39 réponses à ce sujet

[Melra]

AlexXIV wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
Being an author watching fan reaction must be fun at times.

It's something, I'll give you that.

Shouldn't you be busy rewriting the 'All that remains' quest right now so I can save Hawke's mother?

No. You can't save everyone, deal with it. Move on. It was the most impactful moment in the game for me, it would be silly, if it all was avoidable. Who would choose not to save her anyway? The whole game has decisions that have this shade of gray to them, there's no clear good/evil choices.  

Modifié par Melrache, 15 mars 2011 - 03:50 .

[AlexXIV]

Nyaore wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

sapientia24 wrote...

maybe its just me but when you talk to the keeper marathari and ask her about flemeth, the keeper says that the dalish are bound to flemeth. What does that mean really?there is different types of being bound ie asha'bellenar saves your life etc.

another thing when you ask merril about the ritual she says that the ritual is sort of a funeral.

Merril seemed surprised that you survived an encounter with ash'bellanar. Since Merril says that usually no one survives a meeting whith asha'bellanar. They end up dead.

Unless they are my Warden, in which case Asha'bellanar ends up dead.

Question is though, did she let the Warden kill her or not? I wouldn't put it past her to put the Warden, and Morrigan, into a false sense of security just to further one of her many goals.

Well obviously yes she would let the Warden kill her an make it look like she fought as hard as she could. Reasons are for once, she already made sure she survives anyway. And if she killed the Warden then her plan had failed. The plan with the Old God Baby. Even though it is not clear if she still thought her plan would work at this point since Morrigan found our about her and probably wouldn't go back to her.

Anyway, she went down, point for the Warden.

[AlexXIV]

Melrache wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
Being an author watching fan reaction must be fun at times.

It's something, I'll give you that.

Shouldn't you be busy rewriting the 'All that remains' quest right now so I can save Hawke's mother?

No. You can't save everyone, deal with it. Move on. It was the most impactful moment in the game for me, it would be silly, if it all was avoidable. Who would choose not to save her anyway? The whole game has decisions that have this shade of gray to them, there's no clear good/evil choices.  

If I was willing to deal with it I wouldn't have mentioned it from start. I have to deal with it probably, but it doesn't stop me from trying to find a way.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[Parrk]

AlexXIV wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
Being an author watching fan reaction must be fun at times.

It's something, I'll give you that.

Shouldn't you be busy rewriting the 'All that remains' quest right now so I can save Hawke's mother?

My second time through, I hoped that not killing Du Puis would allow hime to catch the killer and kill him first.  So much for letting that guy live.

[vigna]

Nhadalie wrote...

I got the impression that they revere her because she's a powerful mage/abomination/legend/whatever the hell she is. It seemed like less of revering her as in hero worship, and more of "She's really dangerous, and kind of scary. So it'd be smart to be very respectful of her."


I'm pretty sure her "appointment" was a reference to her second meeting with the Warden. Whether the Warden would kill her, or make a deal with her. It could possibly reference her going after Morrigan too though.

I didn't get that at all. I assume she appeared through the amulet because the Warden had killed her other /rest of her body in ferelden. I thought the appointment had to do with another hero or Morrigan. I assume that if we get another DA beyond expansion or DLC it will deal with tevinter, the  mages, darkspawn, elves, Ferelden, war...or something like that. Flemeth has an agenda.

[RazorrX]

she said she had an appointment, thus could not take it herself. The appointment was with the grey warden (when you show up to kill her in DA:O). She put a part of her soul in it so that she could come back.

IF she had not been killed, the sliver would return to her. IF not, she will slowly (or quickly) reabsorb what she was until she is complete again.

That was my take anyway.

[Vilegrim]

AlexXIV wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

sapientia24 wrote...

maybe its just me but when you talk to the keeper marathari and ask her about flemeth, the keeper says that the dalish are bound to flemeth. What does that mean really?there is different types of being bound ie asha'bellenar saves your life etc.

another thing when you ask merril about the ritual she says that the ritual is sort of a funeral.

