1411 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

(End game spoilers)


Am i the only one who thinks Anders did the right thing by blowing up the chantry? I mean religion is purposly spreading lies to deceive and control people in the false pretense of bringing hope and peace. Disinformation and lies are evils that goes hand in hand with religion. There is no empirical evidence that the maker is real, therefore brainwashing and manipulating children and weak minded grown ups into this web of lies is evil in nature.

Anders blew up the chantry, and it was rightious in every way. There are no innocents, the world is what it is based on our actions aswell as our inactions. Allowing the chantry to spread fairytales is a crime, and falling for them is also a crime. So all who died in the explosion had it comming.

When Anders did what he did i smiled from ear to ear. Such a blow to superstition is a great victory for Thedas`s future. If this future first needs to be cleansed in a tidal wave of blood to remove the parasites that believes in the maker, then it is totally fine. There must be sacrifices before things can get better.

Just as the body first weakens from disease, it will then be strengthened against it after. The disease in this matter being the "maker"

HAIL ANDERS!

[Loc'n'lol]

Well, no you're not the only one. There's you, and then there's Anders. That's all two of you.

[Icy Magebane]

Your views are somewhat immature. To say that religion should be overthrown through violence, regardless of each person's right to their own beliefs makes little sense. If anything, the Chantry was a neutral party, and Anders was a misguided lunatic. If you think that the people who were at the Chantry to worship, who had no involvement in the Templars, deserved death, then you are delusional.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Hail Anders.

[AlexXIV]

Well he is sort of a freedom-fighter/terrorist/rebel. Whatever you want to call it. He got the right ideas about freedom of the mages and that the chantry oppression is kind of unbearable. But I can't find him blowing up the Chantry like that and the Grand Cleric (who was rather nice tbh.) a good thing. It is just something you don't do if you are a good person and I think it was more Justice's work than Anders'.

[Gabey5]

to tell you the truth i was glad, he spiced things up if i had to hear meridith or orsino **** anymore ...

[Raygereio]

Remember kids; according to the OP brutally slaughtering people who's choice of livestyle you don't agree with and murdering bystanders who have nothing to do with whatever argument is going on is a-okay.

I love this; I wonder if the BioWare writers who are reading this feel the same level of shock and dread as Alan More did when he found out people thought V from V for Vedetta was a hero.

Użytkownik Raygereio edytował ten post 15 marzec 2011 - 01:04

[Jarlan23]

It shocked me. I think that what he did was wrong, and that he was as terrorist. Killed him for it.

[AlexXIV]

Raygereio wrote...

Remember kids; according to the OP brutally slaughtering people who's choice of livestyle you don't agree with and murdering bystanders who have nothing to do with whatever argument is going on is a-okay.

I love this; I wonder if the BioWare writers who are reading this feel the same level of shock and dread as Alan More did when he found out people thought V from V for Vedetta was a hero.

Humans are nothing but wild animals caged in society. If you let them out humanity will be wiped from the face of earth in no time.

That being said, in the internet you can almost say what you want without alot of repercussions. It's scary sometimes if people just say what they think without having to fear anything. But it is also very revealing.

[Mahtisonni]

Indeed Anders deserves a very stern scolding!

He stole my kill and people go to hell for that.

What part of "I call the dibs on burning the chantry" does he not understand?

Użytkownik Mahtisonni edytował ten post 15 marzec 2011 - 01:08

[Nananenenunu]

Anders may think that he speaks for all mages. But how many mages agree with him? There's a whole group called the Loyalists, who think that the current system is the best. What's about them? Don't they count because they're traitors?
He wants to "free" all mages without even asking them first. He doesn't care about their opinions. Just like the templare and the Chantry.

[Mahtisonni]

Nananenenunu wrote...

Anders may think that he speaks for all mages. But how many mages agree with him? There's a whole group called the Loyalists, who think that the current system is the best. What's about them? Don't they count because they're traitors?
He wants to "free" all mages without even asking them first. He doesn't care about their opinions. Just like the templare and the Chantry.

Justice sees them as obstruction to the freedom that mages deserve and is ready to purge the loyalists as well as seen in that one sidequest.

Użytkownik Mahtisonni edytował ten post 15 marzec 2011 - 01:11

[Kemor]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

(End game spoilers)


Am i the only one who thinks Anders did the right thing by blowing up the chantry? I mean religion is purposly spreading lies to deceive and control people in the false pretense of bringing hope and peace. Disinformation and lies are evils that goes hand in hand with religion. There is no empirical evidence that the maker is real, therefore brainwashing and manipulating children and weak minded grown ups into this web of lies is evil in nature.

Anders blew up the chantry, and it was rightious in every way. There are no innocents, the world is what it is based on our actions aswell as our inactions. Allowing the chantry to spread fairytales is a crime, and falling for them is also a crime. So all who died in the explosion had it comming.

When Anders did what he did i smiled from ear to ear. Such a blow to superstition is a great victory for Thedas`s future. If this future first needs to be cleansed in a tidal wave of blood to remove the parasites that believes in the maker, then it is totally fine. There must be sacrifices before things can get better.

Just as the body first weakens from disease, it will then be strengthened against it after. The disease in this matter being the "maker"

HAIL ANDERS!

Sorry, total failure of understanding how things work I believe. What do you think could happen after this? I'll give you a couple of hints.

1) Religious people will be shocked by this, become even more devout after having not only a martyr (the mother) but also a proof that non believers are "evil" murderers. You cannot reason with ideology and The Chantry is one. Blowing up things thinking it'll bring them to their knees is not gonna work because they see EVERYTHING as a sign that can strengthen their faith. This kind of stupid act is how you can very easily start crusades that will result in the slaughter of thousands who previously didn't care much.

