113 réponses à ce sujet

[Mokthar]

Talking about paranoia

I think they should add traps on the ceiling

[tankdogg937]

slashthedragon wrote...

tankdogg937 wrote...

Wynne (For healing skills only. A little too old to be adventuring.)

Heyheyhey let's not go there!
I've always wanted an older female character that was a warrior. 
Is there any game that ever had this?  And I mean older as in
starting to get grey streaks in her hair.

Hmm an elder woman who could wield a blade. That would be interesting. Sounds like Aveline in 40 years. She could probably still tank at 80.

[slashthedragon]

tankdogg937 wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

tankdogg937 wrote...

Wynne (For healing skills only. A little too old to be adventuring.)

Heyheyhey let's not go there!
I've always wanted an older female character that was a warrior. 
Is there any game that ever had this?  And I mean older as in
starting to get grey streaks in her hair.

Hmm an elder woman who could wield a blade. That would be interesting. Sounds like Aveline in 40 years. She could probably still tank at 80.

I would LOVE that.<3

[Mokthar]

Elder woman who could wield a blade? KREIA?? HELL NO!!!!!

[LobselVith8]

crimsontotem wrote...

I still think that my Warden and his companions can manhandle Hakwe and his companions any day of the week.

Sten and Morrigan fought off the fade and never surrendered to the temptation, Leliana killed a high dragon, Zevran killed Antivan crow's guildmaster, Oghren is just freaking awesome, Aistair is Grey Warden King, Wynne is not even a human but a spirit of faith and human combination and she is way stronger than Anders mentally and magically, Shale can destroy anything, and my warden defeated the blight, kicked Archdemon's ass and violated the Mother and her countless childs... while Hawke had a full help from templar and mages to take down a one crazy old lady. 

I think my Warden wins. 

I think the problem with Hawke is that we have little control over determining who he (or she) is, especially with the problem of the auto-lines and the bad paraphrasing that makes it difficult to understand what he's going to actually say. Our control over who Hawke can be is limited: Hawke can't be atheist because Bioware made him an Andrastian, he is passive for years (especially during Meredith's dictatorship), he doesn't do much until people order him to get involved, he never follows up on evidence of Quentin having an accomplice despite finding a hand-written letter, and he never tries to rise to power (even if he expresses such an interest when speaking with Varric). There was potential with Hawke, but I don't feel like the creators followed up on it.

The Warden saved the world and irrevocably changed several societies in Ferelden. The Warden could be proactive, and could even be an atheist. Hawke , on the other hand, is passive in the narrative. Petrice says she wants to start a religious war? Hawke does nothing. Cullen is taking Bethany away to a Circle where Hawke knows mages are being made tranquil illegally? Hawke does nothing. Meredith becomes a dictator for three years? Hawke does nothing for three years until the Champion suddenly stumbles upon Orsino holding a rally. Hawke is passive, regardless of how he wanted the Champion of Kirkwall to be.

There is also the problem with the dichotomy between mages and templars: Hawke deals with mage antagonists who are insane and stupid, and templar antagonists who are sadists and rapists. They are basically caricatures. It isn't compelling to see the Champion deal with characters who don't feel like people because the Plot demands that they need to be one-dimensional cartoons instead of compelling characters. There's also the issue of the lack of a genuine Rise to Power in the story: Why can't Hawke be proactive? Why can't he rise to power in Kirkwall through ingenuity and cunning? Even Carver can note that Hawke basically punched his way to becoming Champion.

[Halberd96]

I have no doubt the Grey Warden and his companions are all much stronger than Hawke and his companions.

Although I'd say Hawke could probably win in a fight with most of the Warden's companions but that is speculation...I doubt he could beat Morrigan though. At the very least not after Witch Hunt.

[Merengues 1945]

I think of the warden as a very powerful guy who can overpower every single little silly creature in Thedas from a spirit to an Archdemon... but absoloutely lacking of a personality or a really meaningful connection with his very powerful companions.

Just look, the warden has Morrigan who is a very powerful witch, mother of an archdemon baby, Alistair who is a grey warden, good warrior and great king, Wynne who is a powerful and charismatic healer, a golem and a half-drunk comic dwarf... they're great compared to the silly companions of Hawke.

But a sarcastic/funny female Hawke is always almost or maybe as good as the warden... but in the end I still like more The Warden, Dragon Age Origins and the Archdemon as main antagonist.

[jsadalia]

I think the reason I felt more attached to my warden was precisely because he was not voiced: Hawke is in large part defined by how he talks (any character is), and I did not really relate comfortably to that character.

I prefer the DAO characters for narrative reasons. And because Grey Wardens are cool.

[Archer]

I am certainly a fan of both but i think i would agree that the Warden is the better character.

My Wardens for example feel more like my character, i have a stronger connection to them in the story because i feel i am a 100% in control of their character. In DAO the Warden player character is a blank slate and we as players have more choice defining our characters personality as the story progresses. I feel i have more control in DAO over my characters personality than i do in DA2.

