126 réponses à ce sujet

[Zibon]

Brian Chung wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

How about you force mages to take strength and we will talk.

Strength contributes to physical resistance, so you take less damage, which could distrupt spellcasting.

Err.. physical resistance is just for stuff like resisting knockdown and stuns, no?  Not taking less damage.

Modifié par Zibon, 17 novembre 2009 - 01:30 .

[Sylixe]

JamesX wrote...

Not sure what AW you guys are playing...

I can't afford the Miasma's 60 point upkeep and keep up the combat skill's 50% fatigue + wearing Armor + another upkeep for the Mage shield + the insane mana drain on the Shimmering Shield.

When I first made a Warrior I thought, who needs dex.  It gotten to the point he dies in seconds when being attacked - because his Defense is too low.

It is far more effective (in my experience) to have his Dex at a reasonable level (~20) and Strength of 50 than to have Strength of 60 and Dex of 10.

whoa..whoa ..whoa.  you have WAY to many spells active on your AW if that is what you have turned on.  I almost never use shimmering shield.  In fact i don't even think i have it on my bar.  All you need is the lvl 1 AW ability on and maybe your armor if you feel your def is to low.  Other than that you are fine.  What makes an AW so good is the lvl 4 AW ability and the fact that you are a CASTER wearing plate armor!!!  If you have never played a true D&D cleric you will not be able to appreciate i guess how cool it is to be able to make one in this game.

[ThisGameIsbugged]

I think the problem is that you're supposed to be using +% to healing
received items... except that they dont actually work. In Nightmare
mode you have to stay on top of your healing otherwise you'll fall behind with heal having a 5 second cooldown. The game is certianly doable with only one healer on Nightmare mode without potions, but there are many times where you have to spam your knockdown/stun abilities while you're waiting for the cooldown on heal to come back up.

[Meshuganah]

Sinfulvannila wrote...

I'm curious about how many people who rely on healing magic got the Tactician achievment...

I got the tactician achievement before level 10.

[konfeta]

I don't think you even can get tactician achievement by "healing" damage. It's per enemy slain, not per battle fought, right?

[Sinfulvannila]

Just using it to illustrate the point that if you CC effectively, you can completely negate an enemy's damage dealing ability, thus reducing the need for healing.

[Sargon16]

I rely heavily on healing, and potions alike. And I got tactician about half way through my first play through. Probably because I love shatter combos



I think I partly started to love healing just because I was desperately low on health potions for most of the game until I discovered where you could buy unlimited elfroot. Using a health potion was a big deal for me for the first half of the game, I couldn't waste them.



Also heals help when mobs do overwhelm or grab style moves. I know there are abilities which free the person, but they always seem to resist. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I can't count the number of times an ogre or a dragon has picked up alistair and I've watched him take enormous damage, with nothing for me to do but spam heals nonstop from 2 mages.

[menasure]

i think there's something like a general direction where to go on the map for the overall difficulty. supposedly i took the wrong one from the start and found myself lacking or even out of potions constantly despite of plundering every shop and every herb i came across. now my party has leveled with better gear available, more specialized in both healing and damage and all of a sudden there seems to be a relative abundance of at least healing potions, mana potions on the other hand are never in high supply.

[Wolff Laarcen]

Sinfulvannila wrote...
..if you CC effectively, you can completely negate an enemy's damage dealing ability, thus reducing the need for healing.

On normal, on trash, sure.  Bosses typically cant be CC'd though their adds can be.  At some point, SOMEONE is going to get hit and they will require healing.  It's not possible to run through the game and never get hit; surely that's not what youre suggesting?

Brian Chung wrote...
Did you put any points into Magic,
even as a warrior or rogue? That stat determines how much of a benefit
you get from healing spells or potions.

According to the ingame tooltip - which i admit may be 100% wrong, like many other things in the game - magic score determines a mage's spellpower, which directly affects spell potency.  For non mages, magic only affects the potency of healing items.

It would be silly to expect melee characters to have to stack a caster stat to get an effective heal from another character, dont you think?

[MrFish]

I think that is somewhat part of the problem. Because the CC is so good, hard fights tend to come down to CC or die. of course it's not always like this, but thats somewhat the overall perspective. Now for instance, I'm currently only around level 10 on nightmare and happily trundling my way along just fine. I have no healer.



