126 réponses à ce sujet

[RedShft]

I'm playing on hard with my DW warrior, I have no problem with heals. I have Morrigan with the base heal spell and a group heal. My warrior can talk down a white like level mob in less than two seconds. Running with a group that has a DW warrior and rogue will do wonders to making this game easier.



DPS > Heals.

[Greye]

I'm not willing to deal with the steep potion use in hard mode, so I went straight to get Wynne. Agree that the healing is underwhelming, but if it were more powerful, it would be probably be OP, unless the AI sent more aggro to the healer, but that would be extremely annoying with such large battles. So, also agree that it's well enough balanced as it is.

Also playing hard with DW warrior.   Very fun.

Modifié par Greye, 16 novembre 2009 - 11:53 .

[Sinfulvannila]

DW Berserker with the Warden's Keep talents is ridiculous

[Sinfulvannila]

I'm curious about how many people who rely on healing magic got the Tactician achievment...

[Brian Chung]

Did you put any points into Magic, even as a warrior or rogue? That stat determines how much of a benefit you get from healing spells or potions.

[Default137]

Sargon16 wrote...

After beating the game on hard mode, I haven't a clue how you would do so without a mage designed specifically around healing, like Wynne.

Possible? Probably. Fun? Only if you are a masochist.

I've beaten the game on Nightmare with two specs that had nothing to do with Wynne or Morrigan.

1st - DW PC, Alister tanking, Shale, Dog/Sten/Oghren

2nd - Arcane Warrior with Frost/Lighting/Mind ( no heal ), Alister, 2H Shale, Dog/Sten/Oghren

Its not really all that hard, all you need is smart CC, getting Alister so he can't be flanked, and more damage then the other guy, I could usually burn down several White Mobs before Alister would even normally hit 70%, and then it was just a matter of CC/Conquer.

[Skellimancer]

Brian Chung wrote...

Did you put any points into Magic, even as a warrior or rogue? That stat determines how much of a benefit you get from healing spells or potions.

>Put points into Magic
>Warrior/Rogue

How about you force mages to take strength and we will talk.

Modifié par Skellimancer, 17 novembre 2009 - 12:17 .

[Stronghold II]

Brian Chung wrote...

Did you put any points into Magic, even as a warrior or rogue? That stat determines how much of a benefit you get from healing spells or potions.

 That would be far too much to ask for from the min/maxers that are wanting these changes.

 Ya see, if they put a point into magic then that means that they would not be able to put a point into an attack skill, thus making that attack skill do .0000948764 less damage, thus driving these people insane.

 And ya see, every .000000894764 point of damage is very important being that this game is so heavily focused on PvP.

 See, it's not about game play and enjoyment, it's about mathmatical equations, and when nerds can't calculate every aspect of a video game they tend to go a bit mando on everyone. Like say for example the fire spells look awesome and are very effective.......well if the ice line does .00000094765 more damage, then these people will take the ice line everytime.

 It's sad that gaming has come to this, so many people are being ruined by MMOs.

[Zibon]

Stronghold II wrote...

 It's sad that gaming has come to this, so many people are being ruined by MMOs.

What's sad is that people allow the existence of MMOs to warp their thinking so much.  This min/maxing has always existed since D&D.  When someone finds that their character is taking too much damage and needs more healing because of this, the first thing they do is look for direct methods of improving surivability.  This means either increasing dex for more defense (as well as attack to kill threats faster) or constitution for more hp.  Why would you bother putting points into something that is rarely used vs something that is always used to accomplish the same goal?

Anyway I don't have a problem with it.  Healing is meant to complement the usage of potions and that works fine for me.

[Sargon16]

Default137 wrote...

I've beaten the game on Nightmare with two specs that had nothing to do with Wynne or Morrigan.

1st - DW PC, Alister tanking, Shale, Dog/Sten/Oghren

2nd - Arcane Warrior with Frost/Lighting/Mind ( no heal ), Alister, 2H Shale, Dog/Sten/Oghren

Its not really all that hard, all you need is smart CC, getting Alister so he can't be flanked, and more damage then the other guy, I could usually burn down several White Mobs before Alister would even normally hit 70%, and then it was just a matter of CC/Conquer.

