85 réponses à ce sujet

[flem1]

It's absolutely stunning to drop in and see the whining and sense of entitlement that are choking this forum (and the other, though maybe not quite as badly there).  All the more so when I do so after a session of playing what's really a triumph of loving craftsmanship by Bioware on every level.

But I suppose this is party the company's own fault:  let's face it, every Bio game after BG2 has been trivially easy, though fun (except NWN1 OC) in other ways to make up for this.  Now I realize there were some pretty plausible reasons for this, but it seems to me like one of those quest solutions that has repercussions down the road:  in this case, making a stack of unchallenging games has encouraged a playerbase that expects unchallenging games, no longer on the lookout for new tactical twists and wanting their one single favored tactical setup to win every fight.

That's too bad, because the game is quite entirely fair in teaching you what works and what you need to make things work.  (Even the toughest part -- mage spell selection -- is given a big hint by starting Morrigan in the most powerful lines along with useless shapeshifting.)  They've even set it up so you can dedicate more effort and understanding into *either* character building or on-the-fly micromanagement and unless you *completely* screw the other one up, you're fine.  Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

[Endarken]

I am sorry, I tried to read what you wrote but it just looked like you used a random paper generator with 5 keywords :/

[FRZN]

Endarken wrote...

I am sorry, I tried to read what you wrote but it just looked like you used a random paper generator with 5 keywords :/

hey, random paper generators are the new mad libs!

An essay on dragon age
Are you sitting comfortably? Advancments in dragon age can be linked to
many areas. While much has been written on its influence on
contemporary living, its influence on western cinema has not been given
proper recognition. Inevitably dragon age is often misunderstood by
socialists, many of whom blame the influence of television. Complex
though it is I shall now attempt to provide an exaustive report on
dragon age and its numerous 'industries'.
Social Factors
Society is a human product. When The Tygers of Pan Tang sang 'It's lonely at
the top. Everybody's trying to do you in' [1] , they shead new light on
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momentum. While deviating from the norm will always cause unrest
amongst ones peers, dragon age provides standards by which we may judge
our selves. When one is faced with people of today a central
theme emerges - dragon age is either adored or despised, it leaves no
one undecided. Society says that every man must find their own truth.
While one sees dragon age, another may see monkeys playing tennis.
Economic Factors
Do we critique the markets, or do they in-fact critique us? We shall
examine the Spanish-Armada model, which I hope will be familiar to most
readers.
Housing Prices

                                                 dragon age

The statistics make it clear that dragon age is a major market factor.
Clearly housing prices, ultimately decided by politicians, will always
be heavily influenced by dragon age due to its consistently high
profile in the portfolio of investors. In the light of this free trade
must be examined.
Political Factors
Machiavellian politics is rife. Are our leaders justified in pursuing
and maintaining political power? Comparing the ideals of the young with
the reality felt by their elders is like contrasting playing with a
puppy and singing with a blackbird. One quote comes instantly to
mind when examining this topic. I mean of course the words of that most
brilliant mind Elijah Lionel Forbes Dickinson 'Taking a walk across hot
coals will inevitably hurt your feet.' [2] What a fantastic quote. If
dragon age be the food of politics, play on. One thing's certain. The Human species liberally desires dragon age, and what's more human than politics?
Conclusion
In summary, dragon age may not be the best thing since sliced bread,
but it's still important. It inspires, ensures financial stability,
though dragon age brings with it obvious difficulties, it is truly
dragon age.What a great essay. Finally a word from super-star
StevieSpielberg: 'I would say without a shadow of a doubt: dragon age
ROCKS!!! [3]
[1] Tygers of Pang Tang - The Cage - 1982 MCR Records[2] Dickinson - I Am The Dickinster - 1999 Hughs Books[3] Smashing Hits - Issue 224 - Jazz Media

Modifié par FRZN, 16 novembre 2009 - 09:43 .

[Wolff Laarcen]

flem1 wrote...
... let's face it, every Bio game after BG2 has been trivially easy, though fun ... making a stack of unchallenging games has encouraged a playerbase that expects unchallenging games... Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

Please explain to me why enjoyment and challenge have to be mutually exclusive, I'd really like to know.

