169 réponses à ce sujet

[vigna]

WTF?

[sympathy4saren]

I agree, but I'm a Libertarian.

Progressive fiscal policy is a joke

[General Flynt]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Wow, there is a lot of nasty hate in this thread. Of course it is all right for gay people to have straight romances shoved in their face all of the time in games, but when it is the other way around? It's the end of the world, right? /sarcasm

Thank you OP, for your wonderful post and for remaining so polite in the presence of all these hateful posts to your thread.

I love when someone has an opposite opinion on this topic it gets labeled "hate speech"

[Xilizhra]

Technically, Dr. Impossible is right in that pedophilia isn't itself child abuse. It's an attraction, not an action, and alone it only exist in one person.

That said, whining about homosexual romances is unfun.

[TysonL87]

Um bioware always had gay or straight relationships in their game even mass effect but you needed be lady shepard. the male doesnt because this game isn't about the person we create just shepard and who he is and he is straight.

[MaRKyzas21]

I don't see any progress here. Why do I need to enjoy the romances that all are written for sexual minorities? I am straight female and I don't like when everyone around me is gay or lesbians. That applies to the games as well.

[Gotholhorakh]

MaRKyzas21 wrote...

I don't see any progress here. Why do I need to enjoy the romances that all are written for sexual minorities? I am straight female and I don't like when everyone around me is gay or lesbians. That applies to the games as well.

I'm really not interested in that sort of thing in real life, so I know what you mean.

However, the very reason for the existence of Role Playing Games is to play roles and make choices you would never get the chance to do in real life - so the existence of choices in them is pretty much always a good thing. As long as the consequences don't completely ruin your game, maybe.

Personally, I try to be a moral person in real life, but I sure enjoyed butchering Leilana for fun.

I usually go in for a spot of mass murder in RPGs if it's available - now while that's obviously not as bad as making my own choices about sexuality, it's a great example, because I hardly ever mass murder anyone in real life.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 18 mars 2011 - 01:47 .

[Medhia Nox]

I didn't read this post - and my view is probably going to be unpopular - but I'm going to say it anyway.

As a gay man, I thought I was angry about Mass Effect not including gay relationships. However, and thankfully, I was MORE angry that I felt that Mass Effect 2 was a poor story with too many elements of non-RPG games for my taste (all opinion).

However - Dragon Age 2 has brought me to a new understanding. I'd gladly give up any romance option to have Dragon Age 2 be anything like an actual RPG. I'd give up every romance in any RPG ever to see a storyline where I could actually make a choice - where I wasn't a witness to the events of other more significant characters. You literally have no say in how this game turns out - just like a Gears of War. Had it been advertised as such - I could have skipped it and purchased Shogun: Total War instead... now I have to wait on a game that's getting amazing acclaim (Shogun) and I have Dragon Age 2.

I chalk it up to a lesson learned.

My opinion - I want all romances removed from future Bioware RPGs - and I want some epic awesome RP games I can play again where I'm not second fiddle to a insane terrorist and a pirate ****.

[stuboy52]

thank you Maximus Phoenix for making this good post as it shows some sense and intelligence unlike many other posts they that are haters rambling. i think bioware is right to change and adapt and if old school games dont like it dont play bioware games as from the beginning bioware has been about advancing its games and not becoming stagment. dont get me wrong DA2 as it minors issues but it still has proven the be a great game which i prefer over origins as this game took what was good from Origins and the dialogue style from ME to make something great. Thank you Bioware.

[MaximusPhoenix]

stuboy52 wrote...

thank you Maximus Phoenix for making this good post as it shows some sense and intelligence unlike many other posts they that are haters rambling. i think bioware is right to change and adapt and if old school games dont like it dont play bioware games as from the beginning bioware has been about advancing its games and not becoming stagment. dont get me wrong DA2 as it minors issues but it still has proven the be a great game which i prefer over origins as this game took what was good from Origins and the dialogue style from ME to make something great. Thank you Bioware.

Yes, DA2 does have minor issues, hopefully fixable in near future patches.
What I don't like is when people say they put too much effort into romances and equte that for the reason the game has so many bugs. Romances are such a small portion of the game overall.

Something I forgot to mention in my original post, if no gaming studio ever adapted to the whole market out there, then change would never come, nor could they max out their player base. Having gay characters in anything was always such a big taboo. Thankfully not anymore and that a gaming company did this and show that it is not the end of the world, like some people make it out to be.

Change is good.

