157 réponses à ce sujet

[joejoe099]

what do you think? Was he actually right by blowing up the chantry? Or did he act with Vengence in control?


Personally, i think he's a Reaper in disguise.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Did you not bother to read/listen to him as you questioned him prior to your decision on his fate? I can only imagine the people who blame "Vengence" just ESC keyed through all the dialog or something.

He's clearly well aware and completely unrepentant of what he did and the consequences of those actions.

[joejoe099]

I know, in fact i heard him say over and over that he didn't want me to be involved, to protect me. he cared. but it a bit much

[WhiteKnyght]

Crazed terrorist is probably more accurate.

[NvVanity]

Well the old Anders is certainly gone after the bonding with Justice/Vengeance and now instead we have an unrepentant magical terrorist who may have just caused Thedas's most horrific war, Blights withstanding.

I say crazed abomination. Only reason he's still living is because Rogue Hawke needs a healer.

[BlaznZero]

My dagger in his back says he's a crazed terrorist.

[The Big Nothing]

Both?

[tausra]

Crazed Terrorist/Abomination. He says constantly that Justice is no longer Justice, but vengeance, tainted by his own rage. He's two seconds away from completely losing control throughout the game and being worse than Meredith. Heck, after completing his "join up" quest you can push him to glowing just because you're disagreeing with him.

[drhys23]

i got a certain "dark phoenix" vibe from him. he was neither abomination nor freedom fighter. he was something different altogether, however flawed or righteous it may have been.

[catgirl789]

I liked Anders, but I lost all faith, trust, and respect in him after his red beam from the sky. I kept him in my party, but I wish there was an option to tell him that it wasn't because I liked him it was just that I didn't want to kill him and I didn't trust him not to cause more trouble when I couldn't keep an eye on him.

[Jazharah]

Heh, I knew what he was up to during his personal quest already... stinky stuff from dung? Sela Petrae? If you know the slightest bit about chemistry that would easily be deduced to Salpeter & Ammonia. Try mixing that RL

I never finished his companion quest because I knew what he was up to. Still... he did it anyway

Killed him. I don't deal with terrorists. No matter the motivation.

[FirstCitizen800]

Anders is an abomination. There are good an evil spirits, but it seems that when a spirit merges with a mage, whether it be a pride demon of a spirit of Justice, all you get is bad. It makes me wonder what evil Wynne is up to in Dragon Age 3. (Not that I'm particularly happy with Dragon Age 2 Bioware, I'll probably buy 3, but my days of pre-ordering from you are done!)

[WhiteKnyght]

FirstCitizen800 wrote...

Anders is an abomination. There are good an evil spirits, but it seems that when a spirit merges with a mage, whether it be a pride demon of a spirit of Justice, all you get is bad. It makes me wonder what evil Wynne is up to in Dragon Age 3. (Not that I'm particularly happy with Dragon Age 2 Bioware, I'll probably buy 3, but my days of pre-ordering from you are done!)

Thats assuming Wynne is even alive in DAIII. She was already on the old and dead side. Plus she was borrowing on the spirit's power making her life shorter.

Besides, what's the worst she could do as an abomination? Grow 8 arms and wag her fingers?

[Isaidlunch]

joejoe099 wrote...

what do you think? Was he actually right by blowing up the chantry? Or did he act with Vengence in control?

It was Anders choice ultimately but I don't believe he'd have gone through with it if it wasn't for Vengeance. Exhibit A (not my video) - www.youtube.com/watch

[Zulmoka531]

I was shocked to see his character change so much from Awakenings. But I couldn't justify letting him get away with what he did.

A revolution was coming, there was no stopping it, but what he did only made things worse for mages in my opinion. The chantry, in Kirkwall at the very least, did not deserve that kind of an attack.

[Azul7]

Labeled as a terrorist now but in history later on as a martyr if the revolution succeeds

[FirstCitizen800]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

FirstCitizen800 wrote...

Anders is an abomination. There are good an evil spirits, but it seems that when a spirit merges with a mage, whether it be a pride demon of a spirit of Justice, all you get is bad. It makes me wonder what evil Wynne is up to in Dragon Age 3. (Not that I'm particularly happy with Dragon Age 2 Bioware, I'll probably buy 3, but my days of pre-ordering from you are done!)

Thats assuming Wynne is even alive in DAIII. She was already on the old and dead side. Plus she was borrowing on the spirit's power making her life shorter.

Besides, what's the worst she could do as an abomination? Grow 8 arms and wag her fingers?

