor it's not an RPG?  That's senseless.  Because the inventory system is streamlined to be sensible and eliminate useless hours of game time scouring your gear to see what's worth keeping it's not an RPG?  Equally senseless.  Changing the combat so you can't idiotically and unrealistically place traps all over the place because you know where enemies are coming from before they even attack you or because the (now rote) tank tactics that dominate RPGs don't work as effectively makes it not an RPG?  No it doesn't.

The fact is there is nothing objective that makes this any less of an RPG than DAO.  It's all your (and everone else belly-aching up a storm) subjective opinion of what you wanted from DA2.  In my subjective view DA2 did away with the excess crap that "classic" RPGs had only as a limitation of what hardware was capable of.  We somehow now deify isometric views?  Really?  Give me a break.  We deify clunky inventory systems because "that's the way it used to be'?  We diefy text over spoken dialog?  Sorry, immersion wins out and a spoken protaganist creates far more immersion than a blank faced cypher.  

I grew up on the early D&D games going back to Heroes of the Lance on the 64 all the way through to today and I personally love DA2.  That's subjective.  What is objective is that if you consider all the best loved RPGs through the years, and look at what they actually offer in the way of gameplay, there is no way in hell you could actually call DA2 an RPG lite. 

DA2 is not an RPG. Period.

[Soilborn88]

It's obvious Bioware had to take shortcuts with DA2 and so many people praise it.

Playing in the same 5 maps over and over, doing the same redundant quests over and over, while mauling away at mobs and mobs of enemies with out a single thought of strategy in mind - makes this game a worthy successor?

Hell I just named a few things wrong with this game, when there is alot more. If you think this game is a worthy sucessor when it's INCOMPLETE by far, you obviously have terrible taste in video games and obviously will continue to reward companies for developing bad games.

[Ryvack]

SupR G wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers to so easily and aggressively turn against a popular developer when something doesn't go their way. You might call them names, hell I can think of a few, but really what's the point. Lemmings come and go.

Honestly, Dragon Age 2 is no innovation, it's really just implementing many of the streamlining changes that Mass Effect 2 improved on it's predecessor. So we can hardly call it revolutionary. But is it an improvement on DA:O? Absolutely. DA:O had a great story, almost too great, and barely left any room at all for a proper sequel. At least Mass Effect was written to be a trilogy.


A story doesn't need to end with the slaying of an Archdemon to be great. Dragon Age 2 isn't about saving the world, it's about Hawke and the events that surrounded his rise to become the Champion. Bioware has spoiled you QQbears into believing the only good story is one that involves some seemingly unstoppable supervillain, and now you can't settle for anything less.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

As for stats imbalance, just wait for a patch will you?

The simple fact of the matter here is, there is very little wrong with DA:2. It is a worthy successor, and fixes many of the issues DA:O had. Cherry picking little problems and annoyances, stating obvious changes you knew about for months, and then claiming all the fans hate DA:2 and that it failed is a great way to sound like an ignorant lemming. And before you continue your senseless ranting, keep in mind if they had made DA:O Part 2, there would be just as many, if not more people QQing.

Changes were made. Many, many of us love them. Deal with it and move on. DA:O is over and done with.

Edit: Yeah, I edited.

^^this is exactly how I feel about DA2...kudos to OP...well written.

[neppakyo]

I think its proven Origins was such a success due to the horrendous negative feedback about DA2.

A lot of people don't know what a RPG is and like ME2 clones.

[Boradam]

I don't see how this is an ME2 clone, I hated ME2 so much but yet I somehow love this game.

Oooo~ I must have bad taste in games!

[cipher86]

The biggest crime DA2 commits is the vast amount of copy-pasting they did. I understand doing some to save time, but they not only recycled areas like crazy, but a LOT of music from DA:O made it into DA2. ME2 used a few tracks from ME1 but had a TON of new tracks as well, DA2 is the opposite.

Aside from that I think this game is a lot better than Origins. The characters are more defined, love it or hate it. The story isn't nearly as epic as Origins but I'm also glad to have a different theme for once (I'm not playing an unknown who takes down an unspeakable evil because I am the chosen one/part of an elite group... again). If they didn't do so much recycling this game would be a LOT more fun, even with the "Another Wave" garbage. Repetition is not fun when it's obvious repetition, and there is no way to copy-paste artfully, regardless of what Mike Laidlaw might think.