[flem1]

Wolff Laarcen wrote...

flem1 wrote...
... let's face it, every Bio game after BG2 has been trivially easy, though fun ... making a stack of unchallenging games has encouraged a playerbase that expects unchallenging games... Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

Please explain to me why enjoyment and challenge have to be mutually exclusive, I'd really like to know.

You've completely reversed what I think.

Should I rephrase my post?

Whiners suck, and are killing this forum (and, possibly -- though I doubt it, considering that Georg is in charge -- the game).
But it's partly Bioware's fault for catering to them with their years of pushover games.

[EricHVela]

FRZN = Awesome.

[KilrB]

Wolff Laarcen wrote...

flem1 wrote...
... let's face it, every Bio game after BG2 has been trivially easy, though fun ... making a stack of unchallenging games has encouraged a playerbase that expects unchallenging games... Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

Please explain to me why enjoyment and challenge have to be mutually exclusive, I'd really like to know.

If you enjoy a challenge, they're not.

I am finding DA:O to be both.

[Skellimancer]

You know Baldur's Gate 1 is not hard at all when you know where all the best items are and where to go and more importantly where not to go.

[daem3an]

I'm surprised at the sense of entitlement too. Should I be? I don't know, when I get a game I play by the rules I've been given. It's different when there's something fundamentally broken, which isn't the same as not wanting to play a game that actually takes some effort to win.

I've never had this much fun with any other Bioware game, and I've played most of them, so enjoyment & challenge are not mutually exclusive (and I didn't get that impression from the OP). Compared to the number of copies being sold, the few people posting 'demanding' the game be changed to suit their personal preferences seems pretty silly to me.

[Haexpane]

Well first of all, I don't agree that DAO Is "too hard" at all. But I also don't agree about this "easy games" myth out there.



Gran Turismo S license.. easy?

Demon's Souls - Easy?

Ninja Gaiden - Easy?

God of War - Easy?

Valkyrie Chronicles - Easy?



Not every game in the world is WoW w/ XP bonus. Don't support urban myths "games from the last decade are easy" just to troll.

[hexaligned]

This game is much easier than some others I can think of, mostly because it so damn easy to "exploit" ingame mechanics.

[chizow]

DA:O isn't even the most challenging RPG of 2009, try Last Remnant and see if you still think this game is challenging. DA:O is challenging for about 5 hours until you get your first NPC mage, then its all easy mode thereinafter.

[Haexpane]

This game is too easy on Nightmare



Are you sitting comfortably? Many an afternoon has been enjoyed by a family, bonding over the discussion of This game is too easy on Nightmare. While much has been written on its influence on contemporary living, there are just not enough blues songs written about This game is too easy on Nightmare. Often it is seen as both a help and a hinderence to the upper echelons of progressive service sector organisations, many of whom blame the influence of television. Relax, sit back and gasp as I display the rich tapestries of This game is too easy on Nightmare.



Social Factors



Society begins and ends with This game is too easy on Nightmare. Back when Vealinger reamarked ‘the power struggle will continue while the great tale of humanity remains untold’ [1] he created a monster which society has been attempting to tame ever since. Spanning divides such as class, race and uglyness, This game is too easy on Nightmare demonstrates a coherent approach, something so lacking in our culture, that it is not recognised by all.



Recent thought on This game is too easy on Nightmare has been a real eye-opener for society from young to old. To put it simply, people like This game is too easy on Nightmare.



Economic Factors



There has been a great deal of discussion in the world of economics, centred on the value of This game is too easy on Nightmare. We will study the Watkis-Teeth-Pulling model using the median instead of the mean, where possible.

Oil

Prices



This game is too easy on Nightmare



It is apparent from the graph that the influence of This game is too easy on Nightmare is strong. What is the secret to its strength? It goes with out saying that oil prices has always depended upon This game is too easy on Nightmare to a certain extent, but now more that ever. Perhaps to coin a phrase This game is too easy on Nightmareeconomics will be the buzz word of the century



Political Factors



Politics, we all agree, is a fact of life. Comparing current political thought with that held just ten years ago is like comparing chalk and cheese.



