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Why Dragon Age 2 is GOOD (and why Origins failed)


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#176
Psython

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cipher86 wrote...

The biggest crime DA2 commits is the vast amount of copy-pasting they did. I understand doing some to save time, but they not only recycled areas like crazy, but a LOT of music from DA:O made it into DA2. ME2 used a few tracks from ME1 but had a TON of new tracks as well, DA2 is the opposite.

Aside from that I think this game is a lot better than Origins. The characters are more defined, love it or hate it. The story isn't nearly as epic as Origins but I'm also glad to have a different theme for once (I'm not playing an unknown who takes down an unspeakable evil because I am the chosen one/part of an elite group... again). If they didn't do so much recycling this game would be a LOT more fun, even with the "Another Wave" garbage. Repetition is not fun when it's obvious repetition, and there is no way to copy-paste artfully, regardless of what Mike Laidlaw might think.


How exactly are the characters more defined in DA2? You get a couple of 2 minute conversations at predetermined interals with each and thats it basically. There is no sense of them being dynamic or having much of a personality. In DAO the characters were dynamic, had about 3-4 times as much dialog and would tell you their history. In DA2, they basically have the same personality throughout the entire game and never even give you quests. Also, the friendship/rivalry is a nice idea but never really seems to do much besides get you that one ability. 

Lets face it, what other RPG has less RPG features than DA2? I cant even think of one. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were sucessful hybrid games that did not feel like such a forced awkward mix of different ideas. People are upset because DAO was a great modernized RPG and DA2 is a mediocre action/rpg hybrid that fails to improve upon anything in DAO.  

#177
MerchantGOL

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More Dialoge docent mean more defined characters

the DA:O Companions are Shallow, U can just Go "Here Have some Whine change your World view to suite me"

In Da2 its not that simple, u actually interact with them,Less is more with these companions, They are not Defined by you, they will stick to who they are but u can still change them in a more natural way

#178
wolvklawz

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SupR G wrote...

It's pretty common for gamers to so easily and aggressively turn against a popular developer when something doesn't go their way. You might call them names, hell I can think of a few, but really what's the point. Lemmings come and go.

Honestly, Dragon Age 2 is no innovation, it's really just implementing many of the streamlining changes that Mass Effect 2 improved on it's predecessor. So we can hardly call it revolutionary. But is it an improvement on DA:O? Absolutely. DA:O had a great story, almost too great, and barely left any room at all for a proper sequel. At least Mass Effect was written to be a trilogy.

A story doesn't need to end with the slaying of an Archdemon to be great. Dragon Age 2 isn't about saving the world, it's about Hawke and the events that surrounded his rise to become the Champion. Bioware has spoiled you QQbears into believing the only good story is one that involves some seemingly unstoppable supervillain, and now you can't settle for anything less.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed. Companions feels like actual people instead of tools for Hawke to use. They have their own unique armors and you can't force them to be something outside their character. For example, making Wynne into a Blood Mage Arcane Warrior with plate armor in DA:O. It made no sense. Complain about freedom of control all you want, but then don't complain the character's don't add up. You can't have it both ways.

As for stats imbalance, just wait for a patch will you?

The simple fact of the matter here is, there is very little wrong with DA:2. It is a worthy successor, and fixes many of the issues DA:O had. Cherry picking little problems and annoyances, stating obvious changes you knew about for months, and then claiming all the fans hate DA:2 and that it failed is a great way to sound like an ignorant lemming. And before you continue your senseless ranting, keep in mind if they had made DA:O Part 2, there would be just as many, if not more people QQing.

Changes were made. Many, many of us love them. Deal with it and move on. DA:O is over and done with.

Edit: Yeah, I edited.




