169 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Myounage wrote...

Origins had Zevran and Leliana, if you remember.

Indeed it did, but this is the first game where every romance is available to either gender. Yay BioWare

I find it kinda... odd.  Just from a writing aspect, mind you.  I'm more concerned with the character and whether it makes sense for that character to be ******- or bisexual.  As opposed to a collection of characters whose sexuality is left open to whatever is most convenient to the played protagonist.  "Conviently bi". 

And of course this is where I get flamed for saying it... proceed.

[Linksicle]

yeah, if anything i loved how they finally allowed you to pursue anyone you wanted, save for 2 party members. even if some of the romances were horribly written. hopefully my maleshep can finally knock boots with garrus.

[AngelicMachinery]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Myounage wrote...

Origins had Zevran and Leliana, if you remember.

Indeed it did, but this is the first game where every romance is available to either gender. Yay BioWare

I find it kinda... odd.  Just from a writing aspect, mind you.  I'm more concerned with the character and whether it makes sense for that character to be ******- or bisexual.  As opposed to a collection of characters whose sexuality is left open to whatever is most convenient to the played protagonist.  "Conviently bi". 

And of course this is where I get flamed for saying it... proceed.

I have a question, what is your criteria for sexuality "Making sense."

[Cadaveth]

Hah, way to go. You got your thread into RPGcodex

http://rpgcodex.net/...pic.php?t=57017

[serthorn]

The game is progressive all right. Before DA2 the whole crpg genre was standing on the edge of the abyss, but DA2 made a  huge step forward...

[vhatever]

How about giving me freaking useable camera on the PC version instead of a Anders hitting on me every other adventure we go on? Is that too much to ask? This is exactly what is BS. You cannot even lauch the game properly and yet you waste dev time wiith this garbage. Whether or not you have different teams of people working on different things I don't care. What I do care about is I have no workable camera which I do want, and a bunch of useless gay content I couldn't care less about.

Doesn't surprise me bioware is reaping the whirlwind on this one with many reviewers. Priorities-- get them straight.

Modifié par vhatever, 15 mars 2011 - 08:16 .

[Eurhetemec]

I too would like to commend DA2 for being progressive in both giving a fairly decent selection of romance options to both genders and most sexualities. Whilst I didn't find any of them particularly attractive myself (why no Aveline :_( ), it was definitely a step in the right direction, in that it avoids wasted content and gives people opportunities. More or less the opposite of the ME2 approach, too, where we had to listen to ridiculous nonsense from various respected Bioware people on how MShepard just isn't gay even though they wrote him a gay romance and FShepard who has exactly the same lines and same personality can be. I mean, come on, there's explaining decisions and insulting our intelligence, and the commentary on ME2 definitely fell into the latter category.

[wrdnshprd]

i can appreciate your viewpoint OP, but for me, i dont like it because, at least this time around, its a bit more forward then i am comfortable with.

[Deified Data]

OP, I can't disagree with your sentiment. The more freedom they allow the player, the better. Giving credit where credit is due.

[Gotholhorakh]

When I saw people raising all these concerns, I was terribly worried that homosexuality might not be adequately represented in the game.

Turns out they're just complaining about the game and the gameplay and the animations and the combat and stuff. *PHEW*! 

[Soundsystem]

Irxy wrote...

Anyway, gays are mainstream these days, if the devs want to be progressive, they should include some trannies in DA3 - and not spoil it until the final love scene.

If you want them to be progressive maybe you shouldn't demand it by using slurs. Tranny is a slur towards transgendered and transexual people. Please try not to use it in the future.

[Agamo45]

 That's if you call promoting a perversion "progressive". Whatever, I'll forgive Bioware, at least they are not shoving it into my face, and they give me the option to tell the ****** characters to shove it where the sun don't shine. And no tranny freaks, at least not yet.

Modifié par Agamo45, 15 mars 2011 - 09:24 .

[cofcof]

maybe in dragon age 3 we can have dwarf romance option cause i wanna sex some dwarfs

also marbari romance option, i know you can do it bioware

[Gotholhorakh]

If you want them to be progressive maybe you shouldn't demand it by using slurs. Tranny is a slur towards transgendered and transexual people. Please try not to use it in the future.