Merril seemed surprised that you survived an encounter with ash'bellanar. Since Merril says that usually no one survives a meeting whith asha'bellanar. They end up dead.

Unless they are my Warden, in which case Asha'bellanar ends up dead.

Question is though, did she let the Warden kill her or not? I wouldn't put it past her to put the Warden, and Morrigan, into a false sense of security just to further one of her many goals.

Well obviously yes she would let the Warden kill her an make it look like she fought as hard as she could. Reasons are for once, she already made sure she survives anyway. And if she killed the Warden then her plan had failed. The plan with the Old God Baby. Even though it is not clear if she still thought her plan would work at this point since Morrigan found our about her and probably wouldn't go back to her.

Anyway, she went down, point for the Warden.

It has to have occured AFTER the second meeting, the year of servitude getting citizenship (which you have to do before going to sundermount) is the year in which the Blight is ended, meaning that if the warden did kill her it was before Sundermount, and the Amulet was her 'get out of hell' free card.  

She even says it, claiming the amulet was insurance in case the 'inevitable' happened, which knowing 'her Morrigan' it would have.

[Kenshen]

Nyaore wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

sapientia24 wrote...

maybe its just me but when you talk to the keeper marathari and ask her about flemeth, the keeper says that the dalish are bound to flemeth. What does that mean really?there is different types of being bound ie asha'bellenar saves your life etc.

another thing when you ask merril about the ritual she says that the ritual is sort of a funeral.

Merril seemed surprised that you survived an encounter with ash'bellanar. Since Merril says that usually no one survives a meeting whith asha'bellanar. They end up dead.

Unless they are my Warden, in which case Asha'bellanar ends up dead.

Question is though, did she let the Warden kill her or not? I wouldn't put it past her to put the Warden, and Morrigan, into a false sense of security just to further one of her many goals.

Morrigan gives you the answer to that.  She didn't think it really possible to kill Flemeth even if you strike her down.  Not sure if Morrigan was aware of that little trick with the amulet but it turned out she was right.

[thenemesis77]

Since Hawke and the Warden are both brought up at the end of the game and they are in search of them both, do you think Flemeth will try to get the Warden back for what he/she did for Morrigan? I would love to frigh her again.

[Zalocx]

sapientia24 wrote...

I wonder something here, is the grimore you the warden give to morrigan after the deal/fighting asha'bellenar, is it her real grimore?

No clue, but I would be very surprised if it was. Maker's Breath, I am half convinced that the "fake Grimore" we found in Irving's office was a red herring to prompt Morrigan into action or said noting about body snatching and Morrigan was just raised in a way that she would use it as an excuse. Shale and Zevran even call Morrigan out on "the magic book written in a way only she can read really saying what she says it does".

Flemeth is too good at manipularing people, she had close to two decades to mold Morrigan exactly how she wanted. I would not be surprised if her whole God Baby/Eluvian plan to fight her mother is actually her dancing on Flemeth's strings without realizing it

thenemesis77 wrote...

Since Hawke and the Warden are both
brought up at the end of the game and they are in search of them both,
do you think Flemeth will try to get the Warden back for what he/she did
for Morrigan? I would love to frigh her again.

I doubt it, we know from her appointment quote that she planned for the Warden to confront her, and frm the amulet that she planned to fight and lose. Why would she be mad at what is basically her plan working out?

Modifié par Zalocx, 15 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[Parrk]

Zalocx wrote...

sapientia24 wrote...

I wonder something here, is the grimore you the warden give to morrigan after the deal/fighting asha'bellenar, is it her real grimore?

No clue, but I would be very surprised if it was. Maker's Breath, I am half convinced that the "fake Grimore" we found in Irving's office was a red herring to prompt Morrigan into action or said noting about body snatching and Morrigan was just raised in a way that she would use it as an excuse. Shale and Zevran even call Morrigan out on "the magic book written in a way only she can read really saying what she says it does".

