...sorry, that's all I got.
I still think the Warden> Hawke
Débuté par
crimsontotem
, mars 15 2011 10:48
#76
Posté 14 avril 2012 - 03:05
tomorrowstation
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My Warden and My Hawke would totally make out.
...sorry, that's all I got.
...sorry, that's all I got.
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 14 avril 2012 - 06:49
prizm123
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my Hawkes could defeat any of my Wardens....except maybe Crasus, he was a badass...
the crew they rolled with were about even
Leliana negates Isabela since they would probably be in bed somewhere
Morrigan would probably annihilate Anders, and Merril would probably do the same to Wynne
Aveline and Alistair would fight to a standstill
i do give the edge to Varric over Sten though
i would also think Ohgren would beat either Carver or Bethany, but not Fenris-that would probably end with them killing each other
the crew they rolled with were about even
Leliana negates Isabela since they would probably be in bed somewhere
Morrigan would probably annihilate Anders, and Merril would probably do the same to Wynne
Aveline and Alistair would fight to a standstill
i do give the edge to Varric over Sten though
i would also think Ohgren would beat either Carver or Bethany, but not Fenris-that would probably end with them killing each other
#78
Posté 15 avril 2012 - 01:55
Deniz87
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If you ignore the gameplay-mechanics (or simply put the Warden in DA2), then Commander Grey would beat the crap out of Champion Hawke.. seriously guys. And I'm sure that Sten would beat the Arishok.
#79
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 11:10
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I absolutely prefer my Warden,because I had at least SOME control over who she was,where she came from...even though the game made the most important choices for her.Well,you need some kind of narrative framework,but still...For example,in DAO I would have liked the option to waltz into Denerim after Ostagar,to try and have a battle of wits with Loghain straight away,not let him get carried away in his (not completely baseless) paranoia and temporary lack of clairvoyance,siccing half of Ferelden on me.
If you gave yourself up,he might have started to wonder why you would take such a risk.
It is possible he would still not have been amenable to reason,but it is unfortunate I never got that chance,for example.
With Hawke,I actually felt I am just controlling a predefined character,did not have much of a connection there.
It makes me wonder...why do we dislike either unfortunate protagonist for what is clearly a narrative mistake?It is not the Warden`s or Hawke`s fault that you could not connect or care.
Another thing I never understood is how can people hate their Shepards or Wardens - you get to create them from scratch and form their personalities...why would you genuinely roleplay someone you hate?Roleplaying evil for fun is different,though,but you get my meaning.
If you gave yourself up,he might have started to wonder why you would take such a risk.
It is possible he would still not have been amenable to reason,but it is unfortunate I never got that chance,for example.
With Hawke,I actually felt I am just controlling a predefined character,did not have much of a connection there.
It makes me wonder...why do we dislike either unfortunate protagonist for what is clearly a narrative mistake?It is not the Warden`s or Hawke`s fault that you could not connect or care.
Another thing I never understood is how can people hate their Shepards or Wardens - you get to create them from scratch and form their personalities...why would you genuinely roleplay someone you hate?Roleplaying evil for fun is different,though,but you get my meaning.
Modifié par Begemotka, 16 avril 2012 - 11:13 .
#80
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 04:22
Mokthar
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No, you don't, you really don'tBegemotka wrote...
Another thing I never understood is how can people hate their Shepards or Wardens - you get to create them from scratch and form their personalities...why would you genuinely roleplay someone you hate?Roleplaying evil for fun is different,though,but you get my meaning.
A Human Noble is still son of Bryce Cousland
the Dalish Elf is still Tamlem's best friend
the Dwarven Noble is still Endrin's second
That's the main reason true RP players doesn't think great of the Warden is that they understand he is just another generic character
anyway, what's great about the Warden is his/her influence and allies
and about Hawke is his/her raw power
on a duel, Hawke would defeat the Warden
but on the battlefield, the Warden's party would do better than Hawke's friends
#81
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 04:48
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Mokthar wrote...
No, you don't, you really don'tBegemotka wrote...
Another thing I never understood is how can people hate their Shepards or Wardens - you get to create them from scratch and form their personalities...why would you genuinely roleplay someone you hate?Roleplaying evil for fun is different,though,but you get my meaning.
