1411 réponses à ce sujet

[Harid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That DA2 failed to make the Mage-Templar conflict live up to how interesting it could've been does not mean the concept is bad. Just its execution.


But if Bioware fails to salvage it and make it as interesting as it should be, I'm done with the series.

In my opinion it's too much to salvage.  Bioware would have to retroactively add so many things, as well as completely invalidate their book canon/game canon dichotomy to make it plausible, if you think the retcons complaints from Anders and Leliana were bad, those would be worse.  I have no issue with mages fighting the power, and all that good stuff, but I do have a problem with how they are going it as so far with Dragon Age 2.

Hell it's 5:30.  I need to go to bed O_o

[TEWR]

Harid wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Point. 

Hey! I dig the flowchart. But I don't mind similar games. BW does those games best to me. The political intrigue on the other hand is better left to Suikoden and the Witcher. BW doesn't do grey well unless it's background noise (Genophage). 

I can agree with this.

Suikoden being dead brings tears to my eyes, though the nonsensical betrayals in some of them. . .mehhhhhhhh.  But that's a different discussion for a different time.

The only Suikoden game I've played was Suikoden IV, and that had one of the best political stories I've played. Haven't yet played my copies of the Witcher and the Witcher 2.

Oh and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn had a good political story.

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I meant that you can tell Irving it's foolish, not Dagna

I'm pretty sure you can insult Dagna too. Not sure if you can tell her dad before she leaves though. 

Meh who knows. But just because she doesn't ask you anymore doesn't mean she won't ask somebody else. Not everything revolves around the Warden.

I know you can tell her dad after she leaves, and that means that you can't buy crap from his shop anymore.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 juillet 2011 - 09:41 .

[Chuvvy]

Every time, every time I see this thread, I think you're talking about a totally different yet eerily similar Anders.

[Costin_Razvan]

Elthina was the highest ranking authority of the Chantry in that city ( that she did not try and control Meredith is irrelevant ). She is answerable for what Meredith does and for what that guy with the Tranquil Solution did.

I laugh at Anders if he trully thought this would make things better, but I am not upset that the Grand Cleric died along with all her sisters and brothers in the Chantry and the Templars guarding it.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 juillet 2011 - 10:54 .

[Rifneno]

Maker. This thread has become the dumbest thing since they stopped letting Hulk Hogan make movies.

Harid wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Heh. Sad but true.

It looks like it'll be more of an asspull than defeating the Reapers. And that has the potential to be a pretty huge one.

Can't wait till Shepard finds a *Turn off Reaper* switch that the Protheans created but never implemented for some reason.

The rage will be awesome.

Bert. Ernie. Do you two not understand the very concept of fiction, or do you just love to hear yourselves whine this much? Seriously, what's the issue here? That an underdog defeats a far superior evil? That describes about 75% of fiction. Do you guys go into movies like Alien, any of the 502 James Bond movies, or Batman and complain the main character overcomes asinine odds?

"As opposed to shows that represent the world exactly the way it is, like...can't think of any. Good thing because they would suck. And be redundant. " - Dr. Gregory House, an extremely unrealistic and extremely entertaining character

Complaining about Mass Effect is daft enough since we have no idea how Shepard is going to accomplish the task. But some of these complaints about DA are even worse. One minute everyone's going on about how mages need to be controlled because they're walking nuclear gods and they can incinerate entire galaxies with a thought and all that exaggeration. Then the next minute it's stupid that they can hold their own in a war because they're so weak and pathetic. Oh, and everyone hates them. We're basing this on 10 kilobytes of data from an unreliable codex and 50 petabytes of assumptions from people whose views it just coincidentally enforces. Funny that.

[nitefyre410]

Rifneno wrote...

Maker. This thread has become the dumbest thing since they stopped letting Hulk Hogan make movies.

Harid wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Heh. Sad but true.

It looks like it'll be more of an asspull than defeating the Reapers. And that has the potential to be a pretty huge one.

Can't wait till Shepard finds a *Turn off Reaper* switch that the Protheans created but never implemented for some reason.

The rage will be awesome.

Bert. Ernie. Do you two not understand the very concept of fiction, or do you just love to hear yourselves whine this much? Seriously, what's the issue here? That an underdog defeats a far superior evil? That describes about 75% of fiction. Do you guys go into movies like Alien, any of the 502 James Bond movies, or Batman and complain the main character overcomes asinine odds?