Heh, who knows. I'm reminded of the old (and IC) debate of whether or not Andraste was a religious figure or just a powerful mage. I like that debate, as it shows how Mages aren't all iredemably evil. (Unless Andrestate was just a Tevinter slave who made a bargon with the Fade's most powerful Pride Demon.) But I definately appreciate Dragon Age 2 for its true illumination of blood magic. Even if you knew that there was a 95% chance saying the words "Blood Magic" would turn you into a remorseless abomination, how many of us in RL could really resist appealling to demons if and when we were truly pressed for money or our very lives.


"Sorry, sir, you have terminal brain cancer. You'll be dead in six months. Although you could say 'Blood Magic' and have a chance of saving yourself....most likely you end up as a demon who kills his own family and then some. But, hey, that's not always the case...:and you're lucky, because this offer is only made to 1% of cancer victims, and you happen to be one of them....and thats why the other 99% percent of cancer victims hate you...because they envy you....and the offer I just made....choose life, serah....choose life...

[Iecerint]

Wow, that video's really telling. Does Justice pop up more like that if you go the Rivalry route? I only saw him in the Fade on the Friendship route.

[WhiteKnyght]

FirstCitizen800 wrote...

Heh, who knows. I'm reminded of the old (and IC) debate of whether or not Andraste was a religious figure or just a powerful mage. I like that debate, as it shows how Mages aren't all iredemably evil. (Unless Andrestate was just a Tevinter slave who made a bargon with the Fade's most powerful Pride Demon.) But I definately appreciate Dragon Age 2 for its true illumination of blood magic. Even if you knew that there was a 95% chance saying the words "Blood Magic" would turn you into a remorseless abomination, how many of us in RL could really resist appealling to demons if and when we were truly pressed for money or our very lives.


"Sorry, sir, you have terminal brain cancer. You'll be dead in six months. Although you could say 'Blood Magic' and have a chance of saving yourself....most likely you end up as a demon who kills his own family and then some. But, hey, that's not always the case...:and you're lucky, because this offer is only made to 1% of cancer victims, and you happen to be one of them....and thats why the other 99% percent of cancer victims hate you...because they envy you....and the offer I just made....choose life, serah....choose life...

From what Marethari said about Feynriel's dreamer powers and what I already know about Andraste I'm pretty inclined to believe that she was a Dreamer. (Long meditations = Entering the fade. Natural disasters like droughts and floods = Manipulating the world from the fade.)

And yes, DAII does show the darker side of magic. But its good to keep in mind that almost everything has a dark side and a bright side.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The interesting thing is that if you bring Anders to the fade, Justice shows up and he *hates* demons and thinks you should not compromise with them at all. I think Anders is a confused abomination and Justice is a confused spirit / demon. As for freedom fighter / terrorist, more often then not, it ends up being one and the same, depending on who you are asking and who writes history. But I think he in some ways is similar to Magneto.

That said, I think he was foolish and reckless. It might be admirable to decide that to die fighting is better than living as a slave, but he was neither appointed nor is qualified to make that choice for every mage in Thedas. He doesn't have a plan both during and post-revolution, and he is not a leader. All he ends up doing is create chaos, and he hopes that someone else will fix it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 mars 2011 - 06:30 .

[HopHazzard]

Both.

[WhiteKnyght]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The interesting thing is that if you bring Anders to the fade, Justice shows up and he *hates* demons and thinks you should not compromise with them at all. I think Anders is a confused abomination and Justice is a confused spirit / demon. As for freedom fighter / terrorist, more often then not, it ends up being one and the same, depending on who you are asking and who writes history. But I think he in some ways is similar to Magneto.

Thats a pretty good comparison. And another confirmation on my theory that the Mage thing is X-Men inspired.

[kedcoleman]

 The entire point is that he's both.  And that's not just confined to Anders, nor Dragon Age: 2 at all.  Origins and Awakenings both had their difficult choices of equally ****ty choices.  DA:2 just took it deeper.  The closest thing to an entirely Good companion may be Aveline.  Fenris may have been a mage-hating hunted former-slave, but he chose that path for himself to save his family.  Merrill has to choose between rebuilding a dangerous demon-fueled artifact or tossing away Elven history.  Anders....well...Anders.

That's what the game is all about.  And, to a great extent, your answer is a matter of perspective.  

[GennadiosMxms]

Abomination.

Funny story, I spared him in the initial shock of it all, then I realized that I spent the entire game killing blood mages for far lesser offenses without so much as chatting with them first.

Ended up reloading the game and executing him out of principle.

[Iecerint]

The main contextualization I came up with for Anders was textbook Chaotic Good. He values freedom for others and is willing to sacrifice to obtain it for them, but he shows poor insight into how to bring it about, so bad outcomes result in spite of his broader intentions.

In other words, I think the answer to the OP's question is "both, but I think looking at him a different way will help him make sense better."