No it isn't, but that statement is presumptuous on at least 3 levels

(speaking on behalf of trannies as some sort of group who are "collectively" in favour of policing what people say and unable to defend themselves without your help is definitely a slur, nobody wants the word police on their side ;p)

[BiowarEA]

I'm glad to see Bioware paying attention to what's really important in an RPG: Social commentary and engineering. It's what makes role-playing classics like Mass Effect 2 the flawless gems that they are.

[MaximusPhoenix]

Cadaveth wrote...

Hah, way to go. You got your thread into RPGcodex

http://rpgcodex.net/...pic.php?t=57017

Damn, thx for pointing that out to me, would never have found that ) Need to take a look at that site more later tonight.

[Soundsystem]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

If you want them to be progressive maybe you shouldn't demand it by using slurs. Tranny is a slur towards transgendered and transexual people. Please try not to use it in the future.

No it isn't, but that statement is presumptuous on at least 3 levels

(speaking on behalf of trannies as some sort of group who are "collectively" in favour of policing what people say and unable to defend themselves without your help is definitely a slur, nobody wants the word police on their side ;p)

I never said all trans* people are against it. Some reclaim it, but that is a personal thing.

Tranny is a slur in the same way that **** or ****** or an racial slur is. There is a difference between word police and asking for a slur not to be used.  Trans* people are able to stand up for themselves, but that doesn't mean I must stay silent when a slur is used. I would expect anyone to do the same in regards to slurs, especially on a topic discussing progressiveness.

[Gotholhorakh]

Soundsystem wrote...
I never said all trans* people are against it. Some reclaim it, but that is a personal thing.

Tranny is a slur in the same way that **** or ****** or an racial slur is. There is a difference between word police and asking for a slur not to be used.  Trans* people are able to stand up for themselves, but that doesn't mean I must stay silent when a slur is used. I would expect anyone to do the same in regards to slurs, especially on a topic discussing progressiveness.

Well, you should know that not everybody appreciates the act, whether there is misguided goodness behind it or not.

Every time you jump in and reprimand someone for their choice of words when they didn't mean any harm at all, you stand a chance of creating resentment. People should resent it. It's rude control-freakery.

It's patronising. and it's suggestive of latent racism/ sexism /homophobia/ etc. to assume all members of these groups agree with what you're doing (because self-interest trumps any kind of personal principles when you're a lowly minority amirite?), and all need defending by you.

For my part, I just think "who on Earth do you think you are?" when some "well meaning" person leaps to my defence to police other people's words. I don't know you, I don't need you to defend me, I don't want What I Am
associated in people's minds with some sort of low-level repression, which you are busy doing.

If you stop and think about how people outside your head perceive it, you know I'm right.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 16 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[asaiasai]

MaximusPhoenix wrote...

I would like to first start off by commending Bioware for being socially progressive in DAO and DA2, and having the balls to provide the option of pursuing a gay/bi relationship if they choose. I cannot recall off the bat in the past couple years if there have been any other gaming studios doing this?

Apparently, from what I've read the past couple days in this forum, a select few individuals seem to be so damn offended that there is even an option to romance someone of the same sex, particularly if it's M/M, but are all for F/F. No one is forcing you to pick either side. You don't even have to choose the heart option if you don't want.
    Also, to those that say it is gross or not "right" or whatever to have a companion even try to attempt to flirt with your same sex Hawke need to relax and realize it is just a game. The worst is when someone posts and says that is wrong and should not be there but are fine with a someone of the opposite sex flirting with them.
   
There seems to be so much double standards with people here to the point where it is just silly....want something for themselves but also demand another group of human beings be excluded from those wants and desires....I'm a male and gay, and if a female comes up to me, whether it's in game or RL and and god forbid gives me a COMPLIMENT, I am going to be flattered and say not interested, not tell her to F*** off and say she is nasty and demand that no women should be allowed to approch me.
    Seriously, with the comments made here sometimes over something so trivial, I feel like we should be back in **** war times where people need to wear a patch or something on their clothes, not to state their religion, but their sexual orientation.