Yes and no.  There are a few things that really should have been done better.  The game was short.  Not only short (were talking do everything you can in an RPG in a few days and that should never be said for an RPG), but its also on speed.  Which doesn't help the "short" aspect.  Combine that with the same area, same maps, no life in the city (yet the whole game takes place in a city), these are all things that should have been done away with and add another year on the development cycle.  The game is good, I won't bash it, not here for hate and enjoy playing it.  But for a good RPG, I literally expect to get lost in my character development.  I expect to get side tracked and explore the land.  I expect to have to scour the internet looking for hidden treasures and quests.  DA II hit every "as expected" nail for me.  I knew where to find the treasure, I knew how to work my way through all the quests.  There was no surprise, no "sucked away" dying to play this game feel spending hours playing with equipment, stats, just exploring.  That for me is major when it comes to a RPG.  

DA II was good yes, especially the combat as I enjoyed the combat more.  But in the end to me it felt like a really good expansion pack or DLC for something bigger.  The game feels.....just like I said, it would be what I would consider a good or decent 1200 point expansion pack for an already epic RPG I own.  But DA II did some things right.  Course a 6 pack of beer does a few things right, except when you quickly drink all 6 and find yourself wishing you bought the 24 pack...which for me DA II feels just like that..a 6 pack of beer.  It should have been a 24 pack....

#179
Euno17

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SupR G wrote...

DA:O had a great story, almost too great, and barely left any room at all for a proper sequel.


LOL! 

So . . . . they did SO GOOD with DA: O, that we shouldn't expect them to continue making great games? 

Gotcha.

I should use that as a sig. Seriously - it's THAT horrible of an 'excuse' that I should forever cast it as my sig.

Why say anything else SupR? That is your entire arguement in a nut-shell.

I guess in the future we should expect Bioware to make 'okay' games, because how could they 'ever' top DA: O? Why even try right;).

#180
TestUserSS7x

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SupR G wrote...
And if an 8.0-8.5 average rating makes it the "worst game Bioware has ever made", then you have truly high standards indeed.


Bioware employees are rating up the game.  Did you miss the articles they were caught red handed in their embarassing action? This game had no heart in it.  Took the "role playing" out of RPG.  Run around looking at the mini map all day and no NPC to talk to.  One liner everywhere.  Companion conversations were nowhere the level of DAO.  No random encounters to break up the game pace a little.  This game is full of negatives which outweigh any good it had in it.  Shiny beautiful graphics is not enough which is all you seem to care about.

#181
Big_Choppa

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Euno17 wrote...

I guess in the future we should expect Bioware to make 'okay' games, because how could they 'ever' top DA: O? Why even try right;).


Oh, I think they can top DA:O and they really should. As amazing as it is, they can always improve on something as epic as it.

#182
slimgrin

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The fanboys sure crept out of their hiding places after DA2 released. A veritable army is on the defense.

#183
Kamuii

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both games have their strengths and weaknesses. origins had companion conversations, full companion equipment, and dual wielding. DA2 has a voiced main character, and streamlined combat. personally i think both games are real good. yes some features from DA:O would be nice in DA2 but hey there are things in DA2 that i wish they would have done for DA:O. Also give it time DA2 has only been out for a short time so far. once they give us more dlc and the toolkit DA2 will more than likely become better that DA:O.

#184
True Zarken

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It always nice to read something positive :)

#185
mdugger12

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I don't know, maybe I'm not looking deep enough but I think DA II is great.

Honestly, before DA:O came out I had no interest in any RPGs whatsoever so I might not have enough of a history playing the genre to notice some of finer details or the misses that some of you guys point out. But maybe I didn't go into DA II with the same expectations alot of you guys had either. I'm having a blast playing DA II. I love that the action is more hands on. I love the way I got sucked in to the tale of Hawke. I even love how Kirkwall really feels like somewhere your character lives and you become familiar. It's all aces in my book.

I'm not posting to argue down anyone that didn't care for the game or tell somebody that they're wrong because they didn't have the same experience I did. Whatever reason you didn't like it should very well be voiced so maybe those things will be fixed in the future. Sorry you wasted $60. I just enjoy the game for what it is. LOL I guess if it's dumbed down I'm lucky I'm not smart enough to know any better.