My current best heal is to (BoP The Tank) cast forcefield on Alistair when he is tanking a very large number of enemies and at health sinking uncontrollably. My unfortunate tendancy is to Potion Spam, something I prefer to use one or two a fight but I dislike that as a mechanic.



Now I can, with some cunning, CC everything with my mage duo, which is also fine But, I would somewhat prefer to have the viable option of tanking whilst CCing loose mobs and healing the tank. I find some AOE CC very powerful as Proactive Healing but most Reactive healing abilities are somewhat poor in scaling.



At low levels, they are fine and sit roughly proportional to the HP pools. I was a tiny bit dismayed when the lowest heal has a (is it?) 10 second cooldown, but I figured it would scale neatly to compensate, which, as many have already pointed out, doesn't do so.



As some point I'll tear open the scripts to find out how much it does scale by but personally I'd rather it had shorter cooldowns or better scaling (either is perfectly viable, a mix of both preferable). I'd be happier if playing a healer had a little more effort put to it, given that their heals are somewhat poor and slow (long), and that it was a viable option to not CCing everything or chaining pots.

[MrFish]

Wolff Laarcen wrote...

It would be silly to expect melee characters to have to stack a caster stat to get an effective heal from another character, dont you think?

Also there's the Secret Maths problem where knowing how Much effect this will have is somewhat...secret (as in, I'll 2da/script trawl for it happily but to Joe Average, they have no idea whether its worth 0.1% extra healing or 10% per point)

[Sargon16]

The complete obfuscation of numbers and math in DA is one of my only complaints. Understand I'm spoiled by MMO's, and knowing the numbers.



I know why they do it, but it still irks me. They could give a few more numbers in tooltips.

[Wolff Laarcen]

Sargon16 wrote...
Also heals help when mobs do overwhelm or
grab style moves. I know there are abilities which free the person, but
they always seem to resist.

Or the person with the interrupt move is the one getting smashed, or its on cooldown, or theyre out of stam, etc.  A lot of times tanks are taking the most damage while theyre stunned or incapaciatated (high dragon fights come to mind).

MrFish wrote...
...because the CC is so good, hard fights tend to come down to CC or die. of course it's not always like this... heals are ... a viable option to not CCing everything or chaining pots.

There is nothing wrong with CC at all!  Its good business; why let 8-10 mobs pound on your tank(s) when you can neutralize all but 1 and kill them at your leisure?

CC doesn't have to be an alternative to healing; why not both?  Set your mages up with primary tactics of healing and put single-target attack spells at a low priority.  If you have enough slots, you can even assign specific heal priorities like heal yourself first, then the tank, then the other mage, then the melee, etc.  Micromanage your CC of course, but if you have to switch to another character your carefully planned, intricate tactical strategys will work for you.

[Wolff Laarcen]

MrFish wrote...
Also there's the Secret Maths problem where knowing how Much effect this will have is somewhat...secret (as in, I'll 2da/script trawl for it happily but to Joe Average, they have no idea whether its worth 0.1% extra healing or 10% per point)

Its gotta be closer to .1% i bet, lol.

[MrFish]

edit:  to sargon.

Indeed, I see the reasoning, but I don't like it. Unfortunately Secret Maths leads to you should have known answers, which are somewhat, well, as the tooltip error shown earlier in the thread says, bad.

edit (to a certain person who says Take Magic for better heaing recieved vs bad tooltip) I'll raise you a should have known with my should have checked.

Modifié par MrFish, 17 novembre 2009 - 02:15 .

[MrFish]

Wolff Laarcen wrote...

MrFish wrote...
Also there's the Secret Maths problem where knowing how Much effect this will have is somewhat...secret (as in, I'll 2da/script trawl for it happily but to Joe Average, they have no idea whether its worth 0.1% extra healing or 10% per point)

Its gotta be closer to .1% i bet, lol.

Unfortunately.  I wish it wasn't, mind you. [Please note, number was removed from my nether regions for effect]



In regards to your other post, Wolf.  I don't disagree with you that CC is a good way of countering damage, and in a perfect world (or with some dirty party combos ) is just fine.  I can happily CC my way through the game, I just don't like its neccesity in a way that counters reactive healing, or even proactive healing (casting when you know damage is Due) because of how poor the numbers thrown up by the heals are.

