299 réponses à ce sujet

[Jugo616]

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

[SmokeyNinjas]

Couldn't care less about him blowing up the Chantry after a 1000 years of systematic enslavement, torture & murder wether directly or indirectly involved no one in the Chantry was innocent.
But after about 30 hours of nothing but whining, ****ing and moaning both Anders & Fenris had to die:bandit:

[Porenferser]

Jugo616 wrote...

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

So you support reallife terrorism (including murdering innocents), did I get that right?

[Vit246]

Ignore that statement. I suspect its just flamebait.

[Jugo616]

Modifié par Jugo616, 19 mai 2011 - 05:45 .

[Jugo616]

Porenferser wrote...

Jugo616 wrote...

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

So you support reallife terrorism (including murdering innocents), did I get that right?

Church burnings are not supposed to cause terror, therefore they are not terrorism. They are more like rioting. (To everyone and especialy administrators: This is not a suggestion to do mentioned things and is not supposed to spread religious hate, merely a statement of ones ideology.)

Modifié par Jugo616, 19 mai 2011 - 05:46 .

[wandaXmaximoff]

Jugo616 wrote...

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

Why?

[Beerfish]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

"Some times violence is necessary, that doesn't mean you go with as the first option. You don't want to do some foolish terror attack that causes people that were on your side to go over to opposition. The situation with Thrask shows that were Templars and Mages willing to work together for Mage rights. How many Templars with a similar view point will change their minds because of Ander's flat out stupid plan. I mean if he would have blown up Meredith, he would had the full support of the mages and half the Templars."

Yeah, too bad an apostate blood mage from Starkhaven that had been spared only by the efforts of Thrask killed poor old moderate Thrask. The epitome of showing that apostate mages on the loose are a true and real threat and the lame excuse that 'They are forced to do terrible things because of the mean templars!" does not hold water at all.

This ignores that some mages are being mistreated. Alain references in Act II that a templar comes into his room late at night and threatens him with tranquility if he tells anyone anything. Alain eludes to this in Act III as the reason that he joined Ser Thrask's initiative of renegade templars and mages. We also know that Anders' first love Karl was illegally made tranquil by the order of Ser Alrik, so it's not like people are imagining that there are abuses being committed against mages in the storyline.

It ignores none of it at all.  The starkhaven circle burned down under suspicious circumstances, the hero has the ability to be sympathetic to Grace and the few survivors after Decimus decides to kill Hawke.  So Decimus and Grace both go out of their way to kill Hawke and do kill Thrask, both potentially ardent mage supporters.  The mage supporters keep wanting people to totally ignore the litany of evil, crazy, dangerous deeds of all mages because some have been mistreated.  

There are so many cases of circle and non circle mages causing havock and killing mage supporters or fellow mages  (Good old Anders kills a defensless mage girl because he is still pissed off at Alrick....even after he is dead.) not to mention other innocents and some want to lay all of that blame on acts of the templars or the chantry.  It simply doesn't wash and mages would get a heck of a lot more sympathy if their most ardent supporters would ever actually acknowledge there is a real mage problem in and around kirkwall.....but they never do.

[Ottemis]

Yeah, romanced and then stabbed him. Couldn't condone blowing up a freaking building, specially because the revered mother was in there; I rather liked her and could emphasize with her position.
Misguided and over the top by Anders. And he definately didn't help the mages any in my book that way.

Modifié par Ottemis, 19 mai 2011 - 06:15 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

wandaXmaximoff wrote...

Jugo616 wrote...

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

Why?

Cults are bad m'kay.  Restricting people's civil liberties & judging them based on gender or sexual orientation is bad m'kay.
Indoctrinating children into cults using psychological torture about the horrors they'll suffer if they dont follow the cult is bad m'kay:P

Modifié par SmokeyNinjas, 19 mai 2011 - 07:31 .

[Black-Xero]

 I let him live.He destroyed the chantry,became a hero to my mage for stopping religious influence,continued to help me support the mages to get rid of the Templars.

[Silfren]

Didn't kill him.  I thought his actions were justified and necessary, if horrific.  As for any innocents he may have killed, I think given that Anders actually wanted to die and fully expected to, that having him live is a far better punishment.  It's more in line with the idea of justice, anyway.  Death is the easy way out.  

Still waiting for the rivalry ending with him to be fixed, as I think that ending is more tragic and satisfying.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

wandaXmaximoff wrote...

Jugo616 wrote...

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

Why?

Cults are bad m'kay.  Restricting people's civil liberties & judging them based on gender or sexual orientation is bad m'kay.
Indoctrinating children into cults using psychological torture about the horrors they'll suffer if they dont follow the cult is bad m'kay:P

Murder is worse.

[SmokeyNinjas]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

wandaXmaximoff wrote...

Jugo616 wrote...

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

Why?

Cults are bad m'kay.  Restricting people's civil liberties & judging them based on gender or sexual orientation is bad m'kay.
Indoctrinating children into cults using psychological torture about the horrors they'll suffer if they dont follow the cult is bad m'kay:P

Murder is worse.

Who's advocating murder?

[Rifneno]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Who's advocating murder?

Ooo, I know this one! Ser Karras!

[Bowie Hawkins]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Murder is worse.

