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[MortalEngines]

Kazanth wrote...
It was Anders choice ultimately but I don't believe he'd have gone through with it if it wasn't for Vengeance. Exhibit A (not my video) - www.youtube.com/watch

That video is very interesting actually (I didn't romance him, so I never got a scene like that). I think it speaks volumes about how much of this was truly Anders and how much was the new Anders/Vengence mash-up. While I understand that yes, in Ander's eyes he was protecting his kind, but I don't think he would of gone to such extremes had it not being for Justice now skewed and extreme sense of Vengence. 

So I think that Anders is the result of when a very influencable spirit makes contact with a easily influenced, weak willed freedom figher.

[sassperella]

joejoe099 wrote...

what do you think? Was he actually right by blowing up the chantry? Or did he act with Vengence in control?


Personally, i think he's a Reaper in disguise.

It seems to me that as the game progresses he evolves from Anders/Vengeance where you get glimpses of both to a state where as he himself says that they are one person. His appearance changes, his party banter changes and he changes. He says that it's not Vengeance but him, but that 'him' is not the Anders from Awakening it's a new being created by the complete melding of the two entities, which he also repeats several times.

That said, when he nukes the chantry Justice starts to appear and Anders shakes him off which could indicate that they're trying to say it was Anders decision and not Justice. But for seven years Anders has had Justice whispering in his ear so there's no knowing how meaningful that would be and how much the real Anders has been lost.

Oh and one more thing.... I hate you Bioware  I finished it last night and OMG was i cursing you guys lol. You did it to me again. Alistair in DA:O "oh no" I thought alistair would never want to do the dark ritual, I'm sure it'll be OK..... and now Anders... How could you?

[Cat Fancy]

Kazanth wrote...

It was Anders choice ultimately but I don't believe he'd have gone through with it if it wasn't for Vengeance. Exhibit A (not my video) - www.youtube.com/watch

Wow. That's really sad. I'd basically written Anders off as crazy, stupid, and evil for most of the endgame and, well... he's still that. But...

Almost makes me wanna try out and Anders rivalmance, but I think I'm going for Isabela this playthrough, if I can ignore the pull of Fenris (I can't. pretty eyes.). He'd still end up on the pointy end of murder-knife, though.

[Statulos]

Anders is the best example of the mage attitude in this game. The chantry does not listen! We´re poor victims! We´re oppressed! Yes, crooked templars and fanatics like Meredith do not help, fine. But fry their asses with conventional magic. I mean, you don´t need blood magic to put a masive fireball on their respective asses! Damn, you don´t even need to arrange a demonic rave to defend yourself!

So the answer to all this templar-bulling is blood magic and terrorism. Excelent dudes! Just like Tevinter who happens to be universaly loathed for slavery and blood magic. You´re really going to win hearts and minds among the non mages for sure!

[Catalyst38]

When it comes down to it i think it had to be done the false peace the circle provided needed to be destroyed and theres nothing like a attack on a church to force it to happen. The Circle is slavery yes call it what you will but its slavery without exception and it needed to be destroyed. I agree with him to force everyone to choice a side, that said i killed anders afterworlds a crime like that no matter how justified could not go unpunished and he knew that.

my opinion i have typed already on this matter so i'll repost it here.

"After seeing the endings of the game i have to say all mages should be as the Saarebas every mage that was backed into a corner turned into a blood mage even the ones that still had a chance. Mages are dangerous evil creators that need to be keep in chains. I started the game as a mage sympathizer but as it progressed i slow but surly saw the truth you should as well.......Ataash qunari!


there is only the Qun."

[LobselVith8]

I didn't kill him, and I don't think he was a crazed abomination. He wanted to see an end to the Chantry controlled Circles where mages were getting raped, tortured, made tranquil, and getting killed. He wanted to stop slavery. Whether he was right or wrong is entirely in the hands of Hawke, as we get to decide how to respond to his action against the Chantry. Since I shared his point of view about the Chantry and the mages, I didn't see a reason to kill him for wanting an end to the slavery of his people.

[eye basher]

Anders was just a coward not once did he try to fix the problem all he did was complain and whine about it and then drop it on someone else's shoulders first on the warden then on hawke and then there's justice he didn't kill people he just did what Anders wanted to do but never had the guts to do himself.