"As opposed to shows that represent the world exactly the way it is, like...can't think of any. Good thing because they would suck. And be redundant. " - Dr. Gregory House, an extremely unrealistic and extremely entertaining character

Complaining about Mass Effect is daft enough since we have no idea how Shepard is going to accomplish the task. But some of these complaints about DA are even worse. One minute everyone's going on about how mages need to be controlled because they're walking nuclear gods and they can incinerate entire galaxies with a thought and all that exaggeration. Then the next minute it's stupid that they can hold their own in a war because they're so weak and pathetic. Oh, and everyone hates them. We're basing this on 10 kilobytes of data from an unreliable codex and 50 petabytes of assumptions from people whose views it just coincidentally enforces. Funny that.

 

^  This right here 

/co sign

also.... +10 internets for you and 

Nitefrye approves  +15

[TEWR]

Wait.... Dr. Gregory House isn't a realistic character? How so? I thought he was plenty realistic.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Wait.... Dr. Gregory House isn't a realistic character? How so? I thought he was plenty realistic.

This. 

A bit unusual and strange does not unrealistic make. 

Now him getting away with most of he crap he does...that's what's unrealistic. 

[TEWR]

well... he is banging Cuddy

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

well... he is banging Cuddy

 

Which is unlikely. Not unrealistic. 
What is unrealistic is all those patients he badger not one of them tries to press charges. Really there's just no way. Only time he didn't make me wanna kick him down a flight of stairs was that scene where the autistic boy gave him his PSP. 

I'm bias though as that's one of my extreme pet peeves. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:22 .

[TEWR]

I think it's due in part to the whole life-and-death struggle. I wouldn't press charges on the man who did whatever it took (without killing anyone) to save my life.

If he wants to sneak into my house to save my life and he does, I wouldn't care.

It may not be ethical, and they may not like it, but it's how much he was willing to do to save their lives that probably made them not press charges.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think it's due in part to the whole life-and-death struggle. I wouldn't press charges on the man who did whatever it took (without killing anyone) to save my life.

If he wants to sneak into my house to save my life and he does, I wouldn't care.

It may not be ethical, and they may not like it, but it's how much he was willing to do to save their lives that probably made them not press charges.

People will sue if you break their leg saving their life. I'm pretty sure someone 
would try to sue House.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:28 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Americans....

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think it's due in part to the whole life-and-death struggle. I wouldn't press charges on the man who did whatever it took (without killing anyone) to save my life.

If he wants to sneak into my house to save my life and he does, I wouldn't care.

It may not be ethical, and they may not like it, but it's how much he was willing to do to save their lives that probably made them not press charges.

People will sue if you break their leg saving their life. I'm pretty sure someone 
would try to sue House.

And isn't that a sad state of affairs.

As far as finding a way to retroactively make the mage war believable...  I guess we'll see.  I'm thinking they will toss in some common foe like the Qunari or another blight or some kind of invasion from the Fade that will unite the mages and Templars and they'll save the world.  They are unlikely to have Hawke help one side defeat the other and then create two futures based on that.

[GavrielKay]

Rifneno wrote...
One minute everyone's going on about how mages need to be controlled because they're walking nuclear gods and they can incinerate entire galaxies with a thought and all that exaggeration. Then the next minute it's stupid that they can hold their own in a war because they're so weak and pathetic.

QFT

I envision it is a very decentralized war with roving bands of Templars interrogating villagers to see if mages have passed through and groups of 2 or 3 mages together trying to leave the area or blend in.  We know from Anders that if a mage does enough favors for the poor, they'll help conceal them, and there's no reason to expect that won't continue.  Really, this whole "everyone hates mages" thing is actually disproven in DA2.  There's bound to be some repercussions from a mage blowing up the Chantry, but to expect those feelings to be universal isn't any more realistic than anything else.  I'd expect actual fighting to be fairly rare and at the skirmish level as neither side would want a pitched battle.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think it's due in part to the whole life-and-death struggle. I wouldn't press charges on the man who did whatever it took (without killing anyone) to save my life.

If he wants to sneak into my house to save my life and he does, I wouldn't care.

It may not be ethical, and they may not like it, but it's how much he was willing to do to save their lives that probably made them not press charges.