[Deadmac]

MaximusPhoenix wrote...
I would like to first start off by commending Bioware for being socially progressive in DAO and DA2, and having the balls to provide the option of pursuing a gay/bi relationship if they choose.

If you think the act of living an alternate lifestyle is progressive, I must humbly disagree with your philosophy. Accepting others regardless about their gender, sexuality, and ethnicity is 'social progress'; however, the act of living alternate lifestyles is digressive from a evolutionary perspective. Also, only 12% of the world population is living an alternative lifestyle, and approximately 20% of the population thinks its okay. Even though I will socially tolerate their existence, I will never-ever accept what they do as normal. Never...

I do not care if anyone disagrees. That is life.

Respect the person, allow them freedoms to do what makes them happy, but... Don't for one minute think the act is considered a normal function of human evolution. It is not.

Modifié par Deadmac, 18 mars 2011 - 02:38 .

[MaximusPhoenix]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I didn't read this post - and my view is probably going to be unpopular - but I'm going to say it anyway.

As a gay man, I thought I was angry about Mass Effect not including gay relationships. However, and thankfully, I was MORE angry that I felt that Mass Effect 2 was a poor story with too many elements of non-RPG games for my taste (all opinion).

However - Dragon Age 2 has brought me to a new understanding. I'd gladly give up any romance option to have Dragon Age 2 be anything like an actual RPG. I'd give up every romance in any RPG ever to see a storyline where I could actually make a choice - where I wasn't a witness to the events of other more significant characters. You literally have no say in how this game turns out - just like a Gears of War. Had it been advertised as such - I could have skipped it and purchased Shogun: Total War instead... now I have to wait on a game that's getting amazing acclaim (Shogun) and I have Dragon Age 2.

I chalk it up to a lesson learned.

My opinion - I want all romances removed from future Bioware RPGs - and I want some epic awesome RP games I can play again where I'm not second fiddle to a insane terrorist and a pirate ****.

The thing though with DA, from what I've seen in Origins and especially DA2 is that they are not trying to make a "perfect world for all", unless Biowares claims otherwise. To me, and I'm sure others, the DA universe is about making provocative decisions and not being able to control every outcome. Certain events are there to make you think and feel something that stirs some kind of emotion and debate (see that huge thread about Anders decision)
There are plenty of games like you described that gives you what you want already.

[KAGORN FAERYSPLITTER]

This game doesn't appeal to most people. All you need to know that is an Internet connection and the ability to read.

These topics kinda look like the fixed scores by Bioware employees on review sites.

[Dr. Impossible]

MaximusPhoenix wrote...

Having gay characters in anything was always such a big taboo.

Or maybe nobody just cares.

Thankfully not anymore and that a gaming company did this and show that it is not the end of the world, like some people make it out to be.

There was homosexuality in Fallout 2. And in Jade Empire. And undoubtedly in games pre-dating Fallout 2.

Change is good.

Change is neutral.

[Deadmac]

Dr. Impossible wrote...
Change is neutral.

Agreed.

[Deadmac]

Oops. Double post. Sorry.

Modifié par Deadmac, 18 mars 2011 - 02:31 .

[MaximusPhoenix]

Deadmac wrote...

MaximusPhoenix wrote...
I would like to first start off by commending Bioware for being socially progressive in DAO and DA2, and having the balls to provide the option of pursuing a gay/bi relationship if they choose.

If you think the act of living an alternate lifestyle is progressive, I must humbly disagree with your philosophy. Accepting others regardless about their gender, sexuality, and ethnicity is 'social progress'; however, the act of living alternate lifestyles is digressive from a evolutionary perspective. Also, only 12% of the world population is living an alternative lifestyle, and approximately 20% of the population thinks its okay. Even though I will socially tolerate their existence, I will never-ever accept what they do as normal. Never...

I do not care if anyone disagrees. That is life.

That is your life perhaps, and you are entitled to your own opinion and beliefs, and are entitled to speak for yourself of course. That is freedom.

What you are not entitled to is to claim to speak for is a percentage of the worlds population.
You are also not entitled to claim my sexuality is an "alternative lifestyle" and "digressive" from evolution....I will not entertain and try to educate you about evolution and what the actual details behind evolution are really, as much as I love biology, I am not your university professor....you seem to be under the impression evolution is being "heterosexual and making babies"

I am just glad you did not say in your post that my "alternative lifestyle" is not "natural" in your evolution statement.

Modifié par MaximusPhoenix, 18 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[MaximusPhoenix]

KAGORN FAERYSPLITTER wrote...