[errant_knight]

umwhatyousay wrote...

Kazanth wrote...

It was Anders choice ultimately but I don't believe he'd have gone through with it if it wasn't for Vengeance. Exhibit A (not my video) - www.youtube.com/watch

Wow. That's really sad. I'd basically written Anders off as crazy, stupid, and evil for most of the endgame and, well... he's still that. But...

Almost makes me wanna try out and Anders rivalmance, but I think I'm going for Isabela this playthrough, if I can ignore the pull of Fenris (I can't. pretty eyes.). He'd still end up on the pointy end of murder-knife, though.

Yeah. That is really sad. I never got that in the game, and it reinforces what I though was going on--both that Anders in no longer the man he was in Awakening and that he's lost control and is become an abomination in truth, although an unusual one. It doesn't change anything about what I did or how I'd feel about it. I felt crappy about killing Anders, really crappy, but I didn't hesitate. It would have been better for both Anders and Kirkwall if we could kill him at the beginning. I think Anders IS Vengence, somethimes Vengence just comes out more fully. He says himself that he can't tell where one ends and the other begins.There are vestiges of Anders, but the guy in Awakening wasn't this ruthless. He's an abomination.

[Darian Tylmare]

History is written by the victorious. Only time can tell if he will become a marty like Andraste or a crazy man.

[Taleroth]

I have a hard time faulting Anders. I do not agree with his methods, but I do his results. Elthina was a good person, but I won't mourn her. She claimed to want to protect her flock, but she was selective. The mages are part of her flock and she should have protected them, too.

The war needed to come.

[Pileyourbodies]

Crazed terrorist and crazed abomination. Hes also a martyr by definition.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Darian Tylmare wrote...

History is written by the victorious. Only time can tell if he will become a marty like Andraste or a crazy man.

Even if mages become victorious, unless Anders specifically contributes to the creation of something new, with actual planning and thinking and not just boom, he should recieve no credit imo.

He might be a convenient fool, but he'd remain a fool.

[Darian Tylmare]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Even if mages become victorious, unless Anders specifically contributes to the creation of something new, with actual planning and thinking and not just boom, he should recieve no credit imo.

He might be a convenient fool, but he'd remain a fool.

Your right that he doesn't deserve a great place in history for just that, but there are many instances where something is exagerated to a great degree.
Maybe the story goes sometime like:" And than the mighty Anders reunited all the mages behind him with his first grand act of justice, not only sparking their will to fight but actually making a sign and leading the first of the new mages to victory."
We will never know until new content but even in our history theere are enough people on the sidelines who are now famous for whatever they did.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Darian Tylmare wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Even if mages become victorious, unless Anders specifically contributes to the creation of something new, with actual planning and thinking and not just boom, he should recieve no credit imo.

He might be a convenient fool, but he'd remain a fool.

Your right that he doesn't deserve a great place in history for just that, but there are many instances where something is exagerated to a great degree.
Maybe the story goes sometime like:" And than the mighty Anders reunited all the mages behind him with his first grand act of justice, not only sparking their will to fight but actually making a sign and leading the first of the new mages to victory."
We will never know until new content but even in our history theere are enough people on the sidelines who are now famous for whatever they did.

I know. I feel he shouldn't get credit. Doesn't mean he won't.

And I'll hope that eventually, revisionist historians show up in Thedas to counter the myth.

[LobselVith8]

If Anders isn't killed, I don't see why he wouldn't be part of the mage revolution. He was already part of the mage underground. I think he would contribute towards helping the Circles maintain their independence.

[dewayne31]

both i was actually going to ask question yesterday. but i just didn't feel right, i thought it might cause a flamewar. i'm glad it was though

[Dante Angelo]

I think he's an abomination. Although I'm merely saying that because I was disappointed with his character in DA:II

[Augustei]

Anders was a completely reckless fool.. I mean, I can see where he is coming from and perhaps this war is even necessary.. But for the war to happen right now? It couldn't have come at a worse time. The Llomeryn Accord was Just broken!! He witnessed it being broken.. The Qunari will inevitably invade very soon.. Then he goes and causes disunity between the two factions that stopped the last invasion.. So now they wont stop this one. The Qunari will invade and conquer and all will fall under the Qun.. So, Mage freedom eh? If you call being leashed, having your tongue cut out and your mouth stiched then sure.. otherwise they are going to be far worse off then before.

