113 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesX]

Clonedzero wrote...

Hawke however is a real character, with a personality you can morph and shape, with motivations and goals.

I think that is just a case of personal identification.  I had the exactly opposite reaction to Hawke.  I find his life predictable and his story boring.  Warden's story I find much more interesting.  I guess it is because on the Warden's shoulders lies the fate of thousands of lives and his actions determins the course of history - as a natural extension.  I also find the origin stories (e.g. the 6 starting backgrounds) more interesting for the Wardens.

Hawke's life consists of meandering and lack of focus and depending on how you play him it ends up even worse.  For 10 years he achieved next to nothing, and cannot even reconile to weak factions together when he is the lauded champion of Krikwall for 3 @%#&( years.  For all his applauded skill and power he is a usless social figure.  Even the whole "the only person that can put it together" is pretty non-sensical.   He couldn't put Kirkwall together in 3 years + Act 3, how is he going to put the world together?

All these are personal perferrences however.  Just wanted to point out the opposite view points do exist.

As for who is better than who, well I am pretty sure the Warden is better than Hawke - but like Bioware said, that depends on the writer, since it is obvious they do not follow reason or precedence

But at least one thing is for sure.  Warden achieved what he needed to Achieve.  Hawke achieved next to nothing.

Modifié par JamesX, 18 mars 2011 - 12:07 .

[Zalocx]

I liked Hawke more as a character than the Warden

Neither felt like "My: character though, speaking as a P&P RPer. It was the choice of "Bioware's character they let me play" or "Choice between several Bioware characters they let me play". Sure there was more diversity in the Origins but they weren't what *I* had created for *my* character. So in the end it comes down to predetermined character vrs. slightly less predetermined character and Hawke is the better character IMO.

[Invalidcode]

Just a group fight to the death and nothing else matters? Warden's group will win but with very very heavy loses.

[Arrtis]

Zenstrive wrote...

Can Warden do AOE everytime he swings two handed weapons? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden do crashing charge 10 feet to the enemy he targets? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden smirk and snark while saving the world? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden talk? No? Hawke wins.
Hawke is full of wins. Warden is old school glorified camera dolly.

But...the warden could be in a foursome...so warden wins?
the warden saved a country while hawke saved a city and could do nothing to stop a disaster...warden wins.
Warden could become king/queen while ahwke is stuck as champion....warden wins.
Warden had a ton more choices as to what to say....so warden wins.
The warden could ahve a god baby...or multiple babies....while so far hawke has none...warden wins....
The warden could be mroe than 1 race.....
The warden travels around more.....
anymore?

[errant_knight]

I like both characters, but I felt more distanced from Hawke--conversation and third person cutscenes, probably.
Both were equally badass.

Modifié par errant_knight, 18 mars 2011 - 12:21 .

[JamesX]

Arrtis wrote...
Warden could become king/queen while ahwke is stuck as champion....warden wins.

This is actually not true

Warden is Prince Consort, which is not the same as a King or Queen
Hawke can become vicount if he sided with Templars

Zenstrive wrote...

Can Warden do AOE everytime he swings two handed weapons? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden do crashing charge 10 feet to the enemy he targets? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden smirk and snark while saving the world? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden talk? No? Hawke wins.
Hawke is full of wins. Warden is old school glorified camera dolly. 

But I hope the other person realize, if you put Warden in DA2 he will ALSO have AOE attacks and everything else Hawke have... (Since Templar, Berserker, and Reaver) were normal DA1 specialities anyways....

And the Warden may also be Arcane Warrior (if he is mage) but not have Force Mage.

Not to mention Ultimately Warden can be Shapeshifter and turn into a dragon (eventually), while Hawke unless a DLC is released never will (since he doesn't have access to the speciality).

So talking about Mechanics as support for who is better is kinda ... well dumb.  Since Mechanically Warden wins anyways.

But one area Warden definitely loses to Hawke.  Hawke supports DirectX 11, Warden is only DirectX 9.

But to balance that Warden getes 70+fps, Hawke only gest 25-40-ish, so I guess we still end up with a tie.

Modifié par JamesX, 18 mars 2011 - 12:26 .