Who's advocating murder?

Other than Anders and his supporters?

[Silfren]

CalJones wrote...

Indeed, I hope not. He survived my first three playthroughs (even if I was a bit shocked by the whole Chantry business first time around) because I played pro-mage and also romanced him. Fourth run was a templar run so I slipped him the knife, but I didn't enjoy doing so. I have to say I really disliked the pro-templar route, even if half the mages in Kirkwall are idiots.

On a fifth run again and Anders will live again. Even if you hate what he did, you can always take the view that forcing him to live with it is punishment enough (although, on the templar path, he'll die either way).

When the bugged rivalry ending is fixed, you can keep him alive even if you side with the templars, as far as I understand it. 

[Silfren]

Rifneno wrote...

I was only angry he didn't let me help.  Kill stealing bastard.  But yeah, the Chantry has abuses its power for about 999 years too long.  And may Elthina burn in hell.  Her negligence in refusing to make Meredith follow the Chantry's own frickin' laws is why things blew up both figuratively and literally.  It's only a shame Elthina wasn't mentally, physically, and sexually abused until she took her own life like so many mages under her "watch."  ****.  Have I mentioned lately how much I hate that harpy? 

Eh, she was old.  How dare you hold her responsible for not doing her job.:innocent:

[Silfren]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

I kill him on every playthrough. The murder knife was too good for him. I don't like hypocritical terrorists. He wants to improve the plight of mages? How'd that work out for Ella? Was blowing up The Chantry the best he could come up with?

I mean too bad he doesn't know any powerful figures that could aid the plight of mages. Maybe a Viscount candidate, Prince, and a King? Oh wait he does have access to those type people. He personally knows Hawke, Sebastian, and Alistair. Anders is the Thedas version of Osama Bin Laden mixed with the Unabomber. He commits the same acts he claims to revile and leaves manifestos around trying to explain his lunacy. I wish the Sten that The Arishok sent for Peatrice would have hit Anders up with the two shot special. Better yet, I wish Sebastian would come back and arrow snipe Anders if you spared him or let him go.

Yes, sure, because bin Laden attacked America so he's the only terrorist who is worth attention is the only terrorist the world has ever known, naturally he's the go-to example.  *sigh*

I'll repeat this as many times as necessary:  Anders is far more akin to John Brown of the American abolitionist movement than bin Laden.  Look him up.  

Now, if I could only be made to understand why people keep saying that Elthina was such a good and reasonable person.  For the life of me I can't see anything reasonable or good about allowing abuses to flourish on your watch.  You might as well be participating in the abuses yourself.

[Silfren]

wildrivr wrote...

besides i hate any church like organization in any shape or form, besides i swear you never hear any good come from them.

Oh, sure you do.  Militant religio-political institutions have a long and vaunted history of doing a good thing here, a good thing there, so they can point to it in the attempts to distract you from the mountain of bad. 

The Chantry's got that in spades.

[Silfren]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Anders is just as bad zealot as any of the templars in the game, if not worse. But I guess if his cause is not a religious one it's OK or something.

No, it's not because his cause is not religious.  It's because his cause is actually just.  He wants to emanicipate his people. 

This idea that some of us just have an innate contempt for religion just because, so we give everything else a free pass but condemn religious causes?  Is just plain disingenuous.  Speaking for myself, and I suspect most other "anti-religious" people take the same view, I hate any Chantry-like institution that uses religion as both an excuse for injustice and a tool for perpetuating the same. 

I could just as easiliy argue that the people who make comments like "But I guess if his cause is not a religious one it's OK ot something" thus implying that people like myself are just fundamentally anti-religion, are themselves the sort who automatically give religion a free pass.  But the issue isn't that simple, is it?

[Dante Angelo]

What Anders did was done because there was no other option. People had basically just sat around and said that mages should be free but nobody ever did anything about it.Nobody else was willing to do it not even Anders was willing to do it originally

[SmokeyNinjas]

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

wandaXmaximoff wrote...

Jugo616 wrote...

I support church burnings in real life and I support them in games too.

Why?

Cults are bad m'kay.  Restricting people's civil liberties & judging them based on gender or sexual orientation is bad m'kay.
Indoctrinating children into cults using psychological torture about the horrors they'll suffer if they dont follow the cult is bad m'kay:P

Murder is worse.

Who's advocating murder?

Other than Anders and his supporters?

Yes because my question there is clearly about the game:?

[Silfren]

Porenferser wrote...

Everyone who has a REAL sense of Justice.

Meaning what?  Your sense of justice is the only real one?  Nice.

If you see what Anders did as a horrible crime, it strikes me that having him live is a greater delivery of justice.  He wants to die, and giving him what he wants is in effect giving him the easy way out.

You could argue that killing him is the safest thing to do to prevent him from killing anyone else, but that's an altogether different argument from whether or not killing him is justice.

[Jugo616]

Oh... I love this. "Murder is worse" so we let the old system remain. It has murder and rape, but murder is evil so we let chantry murder and rape just to awoid murder. Makes perfect sence.

Burning a church is a symbolic act in the defiance of the ancient system of oppresion which caused more death and suffering, through out the history, then all other reasons combined and still is a major influence of evil today. It is not directed against believers, it is directed against the religious systems.