A Human Noble is still son of Bryce Cousland
the Dalish Elf is still Tamlem's best friend
the Dwarven Noble is still Endrin's second
That's the main reason true RP players doesn't think great of the Warden is that they understand he is just another generic character
anyway, what's great about the Warden is his/her influence and allies
and about Hawke is his/her raw power
on a duel, Hawke would defeat the Warden
but on the battlefield, the Warden's party would do better than Hawke's friends
That is true that the Warden also has preset backgrounds...but not just ONE! I at least have the illusion of choice.I can be Aeducan,Cousland,Amell,Tabris,and the list goes on. With a DA2 analogy,it is like : "you are Cousland (Hawke),and thats it."
I do think it is useless to seriously speculate as to which would beat the***** out of which. For fun,sure.But it is subjective.
And as a last note : I would like to see how is it possible to have a hero with no background.Even if you are the "Nameless Hero",you still had parents,but whatever...
I understand what you were trying to say,but I would appreciate if you would not insult me by saying I do not get the concept of roleplaying because I am not a "real RPG player" - this is not a contest,and to be honest,I do not care if I classify as a real RPG player or not.
I do not remember insulting you or anyone else in my previous post.If I inadvertently have,I apologise.
#82
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 04:53
slashthedragon
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Begemotka wrote...
And as a last note : I would like to see how is it possible to have a hero with no background.Even if you are the "Nameless Hero",you still had parents,but whatever...
I understand what you were trying to say,but I would appreciate if you would not insult me by saying I do not get the concept of roleplaying because I am not a "real RPG player" - this is not a contest,and to be honest,I do not care if I classify as a real RPG player or not.
I do not remember insulting you or anyone else in my previous post.If I inadvertently have,I apologise.
As to "Nameless Hero", I prefer it when a game doesn't give me a preset history or family, just a blank slate that I can fill in as I wish. I can make up my own background--if I have family, if I ran away to pursue the life of being a hero, etc. You will get a bit of background though if there is race selection, but just on where you were most likely born and/or raised and how your race is viewed by others.
#83
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:14
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slashthedragon wrote...
Begemotka wrote...
And as a last note : I would like to see how is it possible to have a hero with no background.Even if you are the "Nameless Hero",you still had parents,but whatever...
I understand what you were trying to say,but I would appreciate if you would not insult me by saying I do not get the concept of roleplaying because I am not a "real RPG player" - this is not a contest,and to be honest,I do not care if I classify as a real RPG player or not.
I do not remember insulting you or anyone else in my previous post.If I inadvertently have,I apologise.
As to "Nameless Hero", I prefer it when a game doesn't give me a preset history or family, just a blank slate that I can fill in as I wish. I can make up my own background--if I have family, if I ran away to pursue the life of being a hero, etc. You will get a bit of background though if there is race selection, but just on where you were most likely born and/or raised and how your race is viewed by others.
Yes,that sort of "fill in the blanks for yourself" approach is great (like in Morrowind,more or less).
With Shepard and Hawke,you got only ONE preset family name and history-but I digress.I was just thinking out loud,trying to determine what was it exactly that made me feel disconnected from poor Hawke:happy: and why not Shepard.Same thing to some degree,no?Still cant put my finger on it.
#84
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:20
slashthedragon
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Begemotka wrote...
slashthedragon wrote...
Begemotka wrote...
And as a last note : I would like to see how is it possible to have a hero with no background.Even if you are the "Nameless Hero",you still had parents,but whatever...
I understand what you were trying to say,but I would appreciate if you would not insult me by saying I do not get the concept of roleplaying because I am not a "real RPG player" - this is not a contest,and to be honest,I do not care if I classify as a real RPG player or not.
I do not remember insulting you or anyone else in my previous post.If I inadvertently have,I apologise.
As to "Nameless Hero", I prefer it when a game doesn't give me a preset history or family, just a blank slate that I can fill in as I wish. I can make up my own background--if I have family, if I ran away to pursue the life of being a hero, etc. You will get a bit of background though if there is race selection, but just on where you were most likely born and/or raised and how your race is viewed by others.
Yes,that sort of "fill in the blanks for yourself" approach is great (like in Morrowind,more or less).
With Shepard and Hawke,you got only ONE preset family name and history-but I digress.I was just thinking out loud,trying to determine what was it exactly that made me feel disconnected from poor Hawke:happy: and why not Shepard.Same thing to some degree,no?Still cant put my finger on it.