This game doesn't appeal to most people. All you need to know that is an Internet connection and the ability to read.

These topics kinda look like the fixed scores by Bioware employees on review sites.

I can assure you I am not a Bioware employee...... :/

[Deadmac]

MaximusPhoenix wrote...
That is your life perhaps, and you are entitled to your own opinion and beliefs, and are entitled to speak for yourself of course. That is freedom.

Don't forget that.

Second, my informaiton about the percentages comes from a psychology text book, which is currently being handed out and taught at universities and colleges in the United States. That is life. Live with it.

Modifié par Deadmac, 18 mars 2011 - 02:35 .

[MaximusPhoenix]

Deadmac wrote...

MaximusPhoenix wrote...
That is your life perhaps, and you are entitled to your own opinion and beliefs, and are entitled to speak for yourself of course. That is freedom.

Don't forget that.

Second, my informaiton about the percentages comes from a psychology text book, which is currently being handed out and taught at universities and colleges in the United States. That is life. Live with it.

Please cite your references and your psychology text book and it's author then and the name of the study you are refering to.

[Deadmac]

MaximusPhoenix wrote...
Please cite your references and your psychology text book and it's author then and the name of the study you are refering to.

Sure...

"Abnormal Psychology"
Author: James N. Butcher (University of Minnesota)
Author: Susan Minka (Northwestern University)
Author: Jill M. Hooley (Havard University)

ISBN 0-205-35914.0

Copyright 2004

Psychologists believe a genetic flaw is responsible. Abnormality was located in a very small section of the brain. Very-very true study is being done on this.

You didn't think I had a reference did you? Lol...

Even though the lifestyle is becoming socially acceptable (good thing), the acts themselves are considered an abnormality by psychologists and biologists. Its being considered as an evolutionary flaw in genetics.

Modifié par Deadmac, 18 mars 2011 - 02:54 .

[MaximusPhoenix]

Deadmac wrote...

MaximusPhoenix wrote...
Please cite your references and your psychology text book and it's author then and the name of the study you are refering to.

Sure...

"Abnormal Psychology"
Author: James N. Butcher (University of Minnesota)
Author: Susan Minka (Northwestern University)
Author: Jill M. Hooley (Havard University)

ISBN 0-205-35914.0

Copyright 2004

Psychologists believe a genetic flaw is respnsible. It is located in a very small section of the brain. Very-very true study is being done on this.

You didn't think I had a reference did you? Lol...

Even though the lifestyle is becoming socially acceptable, the acts themselves are considered an abnormality by psychologists and bioligists.

That is not a reference...you gave me a name of a textbook and it's author with a year of 2004 .....show me a link to this study that says "20% of the world only thinks it's normal"....? 

Did this study survey every person on earth? Every person in the USA only?
What were the demographics of the study? What kind of study was it?  What was the sample size like?
  Please show me proof that what you quoted "only 20% of people think it's ok" ? Because if it was anything else that I listed above, your study would be extremely biased and frowned up in the scientific community.

[Iecerint]

Deadmac wrote...

The act of living alternate lifestyles is digressive from a evolutionary perspective. Also, only 12% of the world population is living an alternative lifestyle, and approximately 20% of the population thinks its okay. Even though I will socially tolerate their existence, I will never-ever accept what they do as normal. Never...

Respect the person, allow them freedoms to do what makes them happy, but... Don't for one minute think the act is considered a normal function of human evolution. It is not.

Naturalistic fallacy ftl

[Deadmac]

MaximusPhoenix wrote...
That is not a reference...you gave me a name of a textbook and it's author with a year of 2004 .....show me a link to this study that says "20% of the world only thinks it's normal"....?

I did.

Psychology text-books are always updated with current information. Text-books are references.

Extensive samplings were done to get those numbers. Originally, the number was around 7% of the population is living an alternative life style, and only 12% of the population thought it was acceptable.

Modifié par Deadmac, 18 mars 2011 - 02:58 .

[London]

As far as statistics go, Gay marriage approval is over 50% in some studies. Even outside of this hugely contested issue (thanks to religion), general approval for people being able to live whatever lifestyle they choose is well over 20%. Where do you live that it is 20%?

I also don't think homosexual lifestyles are regressive; I actually find them helpful. Since humans are already vastly overpopulating the planet and it is only a matter of time before we exhaust resources and drive most other species extinct, I think any person that decides not to have children (gay or straight) is helpful.