I'm nearly 100% certain you are trolling.  There are tough encounters that would absolutely rip those parties to  little shreds, much less on nightmare.  The first party doesn't even have a single mage.  You would have to spend probably half the gold you earned in game on health potions.

CC is great, until the mobs name goes yellow or orange.  Then CC may as well not exist, since it mostly resists, and only lasts a 1/2 second when it does manage to hit.

[Ranik15]

Or we could just ask that it be tied to a stat important to each class, like STR/CON  for warriors, Magic/WIL for mages, and DEX/Cunning for rogues. It'd look at the base class of the potion user and check the applied statistic to be used for purposes of being healed.

[Ultramongoose]

I found that I was wiping very, very often, and then I discovered Wynne.

I have hardly wiped since I've had her in my party, and boss fights feel like a breeze compared to before. I think the healing's fine for my level anyway, having just completed the Broken Tower quest, but perhaps it does get a little underpowered in the higher levels.

[Brian Chung]

Skellimancer wrote...

How about you force mages to take strength and we will talk.

Strength contributes to physical resistance, so you take less damage, which could distrupt spellcasting.  If you go arcane warrior, you have to pick up Dex (+attack) and Con (+HP) if you use a melee weapon (like Spellweaver which is arcane warrior only).  They list this in the tooltips when you hover over the stat row.

There's no dump stat in this game, every stat has benefits to the overall character even if it's not apparently obvious.

A min/max warrior that puts everything into strength will hit less often if you don't put any into dex, and will have a glass jaw with a 10 CON.

[BlackHarmo]

So, hasn't anyone who think that Heal is underpowered yet realized that Heal's (big) advantage comes_also_ in letting your healed target continue fighting instead of interrupting and losing tactically important seconds drinking pot. hello?

Modifié par BlackHarmo, 17 novembre 2009 - 12:44 .

[Sinfulvannila]

BlackHarmo wrote...

So, hasn't anyone who think that Heal is underpowered yet realized that Heal's (big) advantage comes_also_ in letting your healed target continue fighting instead of interrupting and losing tactically important seconds drinking pot. hello?

That is of course the first thing I considered, but think of it the other way around. Who's is going to accomplish more in that round, the Warrior or Rogue being healed, or the mage healing? Would you rather do a 190 point group heal(most of that in overhealing) with the mage and, say a 90 point whirlwind(or whatever). Or would you rather do a 150+ heal with said warrior or rogue and a 300+ damage + 2 round CC with Cone of Frost?

[konfeta]

There's no dump stat in this game, every stat has benefits to the overall character even if it's not apparently obvious.

"Dump stat" status isn't determined by whenever an attribute has a use as much as by how much use it has relative to other stats.



Giving minor gimmicky bonuses to other attributes will not solve min-maxing. A well played (Non-Blood)Mage doesn't even have an incentive to get Willpower or Constitution, let alone investing in Cunning (beyond coercion req)/Dex/Strength.

[WillieStyle]

Brian Chung wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

How about you force mages to take strength and we will talk.

Strength contributes to physical resistance, so you take less damage, which could distrupt spellcasting.  If you go arcane warrior, you have to pick up Dex (+attack) and Con (+HP) if you use a melee weapon (like Spellweaver which is arcane warrior only).  They list this in the tooltips when you hover over the stat row.

False.  Arcane Warriors don't need Dex.  Just cast Miasma and essentially turn your magic (spellpower) into +attack.  Arcane warriors also don't need Con when they get hit for 2 points of damage by a high dragon.  In anycase, using CON as an example is silly because all characters need CON.  A mage theoretically needing CON is in now way similar to a warrior needing Magic.  Warriors need CON too, but mages don't need strength.

There's no dump stat in this game, every stat has benefits to the overall character even if it's not apparently obvious.

False. There are dump stats if you're a mage (Str, Dex).  If you're a warrior or rogue, however, you're forced to take magic so your healer can heal you.

A min/max warrior that puts everything into strength will hit less often if you don't put any into dex,

Huh?! Doesn't strength contribute to attack exactly the same as Dex?

and will have a glass jaw with a 10 CON.

Sure but that doesn't mean there aren't dump stats in the game.  Warriors and Rogues (especially rogues) suffer from Multiple Attribute Dependency more than mages. 