Anyways, I am starting to drift away from what I originally wanted to say. Again, thank you Bioware for having the balls to make a game appeal to EVERYONE. Please keep this up. I know myself and a huge chuck of other gamers appreciate this in the Dragon Age series. Please do not cave into backwards demands from others in future DA games. I am saying this as a proud  Canadian, and it is the least I would expect from an awesome Canadian company:bandit:

I too applaud the strength that Bioware has shown in allowing gay/bi relationships in DA2. I have been a harsh critic as of late concerning DA2 to the point i cancelled my pre order 4 hours after playing the demo. I have said time and again that this was a decision that i did not take lightly. The decision to cancel my pre order was the only way i could speak in the only language corporation understand. I was sad when i cancelled it and i have tried to make it known that as a supporter of the gay/bi romances this was NOT the reason. Not that any of it matters to a company as big as Bioware or the obtuse servants of the anti christ over at EA, but i am hoping that this choice is not the one blamed if DA2 tanks. Props Bioware for this but we still have other issues to discuss.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 16 mars 2011 - 08:57 .

[Nightfish103]

You know, personally I have no problem with same sex relationships or bisexuals or anything else as long as it's consensual. What I do have a problem with is every guy in DA2 hitting on my male Hawke and being mortally offended when I'm like "Dude, sorry, I don't swing that way" as gently as possible. Seriously, do gay people start hating me because I'm not gay? This is not my experience... It's like

Me: "Hey Anders, you're a swell guy, but I don't like you that way. Also, we met 5 minutes ago".
Anders: "Boooohooohooo, I haaate you now! Rivalry +20"

Or something like that. Does this happen outside of badly written daily soaps?

[Gotholhorakh]

Nightfish103 wrote...

You know, personally I have no problem with same sex relationships or bisexuals or anything else as long as it's consensual. What I do have a problem with is every guy in DA2 hitting on my male Hawke and being mortally offended when I'm like "Dude, sorry, I don't swing that way" as gently as possible. Seriously, do gay people start hating me because I'm not gay? This is not my experience... It's like

Me: "Hey Anders, you're a swell guy, but I don't like you that way. Also, we met 5 minutes ago".
Anders: "Boooohooohooo, I haaate you now! Rivalry +20"

Or something like that. Does this happen outside of badly written daily soaps?

Ahaha, possibly more than you think

Still, the romance options being open is awesome.

More choice in RPGs is pretty much a good thing.

[robotnist]

MaximusPhoenix wrote...

I would like to first start off by commending Bioware for being socially progressive in DAO and DA2, and having the balls to provide the option of pursuing a gay/bi relationship if they choose. I cannot recall off the bat in the past couple years if there have been any other gaming studios doing this?

Apparently, from what I've read the past couple days in this forum, a select few individuals seem to be so damn offended that there is even an option to romance someone of the same sex, particularly if it's M/M, but are all for F/F. No one is forcing you to pick either side. You don't even have to choose the heart option if you don't want.
    Also, to those that say it is gross or not "right" or whatever to have a companion even try to attempt to flirt with your same sex Hawke need to relax and realize it is just a game. The worst is when someone posts and says that is wrong and should not be there but are fine with a someone of the opposite sex flirting with them.
   
There seems to be so much double standards with people here to the point where it is just silly....want something for themselves but also demand another group of human beings be excluded from those wants and desires....I'm a male and gay, and if a female comes up to me, whether it's in game or RL and and god forbid gives me a COMPLIMENT, I am going to be flattered and say not interested, not tell her to F*** off and say she is nasty and demand that no women should be allowed to approch me.
    Seriously, with the comments made here sometimes over something so trivial, I feel like we should be back in **** war times where people need to wear a patch or something on their clothes, not to state their religion, but their sexual orientation.

Anyways, I am starting to drift away from what I originally wanted to say. Again, thank you Bioware for having the balls to make a game appeal to EVERYONE. Please keep this up. I know myself and a huge chuck of other gamers appreciate this in the Dragon Age series. Please do not cave into backwards demands from others in future DA games. I am saying this as a proud  Canadian, and it is the least I would expect from an awesome Canadian company:bandit:

right on. i wonder if all the loudmouths who "hate" the game arent religious zealots...  DA2 is incredible.

[MaximusPhoenix]

Nightfish103 wrote...