I think the disconnect comes from both the predetermined background (Hawke's family, place of birth, even background--father being a mage) and the fact that the paraphrasing was awful, plus auto dialogue you had no control over. Voiced PC is also a factor for me feeling disconnected.
If DA:3 had a' fill in the blanks' PC I'd be over the moon.
#85
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:32
Dessalines
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I was disconnected more from Warden than Hawke. and I hate the "Nameless Hero" I love how in Bethesda, you do all these things and then disappear in the history. You normally end the game, being the leader of every major faction and saving the entire world, but next game none of that matters. You don't even get a statute of your old character. It is all right, because you can be the leader of all the factions in the game, and most npcs act the same way.
Really I believe that other companies need to work on their stories.
Really I believe that other companies need to work on their stories.
#86
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:48
slashthedragon
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Dessalines wrote...
I was disconnected more from Warden than Hawke. and I hate the "Nameless Hero" I love how in Bethesda, you do all these things and then disappear in the history. You normally end the game, being the leader of every major faction and saving the entire world, but next game none of that matters. You don't even get a statute of your old character. It is all right, because you can be the leader of all the factions in the game, and most npcs act the same way.
Really I believe that other companies need to work on their stories.
I mean Nameless Hero (or rather Person) in the beginning, no at the end. And nameless only until you name him/her. Unless I read your reply wrong?
#87
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:52
Lazy Jer
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Hmm...let's evesdrop on a conversation between the two:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hawke: So...warden...is that your real name?
Warden: No, my real name is (insert name here), but everyone just calls me "Warden" because they can't actually say my name due to the current limitations of game mechanics.
Hawke: Hmmm...that may explain why everyone just calls me "Hawke" and never calls me (Hawke's first name here). Interesting.
Warden: So anyway why have you called me here, brother of Bethany?"
Hawke: You know(...or knew) Bethany?
Warden: No.
Hawke: Why'd you say her name then?
Warden: Ehh...it's a reference to another game...you probably wouldn't understand.
Hawke: Huh...be that as it may we're here to debate which one of us is...say...why can't I hear your voice. It's somewhat of a bother to have to read your subtitles all the time.
Warden: Well since they made my race selectable in the game they didn't give me a voice actor or actress. Again...limitations of the medium.
Hawke: Well...hmmm...perhaps you can tell me all of the reasons why you think you're greater then me while I read Anders' Manifesto again.
Warden: Well it's simple, really. I believe that as someone who has had to face a blight I've been put in a possition of greater responsibility then you have. It's a simple matter of the weight of the task put upon me. I was tasked with saving all of Ferelden, and by extension the...entire...wait, if you're reading that manifesto how can you read my subtitled speech?
Hawke: Hmmm...nothing to say?
Warden: I do have something to say, you're just not reading it.
Hawke: Can I take that silence to mean that you have no argument?
Warden: You cheating bastard!
Hawke: Tell you what if you think you're in any way shape or form that you're greater then I, just say so.
Warden: So! I'm saying so! So so so! Read my text! Read my text!!!!!
Hawke: Well..it's settled then. I'll be at the Blooming Rose if you need me.
Warden: Forget this. I'm going back to Ferelden.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So there ya go. Hawke wins the debate by blatently cheating.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hawke: So...warden...is that your real name?
Warden: No, my real name is (insert name here), but everyone just calls me "Warden" because they can't actually say my name due to the current limitations of game mechanics.
Hawke: Hmmm...that may explain why everyone just calls me "Hawke" and never calls me (Hawke's first name here). Interesting.
Warden: So anyway why have you called me here, brother of Bethany?"
Hawke: You know(...or knew) Bethany?
Warden: No.
Hawke: Why'd you say her name then?
Warden: Ehh...it's a reference to another game...you probably wouldn't understand.
Hawke: Huh...be that as it may we're here to debate which one of us is...say...why can't I hear your voice. It's somewhat of a bother to have to read your subtitles all the time.
Warden: Well since they made my race selectable in the game they didn't give me a voice actor or actress. Again...limitations of the medium.
Hawke: Well...hmmm...perhaps you can tell me all of the reasons why you think you're greater then me while I read Anders' Manifesto again.