People will sue if you break their leg saving their life. I'm pretty sure someone 
would try to sue House.

But they do sue him...sure it's not on-screen but it's mentioned several times that Cudyd spents most of the legal budget of the Hospital on House.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Rifneno wrote...
One minute everyone's going on about how mages need to be controlled because they're walking nuclear gods and they can incinerate entire galaxies with a thought and all that exaggeration. Then the next minute it's stupid that they can hold their own in a war because they're so weak and pathetic.

It's actually a fair distinction. Raw power and military capacity are different things. Mages, at least ones in the Circle, have raw power (that can be boosted by blood magic and demons), which as we have seen can get out of control and cause a lot of damage to everyone including mages. That does not equal military discipline, understanding of tactics, ressources....etc.

Mages can cause a lot of damage, but that's not enough to fight disciplined men and win the war.

GavrielKay wrote...
I envision it is a very decentralized war with roving bands of Templars interrogating villagers to see if mages have passed through and groups of 2 or 3 mages together trying to leave the area or blend in.  We know from Anders that if a mage does enough favors for the poor, they'll help conceal them, and there's no reason to expect that won't continue.  Really, this whole "everyone hates mages" thing is actually disproven in DA2. 

What you forget is the unique context that Kirkwall had. Meredith's clumsiness engendered a sympathy for mages not found anywhere else, and Cullen makes a mention of it. It's only in Kirkwall that common folk sympathized with mages. I have no reason to believe as of yet that people outside of Kirkwall have the same amount of sympathy, especially after what happened, when they in general look up to Templars as champions and help them.

Mages won't be fighting pitched battles most likely (though seeing how stupid they are, I would not be surprised), but a succesful guerilla war cannot be accomplished without at least some popular support, and I see little reason why people would a priori sympathize with mages especially after what happened. Could mages acquire such support? Maybe, but they will need to work for it very hard. 

Something that the fool Anders probably never thought of by the end.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 juillet 2011 - 04:04 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
Hey! I dig the flowchart. But I don't mind similar games. BW does those games best to me. The political intrigue on the other hand is better left to Suikoden and the Witcher. BW doesn't do grey well unless it's background noise (Genophage). 

QFT.
Bioware ranges from somewhat decent to just bad when it comes to that.

The Witcher 2 is the only game I've played that I found sexy, not because of the sex or the amazing graphics, but because of the political intrigue (see blog).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 juillet 2011 - 04:09 .

[TEWR]

you know, it's possible some mages will turn out to be tactical savants. Hell they may have even studied warfare or read books on the subject in their free time. Loghain was just a farmer and he proved to be a tactical genius during the Fereldan Rebellion.


Or so people claim. I have yet to see him make one solid tactical victory.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

you know, it's possible some mages will turn out to be tactical savants. Hell they may have even studied warfare or read books on the subject in their free time. Loghain was just a farmer and he proved to be a tactical genius during the Fereldan Rebellion.

His father was a knight. I think that had something to do with it. That and him living with a band of rebels, who probably saw some action. 

I would be really surprised at Chantry incompetence if they actually have military books in the Circle. Furthermore, it takes much more than reading a few books to become a good military leader.

[TEWR]

but it can help. A few victories here and there through lucky calls and eventually you'll get better and better. How long it takes for you to become an effective commander varies.

And come on now, you yourself have said before that the Chantry is incompetent. This should be something you'd expect them to do.

[KnightofPhoenix]

If they manage to have a few victories here and there. Not saying it's impossible, but as it stands, the stakes are not in favor for mages.

Not that incompetent. Though yea, I should probably not be that surprised. It seems that bioware really hates having reasonable and competent characters / organizations.

[TEWR]

They've probably had some tactical victories since the war has been waging for 3 years.


At least that's what we've been led to believe. Somehow, I think it's been going on for less than that. I think Asunder details just how the Mage-Templar War came to a complete broil. Though I'm not sure as I'm going off of memory, so don't take me on my word for that.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 juillet 2011 - 04:40 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Of course they are going to have victories. The losing side can have victories and still lose the war. Just look at Germany, or America for that matter (though America insists that it was a draw...).

[KnightofPhoenix]

Actually as Rome showed several times, you can lose all or most battles, and still win a war.

Though of course mages lack what Rome had (ressources, manpower and sheer determination).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 juillet 2011 - 04:46 .