I have a female human noble who believes in putting others before her and will always do the right thing, my Dalish Warden is at heart a good guy, but sees shades of grey, has a strong dislike of humans, is willing to make tough choices for the greater good, and my city elf is frankly a total nut job with a major hatred of humans and does a lot of damage on his way to defeating the blight.

I guess what i am saying is that DAO actually lets us roleplay and develop our character the way we want. This means we have a stronger connection to our Wardens than we do to our Hawkes. The Warden feels like our character.

By contrast Hawke is more of an established character that we step into, to interact with the game world. There really isnt much we can do to establish Hawke as our own character in the world. Basicly we can choose to make him male or female, and we can choose to make Hawke Heroic, Witty, or Nasty. This creates a level of disconnect to the character as we cant impact on his/hers personality to the same degree that we do with the Warden.

In DAO we are working with the writers of the game to tell the story, we feel a stronger connection to the Warden because we feel more invested in the character and more in control of shaping that characters story and destiny. In DA2 we are participating in an interactive fantasy movie and have less control on how our characters personilty is shaped.

Mass Effect also highlights this. In ME1 and ME2 i played through the story with my Shepard. He/She was my character, be it a noble self sacrificing soldier, a ruthless psychopath who felt the ends justified the means, or a pragmatic individual who sometimes made tough choices to get the job done, but was a good soul at heart. In ME3 i didnt play my Shepard i played Bioware's Shepard. I was more disconnected to my Shepard than i was in 1 or 2. Interestingly enough i have more replay saves for DAO,ME1,ME2 than i do for DA2 or ME3. I had 24 Shepard saves prior to playing ME3. I have played through ME3 twice, more so because of the disconnect i feel to Shepard than any feelings i have regarding the ending (which i did hate). I have 8 Wardens compared to 3 Hawkes for DA2.

It all goes back to the type of game at the end of the day. DAO was a true RPG, DA2 was an action adventure and in many ways i think thats one of the key reasons DA2 got so much negativity. The DAO fans wanted an RPG, and that isnt entirley what we got. In many ways i think its the core reason Bioware gets so much negativity these days. The core fan base are fans because Bioware traditionaly made hardcore RPG's. Its what we are here for. These days they seem to be moving more toward the action adventure market and almost seem to be forgetting their RPG roots in order to appeal to the mass market.

Theres a really good oportunity with the next Dragon Age game to get this right. Bring back the origins, let us choose our race and take some of the best aspects of DA2 and give "our" hero a voice.

So yes Warden>Hawke

But the potential is there for DA3 protagonist to be >Warden & Hawke

Modifié par eveynameiwantisfekintaken, 23 avril 2012 - 01:11 .

[Tenshi]

you guys dont understand that hawke HAS TO BE HUMAN, it would no make sense if you were dalish elf running around kirkwal. and dont tell me that first hour of the game made you so proud of ur warden (start was only part where he/she was different from the others).

i agree that DA:O was maybe best rpg i played. but thats not fault of hawke that he was placed in wrong game, is it?

And poor arishok, best antagonist ever too bad i had to kill him.

just to note: someone here said that warden can be spirit warrior (or how is that heavy armed mage called), that means nothing. to this day i remember how single templar pwned my butt so many times i had to lower difficulty to medium/easy. he just debuffed me and i fell like house of a cards. that class is not so unbeatable as you think.

[Archer]

xxx2emo4Uxxx wrote...

you guys dont understand that hawke HAS TO BE HUMAN, it would no make sense if you were dalish elf running around kirkwal. and dont tell me that first hour of the game made you so proud of ur warden (start was only part where he/she was different from the others).

i agree that DA:O was maybe best rpg i played. but thats not fault of hawke that he was placed in wrong game, is it?

And poor arishok, best antagonist ever too bad i had to kill him.

just to note: someone here said that warden can be spirit warrior (or how is that heavy armed mage called), that means nothing. to this day i remember how single templar pwned my butt so many times i had to lower difficulty to medium/easy. he just debuffed me and i fell like house of a cards. that class is not so unbeatable as you think.

The fact that Hawke has to be Human kind of reinforces the point i made about there being more disconnect with the character of Hawke when compared to the Warden. Its another aspect of control over the character we build being taken away from us.

As i said above IMHO the Warden seems to be the more favoured character because we as players have a stronger connection to the character because we have a greater degree of control in shaping that character than we do with Hawke.

Hawke isnt necesarily a bad character, theres just less investment in him/her

[whichwitch]

Bottom line for me, is replayability. Hawke's story I was along for the ride, period. I have like 15 different wardens who tweak the story a bit differently each one. I have played DA:2 like 3 times all the way thru started a few more and was like, meh.

Main reason DA:O keeps bringing me back? IT HAD MOD TOOLS! The fabulous modders add some great content voila' , I play it again.

Edit: BTW, I did not hate DA:2. It was a fun game, barring the problems that have all been stated before. I enjoyed the DLC as well. At the end of the day, it just didn't make me want to keep visiting Kirkwall.  So Warden>Hawke.......

Modifié par whichwitch, 24 avril 2012 - 02:15 .