174 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Despite the level scaling, I disagree that more XP isn't better, especially if you want to add more talents to your combat, not to mention that for rogues, more points means being able to put more into cunning so you can avoid or disarm the plethora of traps that are *everywhere*.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I like Bethany much more than Carver. 

[LadyJaneGrey]

If I had to live with one of them, Bethany.

 

From a story stand-point, Carver.  I adore his conversation with Hawke at Gamlen's house during the first act.

[Gallimatia]

 

I'm not a huge fan of either, they both get on my nerves. Bethany is a kind, sweet, and gentle girl, except for the fact that she seems to think that Hawke is going to be the death of her. I can do everything for her and the only reward from her is all frowny face here and frowny face there 100% of the time. It seems like nothing makes her happy. I'm doing what I can to keep her away from the templars...

 

No you are not. You are interfering with Templar business all over the place in Act 1 and drawing unwanted attention to your family which Bethany (and Carver) point out on several occasions if brought along. As a player you can not take their advice and avoid frequenting the Gallows, batteling slavers, demons and hordes of undead for the inconsequential rewards that Kirkwalls indebted and ostracized have to offer because their missions are required to launch the deep roads expedition same as the high paying milkruns that get you to 50 Sovereigns. 

 

Personally I even went so far as to take Bethany along on these mad schemes and had her showcasing her magic all over Kirkwall wherever someone was offering up a penny or in the case of elfs second hand jewelry or books with titles. It could be argued that I let my pride get the better of me. I revelled in flaunting my power and hearing the screams of passersby as I had my sister set the streets on fire.

 

It's the Hawke! He's killed everyone!

 

In hindsight my biggest mistake was probably having her cast Firestorm on top a Templar that was fighting a group of abominations. At first the Templar shrewdly feigned ignorance and acted like nothing had happened. Knowing better than to trouble four adventurers and three mages in the field he waited until his target was alone and in her most vunerable state before he grabbed her. The scene of Bethany being dragged away from her crying mother cut to the heart of all that saw. Specifically me who was too dumbfounded to lift a finger.

 

All in all I'd say I did all I could for Bethany only in the way everyone always does everything they can for everyone else. That is to say I did the only thing I could do and in doing so I did get Bethany inprisoned. Fortunately for me the other two mages accompanying me were not Amell girls so Cullen could not be bothered to bring them in and we were able to continue with our adventuring. With one less mage to cast haste on me I found it slightly more difficult to cut through the citys rabble but more importantly I had learned that doing so could have harmful consequences and should not be done for sport or small coins. A lesson Bethany had previously tried and failed to teach me.

 

Bethany: Are you sure we should be doing this?

Bethany: I mean, I know we need coin, but... What if this duke is on good terms with the templars?

Hawke: We won't get caught.

----

Bethany: Why are we exposing ourselves like this?

----

Bethany: I'm not sure I like being this much of a target.

----

Bethany: Be careful when talking to Ser Cullen about this.

----

Bethany: What are we going to do about all these dead...?

Hawke: I think the street sweepers clean them up eventually.

Bethany: That really doesn't make me feel better.

----

Hawke: You don't bat an eye at fireballing people for Meeran's profit, but now you draw the line...?

Bethany: We didn't have a choice. Now that we're working for ourselves, I just thought we could do better.

[congokong]

Despite the level scaling, I disagree that more XP isn't better, especially if you want to add more talents to your combat, not to mention that for rogues, more points means being able to put more into cunning so you can avoid or disarm the plethora of traps that are *everywhere*.

 

You need few points to add talents to combat; even less on consoles with only 6 hotkeys. Most points go to upgrades which are meant to balance out the level scaling. Traps, seriously? They're an annoyance more than anything else. You can get to a fitting cunning level pretty early to stop traps. Again, traps are leveled as well.

[Xilizhra]

I'm sort of iffy about Bethany being in the Circle, as it seems to just make her even more passive.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That's worse than being bitter and traumatized?

[DuskWanderer]

I don't think the Grey Warden's life is suitable for Bethany, she wouldn't get the same feels out of it that Carver does. As bad as the Circle is in making her blindly obedient, the Grey Warden's life is not for her. 

 

Carver, though, understands it, and it's a good fit. I like his letter when he's a Templar, but he doesn't really live up to it in his attitude during the DLCs

[KaiserShep]

I'm sort of iffy about Bethany being in the Circle, as it seems to just make her even more passive.

A Grey Warden's life is considerably worse on many levels. In any case, Bethany clearly responds better to being in the Circle, as it plays to her own strengths. The Circle is an environment of learning for mages, whereas the Warden order is an environment of eternal warfare with monsters, which is definitely more Carver's speed.

[Xilizhra]

A Grey Warden's life is considerably worse on many levels. In any case, Bethany clearly responds better to being in the Circle, as it plays to her own strengths. The Circle is an environment of learning for mages, whereas the Warden order is an environment of eternal warfare with monsters, which is definitely more Carver's speed.

Well, as I mentioned in another thread, Bethany becomes remarkably passive if she joins the Circle, apparently content to blow with the wind and wherever the Circle happens to go. I think it sublimates her natural talent and strength of character. The Wardens are painful, but allow for more personal growth.

