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[Giltspur]

I thought it was a cool quest. 

I noticed a strategy guide (don't remember which--not Prima, the other one, something to do with pigs, I think--that mentioned a reactive encounter later in the game based on your decision in this quest.  There obviously is no reactive encounter.  But perhaps they get some advance information to meet their publishing deadlines and that advance info was for content that ultimately didn't make it into the game.  

[Pandaman102]

Giltspur wrote...

I noticed a strategy guide (don't remember which--not Prima, the other one, something to do with pigs, I think--that mentioned a reactive encounter later in the game based on your decision in this quest.  There obviously is no reactive encounter.  But perhaps they get some advance information to meet their publishing deadlines and that advance info was for content that ultimately didn't make it into the game.  

Official strategy guides tend to get their information months before a game goes gold in order for all the walkthroughs and hints to be written and edited, images and maps to be chosen, layout to be decided, and such. Obviously things can change (typically content being cut or other relatively minor changes) in that time period, but that information either doesn't reach the publishers of the guides or arrives too late to make it into printing.

I wouldn't touch a strategy guide unless it was for an imported game, since those tend to be based on what the game's actually like instead of what it could've been like.

[Rifneno]

LobselVith8 wrote...

That doesn't really make any sense. Why bring up the fact that people disagree with you about the Chantry controlled Circles in a thread that has nothing to do with them?

Because he's a troll.

Sabariel wrote...

If Kelder's father was remotely competent I would turn Kelder over to the courts. But alas...

He is competent. He just doesn't care about the elven kids if it means punishing his own son. Honestly I couldn't blame the guy for not having it in him to have his own child executed, but there's no good reason he didn't imprison him.

Giltspur wrote...

I thought it was a cool quest. 

I noticed a strategy guide (don't remember which--not Prima, the other one, something to do with pigs, I think--that mentioned a reactive encounter later in the game based on your decision in this quest.  There obviously is no reactive encounter.  But perhaps they get some advance information to meet their publishing deadlines and that advance info was for content that ultimately didn't make it into the game.  

I believe this is the line in question: "If you choose to kill Kelder, Elren will reward the player; Vanard, by contrast, will leave in disgust when you report in to end the quest. This leads to a reactive event later in the story."

It's likely referring to this: "If you completed Magistrate’s Orders and chose to kill Kelder, pay a visit to the elven alienage during the day to meet Lia, the young elf you saved. This brief cutscene is extended if Aveline is in your current party."

Disappointing since we were expecting a quest but it did just say "event" and the Lia scene would qualify. It does have some interesting bits here and there though... one I noticed is that it says you get an amulet, "White Scapular of the Defender," (+17 Health, +22 Defense, +1 Armor) in a letter from Gascard DuPuis in Act III should you take him to Quentin's lair, convince him to fight with you, and then spare him later in Darktown. The letter in-game mentions that he sent an item but no item is given. Always wondered what the deal with that was. It must be bugged and supposed to give you that amulet (which actually is in the game's data files and can be obtained with Vaddin via the console on the PC version).

[Dean_the_Young]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

The problem is that's all it is - a note. Hawke's family doesn't get punished even without the magistrate's help and doesn't go out of his way to push for punishment if his son is dead, which he had ample opportunity to since Hawke hasn't returned from the Deep Roads yet and the family hasn't reclaimed their noble title.

Without metagaming, I can't know that. No more than I can know that, had I taken Bethany to the Deep Roads I wouldn't have had Templars waiting to take her when I got back.

The appearance of an effect is pretty much all Bioware RPGs, including Origins, have done. With that in mind, not have gameplay radically changed is not a vice.

Metagaming is a rather broad term, personally I've never heard of it presented as anything other than "don't make in-game decisions based on out-of-game knowledge", which I don't feel applies to this example. If I were metagaming the Magistrate's Orders quest, I would spare the son and tell the magistrate to say nothing because I know that yields the greatest reward (three gold pieces) without any consequences; however being unable to ignore the fact that any decision I make regarding the quest (ignore it completely, spare son, kill son, blackmail, don't blackmail, etc.) has no consequences is not metagaming in itself. That's just lacking a selective memory.

Metagaming is generally breaking the immersion yourself by presuming that it is a game. Aiming for particular rewards is a part of it, but even quibbling about how doing any other action would get the same result is a breach of immersion because there's no basis or way for Hawke to know the differences.

[Rifneno]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Metagaming is generally breaking the immersion yourself by presuming that it is a game. Aiming for particular rewards is a part of it, but even quibbling about how doing any other action would get the same result is a breach of immersion because there's no basis or way for Hawke to know the differences.

What if your Hawke is an awesome psychic?

[Pandaman102]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Metagaming is generally breaking the immersion yourself by presuming that it is a game. Aiming for particular rewards is a part of it, but even quibbling about how doing any other action would get the same result is a breach of immersion because there's no basis or way for Hawke to know the differences.

Honestly I can't really say much against that since I can't exactly crack open a dictionary or encylopedia britannica and say which of us is correct on the definition of this particular jargon, but that really is rather beside the point; the fact remains that one of the promises of the game was a story that would change based on every decision the players made and - as players - we know that's not what was delivered. That Hawke, as a character within the game's world, doesn't realize this is happening doesn't make it any less of a reality for the players.

[Sabariel]

Rifneno wrote...
He is competent. He just doesn't care about the elven kids if it means punishing his own son. Honestly I couldn't blame the guy for not having it in him to have his own child executed, but there's no good reason he didn't imprison him.

Yeah... that doesn't sound like competency to me.

[Black-Xero]

 I killed him.He wanted to die and it helped put him out of his misery.I wasn't afraid of what the magistrate would do as I would just get rid of him as well.Go Hawke!