Warden: Well it's simple, really. I believe that as someone who has had to face a blight I've been put in a possition of greater responsibility then you have. It's a simple matter of the weight of the task put upon me. I was tasked with saving all of Ferelden, and by extension the...entire...wait, if you're reading that manifesto how can you read my subtitled speech?
Hawke: Hmmm...nothing to say?
Warden: I do have something to say, you're just not reading it.
Hawke: Can I take that silence to mean that you have no argument?
Warden: You cheating bastard!
Hawke: Tell you what if you think you're in any way shape or form that you're greater then I, just say so.
Warden: So! I'm saying so! So so so! Read my text! Read my text!!!!!
Hawke: Well..it's settled then. I'll be at the Blooming Rose if you need me.
Warden: Forget this. I'm going back to Ferelden.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So there ya go. Hawke wins the debate by blatently cheating.
Modifié par Lazy Jer, 16 avril 2012 - 05:54 .
#88
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:55
slashthedragon
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Lazy Jer wrote...
*snip*
hahah! Brilliant.
But I do think there is a way around the name issue, it's cheap, but...
Do like they did in FFX, have the name you chose show up in the subtitles but don't have the
NPCs ever say it.
#89
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:58
Guest_Begemotka_*
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Well,perhaps we could start out as a "fill in the blanks" character and still have our decisions leave their mark on the gameworld ...but then again,not everyone likes the nameless hero,either,as Dessalines pointed out.
Bethesda always does away with its previous protagonists and NPCs in order to have narrative and artistic freedom with the next TES title.No carried over choices,no import bugs to worry about,just separate stories set in their world - at the cost of interpersonal relationships and awesome companions,in which Bioware excels.I do not play Bethesda games anymore BTW,for this very reason.
I suppose this is the direction BW was trying to take the DA series to have more creative freedom,but they forgot that when you get attached to your PC and companions,and the sequels are set in the same world in a parallel timeline,many people tend to expect tie-ins with previous stories and cameos - and there you have your problem and the divided fanbase.
I am inclined to think this is the reason for the Previous Protagonist Attachment Syndrome (hereafter PPAS) many players suffer from,and is,at least in part,Bioware`s fault,for creating such endearing characters.
Bioware,this was a compliment.Not a joke.
Bethesda always does away with its previous protagonists and NPCs in order to have narrative and artistic freedom with the next TES title.No carried over choices,no import bugs to worry about,just separate stories set in their world - at the cost of interpersonal relationships and awesome companions,in which Bioware excels.I do not play Bethesda games anymore BTW,for this very reason.
I suppose this is the direction BW was trying to take the DA series to have more creative freedom,but they forgot that when you get attached to your PC and companions,and the sequels are set in the same world in a parallel timeline,many people tend to expect tie-ins with previous stories and cameos - and there you have your problem and the divided fanbase.
I am inclined to think this is the reason for the Previous Protagonist Attachment Syndrome (hereafter PPAS) many players suffer from,and is,at least in part,Bioware`s fault,for creating such endearing characters.
Bioware,this was a compliment.Not a joke.
#90
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 05:59
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@Lazy Jer : This made my day. Thank you,kind Ser.I mean Jer. 
)
)
#91
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:08
Lazy Jer
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slashthedragon wrote...
hahah! Brilliant.
But I do think there is a way around the name issue, it's cheap, but...
Do like they did in FFX, have the name you chose show up in the subtitles but don't have the
NPCs ever say it.
Thank you. Both for the compliment and snipping my post. I've been gaming longer then I care to admit, so the name issue and such really doesn't bother me. I was just in kind of a silly mood.
#92
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:20
Mokthar
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I am sorry, I was referring to the the old P&P RP game when I said "true RP", anyone that used to play it knows that one would never be able to roleplay properly on a "videogame", I didn't meant to offend you, sorry againBegemotka wrote...
Mokthar wrote...
No, you don't, you really don'tBegemotka wrote...
Another thing I never understood is how can people hate their Shepards or Wardens - you get to create them from scratch and form their personalities...why would you genuinely roleplay someone you hate?Roleplaying evil for fun is different,though,but you get my meaning.