I would prefer that the Magic stat on a character didn't arbitrarily scale the incoming healing spell, that should be the magical power of the caster.  Now I have nothing against something like a Heal Over Time effect (example), or other bonses having a chance to proc off a sucessful heal Because the character has high magic (i.e. on a warrior) but I don't like how it effectively opposes the healing effectiveness of the caster.

Side note; I Really need to run some numbers.

[Socratatus]

I hate the auto heal. I wish you stayed as hurt as you are unless you rested or used spells or medikits like in previous games. I feel like I`m no longer Human in the game but some kind of alien. Hate it, hate, hate it!

[MrFish]

Socratus:



But then you get Rest Spam that is Neverwinter Nights where you hit R after each combat. As much as its "not realistic" it makes for better gameplay, and I'll take that Any day.



Sometimes I'll get cascading combat, which only means I'm out of combat for a few seconds, due to the NPC AI of a secondary spawn kicking in, for whatever abritrary reason and joining in, so it's not Always a case of Wait To Heal, I just have to deal with it (and pot up). Also you do have to remove injuries if party members die, which, on one of the harder difficulty settings is not uncommon.

[Wolff Laarcen]

Socratatus wrote...

I hate the auto heal. I wish you stayed as hurt as you are unless you rested or used spells or medikits like in previous games.

Isnt the elapsed time that health and mana takes to regen after combat the exact same thing as 'resting'?  Theyre saving you the press of a button, is all.

[Socratatus]

You guys just don`t get it.



I want it like in baldur`s gate. Give us 6-8 hours in rest time. Give us good old fashioned heal spells. give us good heal potions.Imagine you were reading a graphic novel fantasy comic and the characters just healed immediately after battle - or Conan just instsnatly healed with no reason why or Strider and the hobbits just instantly healed in LOTR. It don`t happen because it blow believability in the fantasy.



nah, but none of you will get it, just as long as you don`t ever have to go to all the effort of pressing another button....

[MrFish]

I get it. I know exactly what you're saying, but there's more to games than spending most of your time waiting inbetween combats, when the games are somewhat combat orientated. In that case, you have to lower the number of encounters, or increase the mana pools of the casters to compensate for healing up the whole party, or increase regen doubly to counter time spent waiting.



It's a game. It's not a D20 RPG, so it doesn't have to act like one - and god I hate the D&D 3e spell system.



BUT this is not the topic at hand.

[Ginnerben]

Socratatus wrote...

You guys just don`t get it.

I want it like in baldur`s gate. Give us 6-8 hours in rest time. Give us good old fashioned heal spells. give us good heal potions.Imagine you were reading a graphic novel fantasy comic and the characters just healed immediately after battle - or Conan just instsnatly healed with no reason why or Strider and the hobbits just instantly healed in LOTR. It don`t happen because it blow believability in the fantasy.

nah, but none of you will get it, just as long as you don`t ever have to go to all the effort of pressing another button....

The thing is, if they get injured, you do have to heal up.  That's what Injury Kits are for.  

Minor scrapes and bruises that you acquire through battle are less debilitating.  

[VanDraegon]

oops, wrong thread.

Modifié par VanDraegon, 17 novembre 2009 - 02:48 .

[Sinfulvannila]

Socratatus wrote...

You guys just don`t get it.

I want it like in baldur`s gate. Give us 6-8 hours in rest time. Give us good old fashioned heal spells. give us good heal potions.Imagine you were reading a graphic novel fantasy comic and the characters just healed immediately after battle - or Conan just instsnatly healed with no reason why or Strider and the hobbits just instantly healed in LOTR. It don`t happen because it blow believability in the fantasy.

nah, but none of you will get it, just as long as you don`t ever have to go to all the effort of pressing another button....

In DnD, and therefore Baldur's Gate, HP doesn't only represent physical trauma. It represent an abstract combination of physical endurance, luck and some physical trauma. Characters in those books would usually come out of battle unscated or nearly mortally wounded. And I hated how in BG you would be awake for like 20 minutes in world time and then sleep for 8 hours. That's just dumb.

[Wolff Laarcen]

Socratatus wrote...
You guys just don`t get it... I want it like in baldur`s gate.

maybe you should go and play Baldur's Gate?