Flemeth is too good at manipularing people, she had close to two decades to mold Morrigan exactly how she wanted. I would not be surprised if her whole God Baby/Eluvian plan to fight her mother is actually her dancing on Flemeth's strings without realizing it

thenemesis77 wrote...

Since Hawke and the Warden are both
brought up at the end of the game and they are in search of them both,
do you think Flemeth will try to get the Warden back for what he/she did
for Morrigan? I would love to frigh her again.

I doubt it, we know from her appointment quote that she planned for the Warden to confront her, and frm the amulet that she planned to fight and lose. Why would she be mad at what is basically her plan working out?

I  also thought that the amulet was used in preparation for that fight, but it seems to me that when the amulet is used, then the incarnation of her that it produces knows only the events up to the time that the amulet was endowed with the piece of her.

The conversation with her lead me to believe that she did not know for sure at that time how or even if she had beeen slain.

[InfiniteAvenger]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

"Do you know who I am, beyond that title?"
"Only a little, Asha'bellanar."
"Then stand. The people bend their knee too quickly."

Implication: There is a reason the Dalish should worship/be respectful of her, but Flemeth will not accept respect that is granted without a good, known reason.

{belated, I know, but have to say this...)

I believe that Asha'bellanar/Flemeth is of the people the way she speaks to them.  Remember, the subtleties hidden within her statements.  I was just playing through this very conversation again (I couldn't help myself) and noticed her wording when speaking with Merril and with Fenris who was in my party, too.

If I am correct, Asha'bellanar is like an abomination in a sense but the Spirit was not demonic in nature but the spirit of an Arlathan mage trapped (or preserved if you will) like the Arcane Warrior spirit.  I am thinking that when Flemeth ran away to the Wilds in the first place and talked with Spirits and Demons over time.  Morrigan mentions it was "spirits first" when asked.  Suppose these Spirits guided Flemeth and she ended up taking in the 'properly preserved' soul of an Arlathan mage and this is where she got her powers in the beginning of things.

Bioware really does like to foreshadow in subtle ways and indirect hints.  This could definitely be one of them.  This would fit with the time and the legend building around Flemeth/Asha'bellanar as well.  Even Cormac weaved himself into the legend trying to take credit for Flemeth's supposed demise at one time.  This only helped Flemeth stay in seclusion which seems to fit her very well I might add.

I used to think it was only the voice actor for Flemeth that made me want to like her so much.  But, the mysteriously sarcasticly humorous Asha'bellanar has stuck in my mind ever since the first game.  I even modeled a Skyrim character after her I was impressed so much.  It is really cool how much the Skyrim Daedric Armor with a Circlet headpiece and white hair really looks like Asha'bellanar from DA2.  But, I am off on a tangent, sorry.

Please, comment your thoughts on this as you wish.  I look forward to seeing more discussion on this subject.

-IA

[InfiniteAvenger]

AlexXIV wrote...

Melrache wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
Being an author watching fan reaction must be fun at times.

It's something, I'll give you that.

Shouldn't you be busy rewriting the 'All that remains' quest right now so I can save Hawke's mother?

No. You can't save everyone, deal with it. Move on. It was the most impactful moment in the game for me, it would be silly, if it all was avoidable. Who would choose not to save her anyway? The whole game has decisions that have this shade of gray to them, there's no clear good/evil choices.  

If I was willing to deal with it I wouldn't have mentioned it from start. I have to deal with it probably, but it doesn't stop me from trying to find a way.

I have only one thing to say to that... Kobayashi Maru.

-IA

[Face of Evil]

Did anyone give a serious answer to this question? Asha'bellanar means "Woman of Many Years."

The Dalish don't know what she is, they just know she is powerful and afford her the proper respect.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 12 décembre 2012 - 09:12 .