Take a moment to consider the words of the famous political Esperanza B. Adger 'Man's greatest enemy is complacency with regards to personal and political hygiene.' [2] Amazingly, he new nothing of This game is too easy on Nightmare until he was well into his thirties. It is a well known 'secret' that what prompted many politicians to first strive for power was This game is too easy on Nightmare.

Since the Renaissance This game is too easy on Nightmare has become more and more prevalent. May it continue.



Conclusion



To conclude This game is too easy on Nightmare has a special place in the heart of mankind. It fills a hole, brought up a generation and always chips in.



I will leave the last word to the famous Christina Spielberg: 'At first I was afraid I was petrified. Thinking I could never live without This game is too easy on Nightmare by my side.' [3]



[1] Vealinger - Turtle Power - 2003 ICJ



[2] Adger - Politics Per Day - 2000 Jinder Publishing



[3] It Magazine - Issue 302 - Spam Media Group

[Sidney]

Challenging is obviously relative but there are clearly legitimate problems people have - and almost all of them are combat related.



1. Trying to find the right "script" for your NPC's.

2. Forgoing that, having to pause constantly - something that even at it's worst in BG I never did that much other than to cast spells.

3. The game wants to be "tactical" and yet it abuses almost all known forms of tactics:

- You can't control choke points as foes run through your choke point.

- Foes lobs AoE at their own people no matter the FF effect

- The game drops you or pulls you into grossly abusive tactical positions no sane person would wind up in,



The learning curve is steep and too much of what happens if in a big black box that doesn't have a clearly communicated outcome to inform player judgements.

[Mad Method]

flem1, the biggest challenge in learning DAO comes from Bioware's failure to have a proper tutorial that explained how combat works, Bioware's failure to have descriptive tooltips on abilities, and Bioware's failure to explain any of the mechanics in the game manual. Consequently, people get their asses handed to them since they can't adjust to the combat. But those tips on how to equip gear in the inventory screen sure were useful... Georg Zoeller is working on it, however.

Once you actually work out how the game goes, it becomes really, really easy, even on Nightmare. You chain chug pots of different ranks to take advantage of their low cooldown. You can have Shale to do Taunt + Quake (or the rock tossing) + Force Field when you get rushed. You use unholy spell combinations like Sleep and Waking Nightmare to trivialize large-scale combat. You take Glyph of Repulsion and block a doorway with it so you can kill the occupants behind the door at your leisure, count the seconds, and then apply Glyph of Paralysis when it's about to wear off on top of it for the AoE paralysis spell combo. You take a rogue, stealth, scout some enemies, go back, use hold position, grab your mages, switch to tactical mode, and blast your enemies with non-projectile spells through walls where the aggro can't reach. You use line of sight to aggro enemies in smaller groups than you should be able to. You take a trap maker, and, before that dialogue-which-leads-to-inevitable-combat starts, drop like 10 traps right in front of them, then start the dialogue and kill them without lifting a finger. You do stuff like take the Arcane Warrior specialization, but leave the mage with the staff as a weapon and use a medium/blood dragon chest armor for the low fatigue to cast as well as any mage, yet take hits ordinary mages should not be able to withstand. You learn to avoid putting too many stats in Willpower for your mages because things like Rejuvenation, Spell Bloom, Death Syphon, Song of Valor, Stone Aura, and mana pots can take care of it without you spending those pricey points on Willpower. Combat becomes surprisingly trivial when you manage these things well.

Modifié par Mad Method, 17 novembre 2009 - 01:36 .

[Sylixe]

Wolff Laarcen wrote...

flem1 wrote...
... let's face it, every Bio game after BG2 has been trivially easy, though fun ... making a stack of unchallenging games has encouraged a playerbase that expects unchallenging games... Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

Please explain to me why enjoyment and challenge have to be mutually exclusive, I'd really like to know.

I think you need to explain to me why they shouldn't be.  After you do that i'll explain to you why your stance is the reason your generation is considered the lazy "Me" generation that requires instant gratification in every aspect of your lives.

[Wolff Laarcen]

chizow wrote...
...try Last Remnant and see if you still think this game is challenging.

i LOVED last Remnant...

[Osprey39]

flem1 wrote...