[arnett001]

I definitely felt more attached to my warden than Hawke. Partly due to having such a myriad of different adventures with my companions. It seemed like DA2 was rushing me the entire time. Plus, at the end of Witch Hunt-- my warden could take on Hawke and his team. I would summon a poisonous spider, whip out daisy cutter and my dagger of choice, and take hit after hit with my golem shell armor. I was BA. Plus, I still want to know what happened to my warden after he went through the Eluvian with Morrigan. DAO just seemed to...I dunno, grab my attention. My warden's dog was way cooler as a full party member too. DA2 will hopefully become more interesting after future DLC, but I still prefer the good old fashioned Hero story of DAO.

[Malsumis]

Warden>Hawke

No contest.

[Dean_the_Young]

Kemor wrote...
As for my Wardens (all 4 of them), they were mine from the very beginning of their Origin story! I could kill connor or save him using different means, I could be with the dalish, the werewolves, or try to find another solution, I could wipe out the mages or try to find a compromise, I could do tons of different things in Ozrimmar or Denerim, I HAD CHOICES all along!

No, you didn't. You had the illusion of choice: what you chose never mattered to the plot of the game.

None of what you mentioned mattered to the story's progression, or structure. You could never NOT fight the Blight. You could never NOT do the treaty quests, and the results from either were effectively the same no matter which name went into the block. You could never ally yourself with Loghain, or against Eamon. No matter what you wanted to do, 90% of the game was always the same regardless. All that really differed were the epilogue slides... and there's more than enough ground in DA2 to justify a variety of epilogue slides in and of themselves.

[TheBlackBaron]

I think they're about equal, honestly. I wound up loving Hawke far, far more than I ever thought I would, but you can never escape that you're basically just watching a movie with some influence over how what happens in it. The Warden, on the other hand, was for all intents and purposes me.

The upshot of all this is that while Hawke may feel more alive, you've got greater control over the Warden. Both styles have their strengths and weaknesses.

[Arrtis]

hey hey hey.
Golems helpped quite a bit in the final battle my first time through.

[hypothead]

Malsumis wrote...

Warden>Hawke

No contest.

I agree.

[Tainan7509]

Hawke >>>>>>>>^20000 Warden

[Mykel54]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Kemor wrote...
As for my Wardens (all 4 of them), they were mine from the very beginning of their Origin story! I could kill connor or save him using different means, I could be with the dalish, the werewolves, or try to find another solution, I could wipe out the mages or try to find a compromise, I could do tons of different things in Ozrimmar or Denerim, I HAD CHOICES all along!

No, you didn't. You had the illusion of choice: what you chose never mattered to the plot of the game.

None of what you mentioned mattered to the story's progression, or structure. You could never NOT fight the Blight. You could never NOT do the treaty quests, and the results from either were effectively the same no matter which name went into the block. You could never ally yourself with Loghain, or against Eamon. No matter what you wanted to do, 90% of the game was always the same regardless. All that really differed were the epilogue slides... and there's more than enough ground in DA2 to justify a variety of epilogue slides in and of themselves.

Even if the main plot was linear as in "you are a grey warden and you have to defeat the blight", the how you do it was pretty much your choice. The warden had a big effect on the world of thedas, mainly in ferelden, by helping certain groups or making certain choices (destroying ashes, picking kings, killing elves, annuling the circle?) that affected the world. Then in the endgame you got another important decision with Morrigan, that sets the stage for future games. Now compare that to DA2 where the only thing that slightly matters is if you side with the templars and Hawke become Viscount, as well the fate of your sibling, other than that Anders has a lot more importance than Hawke. The decisions that Hawke makes are mostly related to sidequests, none of them change the setting as the decisions of the warden did.

[Zenstrive]

JamesX wrote...

Zenstrive wrote...

Can Warden do AOE everytime he swings two handed weapons? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden do crashing charge 10 feet to the enemy he targets? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden smirk and snark while saving the world? No? Hawke wins.
Can Warden talk? No? Hawke wins.
Hawke is full of wins. Warden is old school glorified camera dolly. 

But I hope the other person realize, if you put Warden in DA2 he will ALSO have AOE attacks and everything else Hawke have... (Since Templar, Berserker, and Reaver) were normal DA1 specialities anyways....