You know, personally I have no problem with same sex relationships or bisexuals or anything else as long as it's consensual. What I do have a problem with is every guy in DA2 hitting on my male Hawke and being mortally offended when I'm like "Dude, sorry, I don't swing that way" as gently as possible. Seriously, do gay people start hating me because I'm not gay? This is not my experience... It's like

Me: "Hey Anders, you're a swell guy, but I don't like you that way. Also, we met 5 minutes ago".
Anders: "Boooohooohooo, I haaate you now! Rivalry +20"

Or something like that. Does this happen outside of badly written daily soaps?

Yes, I see your point there. Perhaps they should have just left it at no friendship or rivalry points to begin with, but then if you got no friendship points for getting into a relationship(with anyone), that does not seem to make sense either.

Honestly from my 1st gameplay, I don't remember Fenris or Varric hitting on me at all. Must be due to what options you pick....all I remember is Isabella being a big s**t for me over and over, even after I was with Anders.
    I think it was pretty balanced overall, in terms of who hits on who, and not so much as just guys hitting on straight guys or girls hitting on gay guys.

There seems to be both, and as I said somewhere else in this thread, if people complain the romances are too forward and in your face, they should be aware it is not just one-sided(as ppl complain there is too much ****** stuff going on). It's not that there is too much in your face homosexuality, it's the fact that Bioware made DA2 appeal to all audiences for any kind of romance.

[philbo1965uk]

PMSFL at OP

Progresssssive !

[MaximusPhoenix]

asaiasai wrote...

MaximusPhoenix wrote...

I would like to first start off by commending Bioware for being socially progressive in DAO and DA2, and having the balls to provide the option of pursuing a gay/bi relationship if they choose. I cannot recall off the bat in the past couple years if there have been any other gaming studios doing this?

Apparently, from what I've read the past couple days in this forum, a select few individuals seem to be so damn offended that there is even an option to romance someone of the same sex, particularly if it's M/M, but are all for F/F. No one is forcing you to pick either side. You don't even have to choose the heart option if you don't want.
    Also, to those that say it is gross or not "right" or whatever to have a companion even try to attempt to flirt with your same sex Hawke need to relax and realize it is just a game. The worst is when someone posts and says that is wrong and should not be there but are fine with a someone of the opposite sex flirting with them.
   
There seems to be so much double standards with people here to the point where it is just silly....want something for themselves but also demand another group of human beings be excluded from those wants and desires....I'm a male and gay, and if a female comes up to me, whether it's in game or RL and and god forbid gives me a COMPLIMENT, I am going to be flattered and say not interested, not tell her to F*** off and say she is nasty and demand that no women should be allowed to approch me.
    Seriously, with the comments made here sometimes over something so trivial, I feel like we should be back in **** war times where people need to wear a patch or something on their clothes, not to state their religion, but their sexual orientation.

Anyways, I am starting to drift away from what I originally wanted to say. Again, thank you Bioware for having the balls to make a game appeal to EVERYONE. Please keep this up. I know myself and a huge chuck of other gamers appreciate this in the Dragon Age series. Please do not cave into backwards demands from others in future DA games. I am saying this as a proud  Canadian, and it is the least I would expect from an awesome Canadian company:bandit:

I too applaud the strength that Bioware has shown in allowing gay/bi relationships in DA2. I have been a harsh critic as of late concerning DA2 to the point i cancelled my pre order 4 hours after playing the demo. I have said time and again that this was a decision that i did not take lightly. The decision to cancel my pre order was the only way i could speak in the only language corporation understand. I was sad when i cancelled it and i have tried to make it known that as a supporter of the gay/bi romances this was NOT the reason. Not that any of it matters to a company as big as Bioware or the obtuse servants of the anti christ over at EA, but i am hoping that this choice is not the one blamed if DA2 tanks. Props Bioware for this but we still have other issues to discuss.

Asai

I am sorry you cancelled your order. It really is not that bad of a game once you play through it all and finish it. Yes, it was rushed and things could have been better like the reuse of maps, and constant freezing being fixed and more in depth (main plot) story. For the time they had to work with though, it was better than I thought it would be.

I would advise you to not always listen to the general crowd of sheeps on a bandwagon. You should see something 1st with your own experience to make a decision, at least when it comes to deciding if a game is good or not.

I doubt the people at EA see DA2 as tanking, with the amount of pre-orders they received. The money is there now and they have it....I'm sure the actual Bioware people realize it was rushed and could have been better though.