It's absolutely stunning to drop in and see the whining and sense of entitlement that are choking this forum (and the other, though maybe not quite as badly there).  All the more so when I do so after a session of playing what's really a triumph of loving craftsmanship by Bioware on every level.

But I suppose this is party the company's own fault:  let's face it, every Bio game after BG2 has been trivially easy, though fun (except NWN1 OC) in other ways to make up for this.  Now I realize there were some pretty plausible reasons for this, but it seems to me like one of those quest solutions that has repercussions down the road:  in this case, making a stack of unchallenging games has encouraged a playerbase that expects unchallenging games, no longer on the lookout for new tactical twists and wanting their one single favored tactical setup to win every fight.

That's too bad, because the game is quite entirely fair in teaching you what works and what you need to make things work.  (Even the toughest part -- mage spell selection -- is given a big hint by starting Morrigan in the most powerful lines along with useless shapeshifting.)  They've even set it up so you can dedicate more effort and understanding into *either* character building or on-the-fly micromanagement and unless you *completely* screw the other one up, you're fine.  Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

For what it's worth, the insect swarm shapeshifting form rocks.

[chizow]

Wolff Laarcen wrote...

chizow wrote...
...try Last Remnant and see if you still think this game is challenging.

i LOVED last Remnant...

Yeah I was really surprised at its low ratings and lukewarm reviews, I think much of them were derived from the poor performance on consoles as well as some pretty key omissions, like being able to disable certain skills.  Like most jRPGS however, it had a steep learning curve with very challenging combat.  What I liked the most was it showed turn-based combat can still be done in an engaging, rewarding and challenging manner.  In any case, its readily available for $20-$25 from a variety of sources, Newegg, GoGamer, Amazon etc. for anyone looking for another distraction after Dragon Age.  I

[Sloth Of Doom]

flem1 wrote...

It's absolutely stunning to drop in and see the whining and sense of entitlement that are choking this forum (and the other, though maybe not quite as badly there).  All the more so when I do so after a session of playing what's really a triumph of loving craftsmanship by Bioware on every level.

But I suppose this is party the company's own fault:  let's face it, every Bio game after BG2 has been trivially easy, though fun (except NWN1 OC) in other ways to make up for this.  Now I realize there were some pretty plausible reasons for this, but it seems to me like one of those quest solutions that has repercussions down the road:  in this case, making a stack of unchallenging games has encouraged a playerbase that expects unchallenging games, no longer on the lookout for new tactical twists and wanting their one single favored tactical setup to win every fight.

That's too bad, because the game is quite entirely fair in teaching you what works and what you need to make things work.  (Even the toughest part -- mage spell selection -- is given a big hint by starting Morrigan in the most powerful lines along with useless shapeshifting.)  They've even set it up so you can dedicate more effort and understanding into *either* character building or on-the-fly micromanagement and unless you *completely* screw the other one up, you're fine.  Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

Preach on, brutha.

Someone needs to sticky that.

[Wolff Laarcen]

Sylixe wrote...
I think you need to explain to me why they shouldn't be.  After you do that i'll explain to you why your stance is the reason your generation is considered the lazy "Me" generation that requires instant gratification in every aspect of your lives.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions about someone based on a post on an internet message board, arent you?  Do tell - subjective measurements aside - why does a game need to be either fun or difficult, but not both?  The OP already has stated this wasn't his viewpoint; I misinterpreted what he said.  So whose point are you defending anyway?

I await your enlightening reply.

[flem1]

Haexpane wrote...

Well first of all, I don't agree that DAO Is "too hard" at all. But I also don't agree about this "easy games" myth out there.

Then you didn't bother reading my post.

NWN:  easy (unless you expected your retarded "henchman" AI to do something besides die)
KOTOR:  super-easy
Jade Empire:  easy
Mass Effect:  easy

[Nighteye2]

flem1 wrote...
Let's hope Bio sticks to its guns and helps encourage a new back-to-challenge generation of player expectation.

I second that.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

How to play VERY EASY mode: Use the spell forcefield and autoattack dragons to death with your fists.

[SheffSteel]

If whining is a problem, whining about whining isn't likely to fix it.



Alternatively, not every post on this forum is actually whining.