[Sylixe]

Make Wynne an AW and she's so full of win it is definetly cheating.

[sophee]

Brian Chung wrote...

Did you put any points into Magic, even as a warrior or rogue? That stat determines how much of a benefit you get from healing spells or potions.

Thats retarded.

[Skellimancer]

Brian Chung wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

How about you force mages to take strength and we will talk.

Strength contributes to physical resistance, so you take less damage, which could distrupt spellcasting.  If you go arcane warrior, you have to pick up Dex (+attack) and Con (+HP) if you use a melee weapon (like Spellweaver which is arcane warrior only).  They list this in the tooltips when you hover over the stat row.

There's no dump stat in this game, every stat has benefits to the overall character even if it's not apparently obvious.

A min/max warrior that puts everything into strength will hit less often if you don't put any into dex, and will have a glass jaw with a 10 CON.

I put no points into dex and had no problems hitting.

Precise Striking comes in handy.

[JamesX]

Not sure what AW you guys are playing...

I can't afford the Miasma's 60 point upkeep and keep up the combat skill's 50% fatigue + wearing Armor + another upkeep for the Mage shield + the insane mana drain on the Shimmering Shield.

When I first made a Warrior I thought, who needs dex.  It gotten to the point he dies in seconds when being attacked - because his Defense is too low.

It is far more effective (in my experience) to have his Dex at a reasonable level (~20) and Strength of 50 than to have Strength of 60 and Dex of 10.

Modifié par JamesX, 17 novembre 2009 - 01:05 .

[Devilsway]

healings nice when potion timer are down, although each tier of potion has a different timer so if you have potions healing is meh. Buff spell power might make it more tasty but it's not terrible as it is.

[Brian Chung]

Skellimancer wrote...

I put no points into dex and had no problems hitting.

Well either one gives a benefit to your attack power, I just prefer dex as it also gives my mage a higher chance to avoid attacks at the expense of inflicting physical damage.

[Rikaze]

Sargon16 wrote...

Default137 wrote...

I've beaten the game on Nightmare with two specs that had nothing to do with Wynne or Morrigan.

1st - DW PC, Alister tanking, Shale, Dog/Sten/Oghren

2nd - Arcane Warrior with Frost/Lighting/Mind ( no heal ), Alister, 2H Shale, Dog/Sten/Oghren

Its not really all that hard, all you need is smart CC, getting Alister so he can't be flanked, and more damage then the other guy, I could usually burn down several White Mobs before Alister would even normally hit 70%, and then it was just a matter of CC/Conquer.

I'm nearly 100% certain you are trolling.  There are tough encounters that would absolutely rip those parties to  little shreds, much less on nightmare.  The first party doesn't even have a single mage.  You would have to spend probably half the gold you earned in game on health potions.

CC is great, until the mobs name goes yellow or orange.  Then CC may as well not exist, since it mostly resists, and only lasts a 1/2 second when it does manage to hit.

Huh, that's funny, ya know...  I played Two-Handed Weapon, Human Noble, on Hard, for my first playthrough...  Only twice did I ever use Wynne, one of which I was completely forced to use her...  Second time...  Well, Morrigan had left my party by that point (Got fed up with me I guess,) and I felt like I needed a Mage of some kind, so I took Wynne.

Party looked like...
Me - Two-Handed Human, +Champion, +3/4 Berserker Talents
Alistair - Weapon and Shield, +Templar, +3/4 Champion Talents
Morrigan - Mage, Zero Healing, +1/4 Shifter Talents, +Arcane Warrior, for stats only.  Used 4xIce, Walking Bomb and Death Syphon, Lightning, Arcane Bolt, Life Drain, Vuln. Hex, Sleep.  (She had other stuff that I never used.)
Leliana - Archer Rogue, +2/4 Bard Talents, +Duelist, +Lockpicking/Device Mastery

It's funny, you know, the complete and total reliance on Healer's some people feel.  It's not THAT expensive to craft Health Poultices in stacks of 100 by mid-to-late game, which is what I used from start to finish barring the two times I either had to, or decided to take Wynne with me.  My City Elf Rogue on Nightmare actually killed her, and my Nightmare Mage is going to kill her...  Eventually...  Just not at the first opportunity...  Eventually though, Wynne will ****** her off and she will kill Wynne...