#186
neppakyo

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The story didn't grip you like DA:O did imho. DA2 would be a good game if it didn't have dragon age in the title.

We DA:O fans were expecting something with a soul, a heart.. where the story brings you in
and charges you emotionally. I never got that connection with DA2, the story was a good idea, but not very well written or put together. The useless side quests that you pretty much have to do to continue the story are quite mind numbing... don't get me started with anders.. I wish DA2 had the option like DA:O's Zev. Untie him or cut his throat.. I would so stab anders in the face with a spork.

Maybe as others have said if they had another year to work on it, it wouldn't be such a sub-par game.

#187
Persephone

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TestUserSS7x wrote...

SupR G wrote...
And if an 8.0-8.5 average rating makes it the "worst game Bioware has ever made", then you have truly high standards indeed.


Bioware employees are rating up the game.  Did you miss the articles they were caught red handed in their embarassing action? This game had no heart in it.  Took the "role playing" out of RPG.  Run around looking at the mini map all day and no NPC to talk to.  One liner everywhere.  Companion conversations were nowhere the level of DAO.  No random encounters to break up the game pace a little.  This game is full of negatives which outweigh any good it had in it.  Shiny beautiful graphics is not enough which is all you seem to care about.


Oh PLEASE, you are exaggerating. A rumor about ONE employee writing a good review versus hundreds of copied and pasted hater reviews? Where's the balance?

#188
Persephone

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slimgrin wrote...

The fanboys sure crept out of their hiding places after DA2 released. A veritable army is on the defense.


And why not? Why should those who love the game be bullied into silence by haters? 

#189
Schneidend

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Maker's breath. Neither game failed, end of story.

TestUserSS7x wrote...


Bioware employees are rating up the game.  Did you miss the articles they were caught red handed in their embarassing action?


Performing a handful of Google searches doesn't constitute "catching." None of those articles can be verified.

Modifié par Schneidend, 17 mars 2011 - 05:10 .


#190
neppakyo

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http://videogamewrit...discontent-4936

I like this. One bit summed it up for me (and the pics were funny)

The game played like a to-do list rather than an actual RPG. lol

#191
JamieCOTC

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I liked the story of Hawke and the political intrigue quite a bit. I think given more time the game could have been streamlined and not alienated so many old school rpg fans. The sin of this game is that it was (or at least felt) very rushed. Except the time frame, it took me 45 hours to finish the game on my first run, the game feels more like an expansion that a full sequel. It's a shame, really. I'll give BW credit that they made a great PC out of Hawke, connected the dots of the story in a most unorthodox way and made the most personal story I've played since The Longest Journey. Everything else, however, is a shadow of its predecessor. DA:O 9 / DA2 7.5

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 17 mars 2011 - 05:43 .


#192
Persephone

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JamieCOTC wrote...

I liked the story of Hawke and the political intrigue quite a bit. I think given more time the game could have been streamlined and not alienated so many old school rpg fans. The sin of this game is that it was (or at least felt) very rushed. Except the time frame, it took me 45 hours to finish the game on my first run, the game feels more like an expansion that a full sequel. It's a shame, really. I'll give BW credit that they made a great PC out of Hawke, connected the dots of the story in a most unorthodox way and made the most personal story I've played since The Longest Journey. Everything else, however, is a shadow of its predecessor. DA:O 9 / DA2 7.5


Well, while I'd rate DA2 higher than DAO, it's my hope that patches, Mods, DLC and an expansion will make this diamond in the rough glitter as it should. :)

#193
MerchantGOL

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DAO:8
DA2:8.5

IMO

Allot of people forget how much **** DAO got originally

#194
Balerion84

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SupR G wrote...

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor.

Are you talking about the copy/paste dungeons or the corridor like enviroments?


SupR G wrote...