A Human Noble is still son of Bryce Cousland
the Dalish Elf is still Tamlem's best friend
the Dwarven Noble is still Endrin's second
That's the main reason true RP players doesn't think great of the Warden is that they understand he is just another generic character
anyway, what's great about the Warden is his/her influence and allies
and about Hawke is his/her raw power
on a duel, Hawke would defeat the Warden
but on the battlefield, the Warden's party would do better than Hawke's friends
That is true that the Warden also has preset backgrounds...but not just ONE! I at least have the illusion of choice.I can be Aeducan,Cousland,Amell,Tabris,and the list goes on. With a DA2 analogy,it is like : "you are Cousland (Hawke),and thats it."
I do think it is useless to seriously speculate as to which would beat the***** out of which. For fun,sure.But it is subjective.
And as a last note : I would like to see how is it possible to have a hero with no background.Even if you are the "Nameless Hero",you still had parents,but whatever...
I understand what you were trying to say,but I would appreciate if you would not insult me by saying I do not get the concept of roleplaying because I am not a "real RPG player" - this is not a contest,and to be honest,I do not care if I classify as a real RPG player or not.
I do not remember insulting you or anyone else in my previous post.If I inadvertently have,I apologise.
IMO, DA:O should have began with you arriving at Ostagar with Duncan, so you could fill the background with whatever you had in mind.
#93
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:28
slashthedragon
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Mokthar wrote...
I am sorry, I was referring to the the old P&P RP game when I said "true RP", anyone that used to play it knows that one would never be able to roleplay properly on a "videogame", I didn't meant to offend you, sorry again
IMO, DA:O should have began with you arriving at Ostagar with Duncan, so you could fill the background with whatever you had in mind.
Who were you reffering to (sorry too many quotes in there)? If me, there was no offense.
I like the idea you just mentioned.
#94
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:31
tankdogg937
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I might agree if they didn't make the Warden a mute. Something about Hawke's suave voice that gives him the edge IMO. As for the companions it would be a mixed bag for me....
My ideal companions:
Alistair
Leliana
Morrigan
Wynne (For healing skills only. A little too old to be adventuring.)
Varric/Oghren (Cancels each other out. I'd love to have either or both.)
Isabela
Aveline
Fenris
Don't care about:
Bethany/Carver
Zevran
Anders
Sebastian
Sten
Merrill
Dogs
My ideal companions:
Alistair
Leliana
Morrigan
Wynne (For healing skills only. A little too old to be adventuring.)
Varric/Oghren (Cancels each other out. I'd love to have either or both.)
Isabela
Aveline
Fenris
Don't care about:
Bethany/Carver
Zevran
Anders
Sebastian
Sten
Merrill
Dogs
#95
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:32
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@Mokhtar : In which case I am sorry for having been hypersensitive,perhaps I have overreacted.
Please accept my apologies,and thank you for clarifying what you meant. :happy:
Please accept my apologies,and thank you for clarifying what you meant. :happy:
#96
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:32
Mokthar
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Anyway, the game is called Dragon Age: Origins, not Dragon Age: Races =/
I never get why the game is called Origins, they are the least importart part on the game, even Hawke's escape from Lothering is more important storywise
I never get why the game is called Origins, they are the least importart part on the game, even Hawke's escape from Lothering is more important storywise
#97
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:34
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slashthedragon wrote...
Mokthar wrote...
I am sorry, I was referring to the the old P&P RP game when I said "true RP", anyone that used to play it knows that one would never be able to roleplay properly on a "videogame", I didn't meant to offend you, sorry again
IMO, DA:O should have began with you arriving at Ostagar with Duncan, so you could fill the background with whatever you had in mind.
Who were you reffering to (sorry too many quotes in there)? If me, there was no offense.
I like the idea you just mentioned.
He referred to me - I misunderstood what he meant to say and overreacted. God,how paranoid I can get sometimes on net forums:crying:
#98
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:44
slashthedragon
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tankdogg937 wrote...
Wynne (For healing skills only. A little too old to be adventuring.)
Heyheyhey let's not go there!
I've always wanted an older female character that was a warrior.
Is there any game that ever had this? And I mean older as in
starting to get grey streaks in her hair.
#99
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:46
slashthedragon
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Begemotka wrote...
He referred to me - I misunderstood what he meant to say and overreacted. God,how paranoid I can get sometimes on net forums:crying:
I think we ALL get a little paranoid at times.
#100
Guest_Begemotka_*
Posté 16 avril 2012 - 06:51
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Yes,a little bit of healthy paranoia is an essential survival skill 