The Mages are to spread out anyway, and there is a divide in their ranks.. The Loyalists and Aquetarians are still pro chantry.. (I Know the Aquetarians claim to be neutral but they will side with the Loyalists, they favor them already and anders actions with the chantry will further this)

They cant go to Tevinter, Because Tevinters Magisters dont want them. Political competetion is the last thing they would want. They would not put up with Foreign mages.

[Taleroth]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Anders was a completely reckless fool.. I mean, I can see where he is coming from and perhaps this war is even necessary.. But for the war to happen right now? It couldn't have come at a worse time. The Llomeryn Accord was Just broken!! He witnessed it being broken.. The Qunari will inevitably invade very soon.. Then he goes and causes disunity between the two factions that stopped the last invasion.. So now they wont stop this one. The Qunari will invade and conquer and all will fall under the Qun.. So, Mage freedom eh? If you call being leashed, having your tongue cut out and your mouth stiched then sure.. otherwise they are going to be far worse off then before.

You just made me realize the true genius of what Anders did.  It's simply the most brilliant ploy ever.

The Chantry will have to concede to Mage demands.  They have no choice.  He gave them bargaining power.

[Medhia Nox]

Anders is a selfish disgusting animal.

He deceived my Hawke (albeit you don't actually get an option not to be betrayed) by using their "love" to get him to gather the ingredients for the bomb he was making - then, he tries to use him to get him into the Chantry (didn't do the quest).

And even had he not done all that - he proved the Chantry right. I despise "freedom fighters" - filthy petty hypocrites indulging their violent tendencies and justifying their evil actions with terms like "freedom" and "justice".

[Mahtisonni]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Anders is a selfish disgusting animal.

I agree with you completely.
Seriously, what kind of friend does that? I was the one who called dibs on destroying the chantry with orbital lasers.
:crying:

Bastard stole my kill. He will go to hell for that.

Modifié par Mahtisonni, 16 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[ObserverStatus]

Neither, brilliant pyrotechnic.

[Mahtisonni]

Taleroth wrote...
The Chantry will have to concede to Mage demands.  They have no choice.  He gave them bargaining power.

If the Qunari invade then the chantry is totally screwed unless the mages agree to help them.
"Unless the opponent is a mage then i'm just a guy in a metal suit" as King Alistair once said.

To my knowledge a metal suit doesn't really protect you from gunpowder weapons which Qunari have, but shooting a fireball to a ship using muzzle loaded blackpowder weapons can have a rather amusing outcome.

Qunari have superior physique and technology so without magic their precious theocracy is going down from toilet.
Too bad that they were too stupid to realize this and kept on bullying them.

Modifié par Mahtisonni, 16 mars 2011 - 06:43 .

[Darian Tylmare]

Mahtisonni wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
The Chantry will have to concede to Mage demands.  They have no choice.  He gave them bargaining power.

If the Qunari invade then the chantry is totally screwed unless the mages agree to help them.
"Unless the opponent is a mage then i'm just a guy in a metal suit" as King Alistair once said.

To my knowledge a metal suit doesn't really protect you from gunpowder weapons which Qunari have, but shooting a fireball to a ship using muzzle loaded blackpowder weapons can have a rather amusing outcome.

Qunari have superior physique and technology so without magic their precious theocracy is going down from toilet.
Too bad that they were too stupid to realize this and kept on bullying them.

I wouldn't overestimate the power of mages. All need eventually rest. There is no mage that could keep on for a day or two without rest. Their power is as tiring as physical exercise. If you cut their lyrium supply off the only thing they can do is sacrifice their fellow fighters to keep going on.

[KAAurious]

He's neither. He's another Flemeth. Remember the story of Flemeth? How she spoke to spirits first and then demons? Well, that changed her into something. Anders is in a similar boat. I wouldn't quite call him an abomination as he retains his own mind (or that mixed mind as he insists is the case) most of the time. But he losses it when faced with mage oppression. I think overtime (assuming you don't kill him) he'd gradually shift to whatever it is she became.