 

To be honest, I don't like either option, but I was rather disappointed when I finished my CircleBethany playthrough, and wanted to try one with her in the Wardens.

[KaiserShep]

Eh, I never really saw the difference in terms of personal growth. It seemed to me that the siblings simply reacted differently to their situation. The Circle and Warden order both are in some way a kind of prison for its members, the Templars for the former, and taint-addled nightmares, a shorter life span, and doom to death in the Deep Roads, becoming a ghoul, or checking out early to avoid the whole thing. Warden Carver certainly takes it better, but he's pretty much screwed rather royally.

[KaiserShep]

While I don't particularly like Carver that much, I like to apply my own general sense of morality into the PC's I play, and even if I didn't like my sibling that much, I would do all that I can to keep him/her alive. Carver does become a better character overall though after becoming a Warden. He's still a bit of an ass to Hawke if you take him along in Legacy, but he has some genuinely touching lines before the final battle.

[Undead Han]

Bethany on the Warden path is my favorite.

[Snook]

I like Carver. Well, not like. But I appreciate that he's a well written character who's pretty much a pitch-perfect, realistically written little brother. 

 

I simply enjoyed his interactions with Hawke so much more than Bethany's, who I quite honestly found to be very bland. 

[Cypher0020]

Personality wise, Bethany...running my archer hawke, and it truly feels like big brother protecting little sister

 

story wise, I really liked the animosity that my chick hawke and carver had

[TheWhitefire]

Carver doesn't deserve to be a grey warden. Let him die in the deep roads.

And Daveth and Jory did? Or heck, even Duncan, who prior to being Warden Commander, was little more than a self-serving pickpocket and womanizer? It's not about "Deserving" to be in the Wardens. After all, it's a death sentence. It's about willingness to do battle with Darkspawn, and Carver has that in spades.

[Nuclear]

Carver doesn't deserve to be a grey warden. Let him die in the deep roads.

Same way the kinslayer Dwarf Noble doesn't deserve to be one, amirite?

[Undead Han]

 

 

I simply enjoyed his interactions with Hawke so much more than Bethany's, who I quite honestly found to be very bland. 

 

Bethany works better on the Warden path, IMO. If you go that route she isn't entirely happy with her fate initially and blames Hawke for 1) bringing her into the Deep Roads, and 2) not just letting the taint take its course. It is implied that she writes to her mother regularly during the three years between Acts 2 and 3, but sends only one to Hawke, and that letter is dripping with resentment. When you run into her again with Stroud, Hawke's attempt at making her smile (if you go the sarcastic/humorous route) fails and she says she can't let herself miss Hawke or her mother, or it would be too painful for her.

 

Later if you play the Legacy DLC and have Bethany in your squad, and if you bring her along for the final battle in the main game with Meredith, she comes around, accepts her fate as a Grey Warden, apologizes, and mends her relationship with her sibling. 

 

In short you get some of the drama that Carver has, and a resolution at the end.

 

Also Grey Wardens rock. And dat armor.

[Raikas]

I like Carver. Well, not like. But I appreciate that he's a well written character who's pretty much a pitch-perfect, realistically written little brother. 

 

I simply enjoyed his interactions with Hawke so much more than Bethany's, who I quite honestly found to be very bland. 

 

Total agreement here. 

 

To me, Carver's relationship with Hawke genuinely feels like the relationship between close-in-age siblings who were raised together - the way they bicker was perfect for me.  Bethany's interactions strike me as off, in that they sound more like either a much younger sibling (like people with 10year+ age gaps) or that of a step-sibling who was raised separately for their early years.  Since we know they were raised together (and the implied age gap is probably less than 6 years), Carver just sounds more "real" to me even though he isn't made particularly likeable.

[Beerfish]

Bethany skeletor hands:

 

 

Carvers reaction:

 

[Undead Han]

Bethany skeletor hands:

 

 

 

 

 

All characters who aren't wearing gloves or gauntlets have hands that look like that in DA2.

[Milan92]

I always let Bethany join the circle. While she isn't very interesting as a circle mage, I just don't care for the extra drama it brings when you make her a warden.

 

We already got enough of that. But whatever floats people's boat, I guess.

[Undead Han]

I always let Bethany join the circle. While she isn't very interesting as a circle mage, I just don't care for the extra drama it brings when you make her a warden.

 

We already got enough of that. But whatever floats people's boat, I guess.

 

Too big of a deal is made of Bethany's unhappiness as a Warden I think. I wonder if the impression that she remains miserable is coming from players who haven't completed the game with Bethany as a Warden, because she comes around in the end game. This particularly true if you play the Legacy DLC late in the game (after she is a Warden) and have her in the party. In the DLC and the end game she has come to terms with being a Grey Warden, accepts it, and forgives Hawke.

[Snook]

In short you get some of the drama that Carver has, and a resolution at the end.

 

Eh, I think Templar Carver had a pretty good resolution, particularly if you sided with the mages. 

 

Him refusing to fight his own mage sibling and standing up for him/her in front of Meredith, despite them being completely antagonistic of each other at that point, was one of my favourite parts of DA2 tbh.