Qunari and Elves have a defined look, 

This is one thing I don't understand. How can you totally change a race design in the middle of a story? Someone explain this to me in case I missed something in DA:O. Especially the Qunari. It's like humans growing 2nd pair of arms in the span of a year. The elves are fine, more defined, but the new Qunari look like a totally different race. I actually had to check Sten's race to make sure when I encountered the DA2 qunaris.
Sure, the new qunari look great, but you can't just change their look in the middle becuase you changed your mind. Imagine reading the Two Towers to find out that hobbits are actually not so small, but half of their population is 2m tall. :blink:

Modifié par Balerion84, 17 mars 2011 - 09:36 .


#195
olalag

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I dont know much EA pays ppl like for writting such a bull ****. DA2 is an utter disaster and i dont even have to compare it to origins. It is not even comperable to Fable. At lest there they didnt do copy paste locations copy paste characters and missions. You have to be blind and deaf to say that DA2 is better than origins.

#196
Persephone

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olalag wrote...

I dont know much EA pays ppl like for writting such a bull ****. DA2 is an utter disaster and i dont even have to compare it to origins. It is not even comperable to Fable. At lest there they didnt do copy paste locations copy paste characters and missions. You have to be blind and deaf to say that DA2 is better than origins.


Well, isn't that precious. And you are murdering the English language, dearie.

#197
Balerion84

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Persephone wrote...

olalag wrote...

I dont know much EA pays ppl like for writting such a bull ****. DA2 is an utter disaster and i dont even have to compare it to origins. It is not even comperable to Fable. At lest there they didnt do copy paste locations copy paste characters and missions. You have to be blind and deaf to say that DA2 is better than origins.


Well, isn't that precious. And you are murdering the English language, dearie.

Oh come on, his english isn't so bad, especially considering this is an internet forum. Also, attacking someone's english on the internet is usually a sign of a lack of arguments. It's fine if that person writes like a total idiot, but in this case it looks like a desperate attempt from you. Surely you don't want to look desperate, do you? ^_^

Modifié par Balerion84, 17 mars 2011 - 10:22 .


#198
Dr. Impossible

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SupR G wrote...

A story doesn't need to end with the slaying of an Archdemon to be great. Dragon Age 2 isn't about saving the world, it's about Hawke and the events that surrounded his rise to become the Champion. Bioware has spoiled you QQbears into believing the only good story is one that involves some seemingly unstoppable supervillain, and now you can't settle for anything less.

Pretty sure this isn't the reason why the game is so heavily criticized. New Vegas isn't about stopping a supervillain or saving the world, and the story was very positively received.

So story aside, Dragon Age 2 redesigned Thedas with far more imagination then it's predecessor. Qunari and Elves have a defined look, Flemeth looks spectacular, armor and clothing looks amazing and more detailed.

Based on all the video and screenshots I've seen, DA2 looks mind-numbingly boring and nondescript, and the tech isn't great either.

As for stats imbalance, just wait for a patch will you?

This is not how games are reviewed.

#199
moilami

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Boradam wrote...

I don't see how this is an ME2 clone, I hated ME2 so much but yet I somehow love this game.

Oooo~ I must have bad taste in games!


y

There is a legendary splatter movie called Bad Taste, which by the way happen to be masterpiece. Tastefully and intelligently bad taste. 

DA2 on the other hand is more like Plan 9 From Outer Space classic lol. So bad.

#200
Balerion84

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moilami wrote...

Boradam wrote...

I don't see how this is an ME2 clone, I hated ME2 so much but yet I somehow love this game.

Oooo~ I must have bad taste in games!


y

There is a legendary splatter movie called Bad Taste, which by the way happen to be masterpiece. Tastefully and intelligently bad taste. 

DA2 on the other hand is more like Plan 9 From Outer Space classic lol. So bad.

Not really. While Plan 9 From Outer Space was so bad it became great, DA2 is kind of, mmm, average. Not great to be a classic, not bad enough to be a classic.