2) Non religious people will be shocked that someone could do such a terrible thing, blowing up an entire building, killing tons of innocent people inside and around it. They won't become religious but in no way shape or form will it become a rallying cry to fight the chantry or something. Most didn't care much before, now they still don't care much about it but know that Anders was a total lunatic. You see, the "weakness" (or strength) of non religious people most of the time is that they don't care much and usually they are reasonable people. Reasonable people cannot justify this kind of mass murder, they just want to live their life in peace without insane crap like that happening all around.

Be careful that your Hawke's anti-religious feelings don't transform into an ideology itself because then, you'll be just as they are, totally incapable of using logic and reason. Or maybe that how you're playing him

The only way to destroy a religion like the Chantry is time, stability, education of the masses and progress. Kinda works like all religions really. Even though it's on our Earth, just look at Europe..Close to 70% non religious now and climbing. Give it 100 or 200 years and it'll have disappeared almost completely, unless something goes horribly wrong of course, which always strengthens religions.

Użytkownik Kemor edytował ten post 15 marzec 2011 - 01:20

[rma2110]

So basically Justice would see a mage like Bethany killed just because she's happy in the circle? Justice really is vengeance.

[NarcissaArtois]

Even Orisino isn't impressed with what he did. Anders wasn't even a member of the circle in Kirkwall, but it was his behavior that set Merideth off to anull the entire circle.
He says that he is tired of being controlled because people fear mages...blowing up the chantry didn't exactly make people take a step back and go "Oh...well now that the chantry has been blown up by a mage...I believe that my views of them were wrong and misguided."
If anything, people went "See!? I told you mages were dangerous and need to be controlled!"

[RazorrX]

Justice is no longer Justice. Anders was full of hate and contempt when he joined with Justice. At that point justice changed into vengence. The spirit of Justice basically died in a sense. Anders corrupted a good spirit with his hate/rage to the point that it is now a demon.

Anders was wrong, he was a terrorist, and I killed him for it. (Please note, I would have killed him the moment I found out he was an abomination, thus saving everyone in the chantry but Bioware did not give me that option).

As much as I feel for the mages (my mage play through in DA:O was one of my favorites) I agree that Magic is dangerous, mages are dangerous and need oversight. They do not need Draconian Prison Camps, but they do need oversight.

And you know what the worse part is? Anders PROVES that Tempars are needed more by what he does than anything else.

The system needs to be changed, not removed. Templars need more oversight, they have way too much authority and free reign in how they deal with mages. But mages are a danger and thus need to be closely monitored.

[Kemor]

Personally I would have killed Anders when he went completely nuts against the Templars and even the poor mage girl we were supposed to be rescuing but there was no options to do so, which is very odd. I mean, you can already CLEARLY see that he needs to be put down.

Sure the Templars were bad guys there and needed to be dealt with, but they were just regular humans, doing what humans can do sometimes. That's human nature, it can and is being dealt with on a daily basis. Anders was not and clearly an abomination already.

[DrekorSilverfang]

The one thing I wanted to do all through DA:O and Anders does it for me. I was a little upset that I couldn't blow it up myself... but oh well, Anders and Me are best buddies! Admittely though I don't care about the plight of mages... I just hate the chantry and their damn choir boy sebastian.

I was very suprised when Cullen sided with me though. That came out of nowhere.

Użytkownik DrekorSilverfang edytował ten post 15 marzec 2011 - 01:30

[tom.bleaker]

Anders was completely out of line. Elthina was a decent person. Regardless of her silly beliefs, she did not deserve to die. I was absolutely horrified when I realized what he had done. I would have preferred that he march with me to his death to atone for his crime but Sebastian threatened the deaths of more innocents if I didn't deal with Anders then and there. So I stabbed him. It was one of the hardest choices I made in the game. There was some justice in the act of dispatching Anders, but there was no good in it.

[elecmanexe001]

I was shocked, having liked him previously I did all I could to be friends, tell him otherwise, cheer him up. ... If only I had a cat to give him maybe he would have forgotten all his troubles and calmed down.

I get his position, he was to be a cause, to start something that if not started soon might never come, and he truly believed in his cause. I also believed in Ander's side for the most part, the mages being oppressed and such, but still blowing up the chantry was uncalled for. However if that didn't happen the mages would still likely have been killed in Kirkwall.

[AlexXIV]

rma2110 wrote...

So basically Justice would see a mage like Bethany killed just because she's happy in the circle? Justice really is vengeance.

You get that in this one quest. Clearly justice wants to kill the mage girl while anders when he is himself again is thankful that he didn't. I think in act 3 justice has influenced Anders so much that he bascially picked up his idea of 'justice'.

[Envor44]

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Użytkownik Envor44 edytował ten post 15 marzec 2011 - 02:02

[AlexXIV]

Envor44 wrote...

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lol

[eaKephas]

Everything about Anders in DA2 is absolutely terrible.

He's probably my biggest disappointment in the game. In Awakenings, he was a pretty solid character, but they've stripped away everything that made him likeable.

I cannot stand him.

[DKJaigen]

AlexXIV wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

So basically Justice would see a mage like Bethany killed just because she's happy in the circle? Justice really is vengeance.

You get that in this one quest. Clearly justice wants to kill the mage girl while anders when he is himself again is thankful that he didn't. I think in act 3 justice has influenced Anders so much that he bascially picked up his idea of 'justice'.

The problem with vengeance is that you see everything black and white if you take it to far. that's why anders destroyed the chantr: they are part of the problem. while i normally would condone  blind vengeance in this case anders was right. the chantry is part of the problem in the mage oppression and as such perfectly viable target.