And the Warden may also be Arcane Warrior (if he is mage) but not have Force Mage.

Not to mention Ultimately Warden can be Shapeshifter and turn into a dragon (eventually), while Hawke unless a DLC is released never will (since he doesn't have access to the speciality).

So talking about Mechanics as support for who is better is kinda ... well dumb.  Since Mechanically Warden wins anyways.

But one area Warden definitely loses to Hawke.  Hawke supports DirectX 11, Warden is only DirectX 9.

But to balance that Warden getes 70+fps, Hawke only gest 25-40-ish, so I guess we still end up with a tie.

If you force Warden capability into Hawke's world, how come I can't do the same ?

If Hawke goes to ferelden, he will have with two handed sword AOE, can throw away grenades without any skills required, can poison his swords without needing to learn how to make poisons, may dance with his staffs while kicking asses,  can stack three sustained abilities together, and may be able to turn into dragon while smirking and snarking all the way. 

And he can have FOUR team mates !

[Grisson]

Hawke can have his dog with him as well as companions. That right there is full of win for me.

[King Killoth]

I really connected with my Warden and only a little whit Hawke. My warden was a deep and complex dwarf from dust town who rose up to Paragon. he was the first to command a golem army in over a thousand years. had a horde of werewolves cutting down darkspawn. lead an army of mages. was one of few dwarfs to not only enter the fade but kick its ass. he killed not one but two high dragons ((flemith and the high dragon)) had his way with an elf a human and a witch. knocked up the witch Morrigan. united fereldon under the joined rule of Alistar and Anora. turned his most hated enemy into his strongest ally. and utterly destroyed the archdemon trapping the essence of the old god into his unborn child took over Vigels keep and kicked both the Architect and the mothers ass and combined clans. cleared the deep roads with the aid of the fereldon army. killed the Nightmare golem and got the love of his life in the end before walking into a magic mirror to the future.

Hawke ran awasy from the horde. lost his sister and his mother.  betraied by his brother. fought both templars and mages at nearly every turn. kicked the Arashok's big gray butt. was named champion. killed the mages and the templars and was named Ruler of kirkwall.. not as bad ass as the warden.

Modifié par King Killoth, 18 mars 2011 - 03:40 .

[Clonedzero]

Kemor wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Hawke however is a real character, with a personality you can morph and shape, with motivations and goals. i wanted him to escape the blight, i wanted him to rise out of poverty, i wanted him to have a better life. i cared about his plight and his family issues. i wanted him to have a happy ending. i compeltely sympathized and cared about him. he was a fantastic character. mine was a sarcastic smartass mage. it was great, i actually FELT like he was a real character having meaningful interactions with the world and other characters, not just some blank robot.

and hawke would totally kick the wardens ass, he'd say something funny while doing it too. (at least mine would)

That's good for you but personally I DID NOT want to do any of the things Hawke was forcing me to make him do. I didn't want him to stay in Kirkwall while a frikkin Blight was happening, I didn't want him to murder hundreds of people for money so that he could get into the city, I didn't want him to buy some stupid mansion and silly clothes once he got the money, I didn't want him to get involved with the Qunari, or with the Mages/Templars. The only thing I could do and that I felt happy about was actually kill the sister. Man that was satisfying..What an ungrateful betraying **** that one.

As for my Wardens (all 4 of them), they were mine from the very beginning of their Origin story! I could kill connor or save him using different means, I could be with the dalish, the werewolves, or try to find another solution, I could wipe out the mages or try to find a compromise, I could do tons of different things in Ozrimmar or Denerim, I HAD CHOICES all along!

i honestly felt like my choices mattered more in DA2. i mean you got more "big choices" in DA:O but they never ACTUALLY change anything except the unit type you get for the final battle and an epilogue slide. personally epilogue slides are very unsatisfying to me. yes hawke doesnt have alot of choice along the main story path (neither does the warden really) but theres so much other stuff that you cna change and effect between the acts and actually SEE the difference. i find choices that actually change things to be far more interesting than "bigger choices" that change a slide at the end of the game.

like there is NO difference between bhelen and harrowmont except for i think the prize item he gives you at the end. with bhelen you'd expect to see more surface dwarves and trade? right? nope. do dwarves start acting more traditional when harrowmont takes over? nope. its exactly the same. so that choice has zero impact on the game making me not care about it anymore.

the little choices are the ones that matter, let a blood mage live in act 1 and they can tell you about some evil books to destroy when they'r trying to redeem themselves. kill another guy in act one and maybe he'll return later for revenge.

DA2 may have less control in the main story, but the main story is significantly better than the generic mess that DA:O had.

[Pileyourbodies]

The warden might be a bit more of a badass and has some gameplay mechanics on his side(Broken mages!) I like hawke more because hawke is voiced and hilarious.

[M_arc]

Hawke > The Warden, smartass Hawke is too awesome to be ignored

DA:O companions > all other companions in Awakening, Witch Hunt and DA2 combined

I enjoyed the Fenris vs Anders discussion but nothing can ever beat Alistair vs Morrigan, the most kickass partymembers ever. Oh and if you throw in Shale as well you have team sarcasme.

[Pileyourbodies]

M_arc you're making an exception for Varric right? that guys just too awesome...

[Clonedzero]

M_arc wrote...

Hawke > The Warden, smartass Hawke is too awesome to be ignored

DA:O companions > all other companions in Awakening, Witch Hunt and DA2 combined

I enjoyed the Fenris vs Anders discussion but nothing can ever beat Alistair vs Morrigan, the most kickass partymembers ever. Oh and if you throw in Shale as well you have team sarcasme.

i was with you when you were talking about how alistair and morrigan were still unbeat in terms of awesome, but then you mentioned shale the super overrated  HK-47 ripoff that tries WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too hard and you lost me.

i mean i loved HK-47 and shale seriously just comes off as a cheap knock-off of him. not to mention the constant STOMPING NOISE AS SHE WALKED UGHH

[M_arc]

Yeah Varric was awesome and Isabela's sex comments were just hilarious!
But I do think that Leliana, for an example, was a much better character. She has real goals, inner struggles, a somewhat "dark" past. She's a character with great depth. Isabela also had depth but in another way

Haha yeah okey forget about Shale, the guy (girl) was DLC anyways, although that bird smashing scene was briljant!

Modifié par M_arc, 18 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Mykel54 wrote...

Even if the main plot was linear as in "you are a grey warden and you have to defeat the blight", the how you do it was pretty much your choice. The warden had a big effect on the world of thedas, mainly in ferelden, by helping certain groups or making certain choices (destroying ashes, picking kings, killing elves, annuling the circle?) that affected the world. Then in the endgame you got another important decision with Morrigan, that sets the stage for future games. Now compare that to DA2 where the only thing that slightly matters is if you side with the templars and Hawke become Viscount, as well the fate of your sibling, other than that Anders has a lot more importance than Hawke. The decisions that Hawke makes are mostly related to sidequests, none of them change the setting as the decisions of the warden did.

No, how you defeated the Blight was pretty much unchanging. The difference between elves and werewolves was different colored round pegs, not a radically changing storyline. Nothing in Origins came, say, half as close to the plot altering consequences you could have in Fallout: Vegas, in which your entire endgame changed, as well as most of the available options for questions and interactions.

Hawke might not have had an epilogue slide ot list the changes he made, but the changes you could make had far more relevance to your own story than the 'big decisions' in Origins. The Warden's own influences were nearly always bound within Ferelden anyway, not 'the world': the difference between mine ownership in Kirkwall and whether a certain tribe of Dalish survived or was replaced with werewolves is, to be frank, negligable to 'the world.'

Whether the Arishok was slain, the context and fate of the Kirkwall Circle during it's annullment... those have far greater world relevance.

Yes, Hawke's story was of a narrower scope in geography. That's rather inherent when one story is about an entire nation facing a global extinction event and the other is based upon one person rising up to prominance in a city state. Don't confuse the scale for the availability for choices, however, or the relevance of those choices.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 18 mars 2011 - 04:06 .

[specter7237]

I think some earlier posts hit the nail on the head. In Origins I had to come up with motivations for the Warden's decisions. In DA2 they were already there. To each his own, I preferred Hawke.