174 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

They both have personality and they get plenty of development. The game also seems to flow far better if Hawke isn't a Mage with Bethany and his father serving as his connection to Magic. 

 

If you do Legacy than Bethany even comments that your father didn't want any of his children to have magic but he still ended up having Bethany. She also expresses sadness that Hawke and Carver were their father's little soldiers and that she couldn't do a lot of stuff because she was a Mage and was constantly being trained to control her magic.

 

Bethany also exhibits what it's like to be an Apostate Mage, through her dialogue, far better than a Mage Hawke who doesn't seem too concerned over it even in Act 1. Heck, Carver is freaking out more over you being a penniless Apostate Mage!

Being a Grey Warden is a prison. Bethany is cursed to constant nightmares, she will have a short life no matter what she does, she's taken away from her family(Not even allowed social calls), will receive no great wealth or fame for what she must do, constant forced incursions into the Deep Roads, the Darkspawn will also actively hunt her and if she doesn't die when the Calling happens than she will end up like Varius who unsettled her a great deal in Legacy. It's also very unlikely that she'll be able to have children or even be allowed as the Order rules her life now and the taint has changed her. Even if she was granted the opportunity for a child, and can even have one, she would be hard pressed to find love in any form due to being a Warden.

 

And if she dies? She will only get a vigil, if even that, and she has no claim to the Hawke fortune if her sibling died at any point. That's why King Alistair has kept his Warden stuff a secret and it has been brushed off as a mere rumor as by all rights he shouldn't even be ruling due to being a Warden. As the duty of the Warden takes priority and when you become a Warden you kiss your old life behind. That and the people wouldn't react well to having a Warden officially rule over them as many fear them and view them with constant suspicion.

 

Basically being a Warden isn't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a painful life where all you may do is your duty and/or die.

That's why Bethany makes a better fit in the Circle. I think Carver does better as a Warden even thrives as one.

[Elite Midget]

Eh, Grey Warden Bethany seems to be much more mature than Circle Bethany and she has much more knowledge of the world. I worry for Circle Bethany making a place for herself in the world after what happened in DAII. While with the Grey Wardens she learned to be self-sufficient and the such.

[Pauravi]

With regards to Bethany, the thing that kinda bugs me about her is that she doesn't really get a happy ending. She either dies, becomes this angst-ridden mess as a Warden, or a obedient servant of the Chantry in the Circle up unto the point that Anders gets his Hezbollah Merit Badge.

 

LMAO

 

 

And am I the only one who feels how screwed up it is that she prefers the medieval gulag run by a gang of religious fanatics and sexual predators over a group of badass heroes of legend?

Just me?

 

I don't really think she prefers it, but she is a kind and selfless person at heart who is clearly very worried -- and a bit fearful -- of her own powers and how they could affect others.  She is convinced, whether rightfully or by Chantry dogma, that she is a danger to herself and others, and is willing to sacrifice her own freedom for the protection of others.  The fact that the Templars make it difficult to keep hiding all the time probably makes her decision easier, but still her outlook is fairly obvious.

 

That's the main reason I respect her more than Carver; simply being strong-willed and defiant isn't enough to make someone interesting OR to garner respect, especially if one is a douchebag about it.  Bethany's selflessness makes her much more admirable and likable as a character, even if I don't exactly agree with the conclusions she comes to about the idea of The Circle.  I felt like Carver chose his path less out of principle and more out of an angst-driven desire to puff up his chest and challenge his big brother.

[Pauravi]

Most people feel Carver is too jealous while they feel Bethany is hot. rotfl.

 

  True dat!!

[Pauravi]

Bethany joining the Circle feels too much like a failure on Hawke's part, and a stupid one. Leaving her home during the expedition because her mother says so is so embarrassing that I haven't done it

 

I didn't leave her because mother said so, I left her because I genuinely feared for her safety.  Something bad was going to happen... I could feel it in my nuggets.

 

Besides, Bethany always did sort of fear her magic and had thoughts about joining The Circle anyway.  I feel it is fitting, and I prefer it that way.  In the end she gets to see both sides of the fence and comes to the conclusion that mages do need their freedom.

[Pauravi]

Eh, Grey Warden Bethany seems to be much more mature than Circle Bethany and she has much more knowledge of the world. I worry for Circle Bethany making a place for herself in the world after what happened in DAII. While with the Grey Wardens she learned to be self-sufficient and the such.

 

I don't see it as maturity or knowledge, just as cynicism and resignation.  And Circle Bethany isn't helpless -- she still has the skills and instincts that kept her away from the Templars for many years.  She lived as an apostate before, she can do it again if she has to.

[AVPen]

I don't see it as maturity or knowledge, just as cynicism and resignation.  And Circle Bethany isn't helpless -- she still has the skills and instincts that kept her away from the Templars for many years.  She lived as an apostate before, she can do it again if she has to.

Except for all those years, a lot of that was also due to having Hawke, her mother, her father, and Carver helping to keep her safe and protect her.

 

I mean, as soon as Hawke left for the Deep Roads, she did end up getting caught by the templars.... 

[Xilizhra]

I dunno. The decision seems kinda difficult to me, at least from the perspective of someone who knows what being a Warden entails, because Wardens are, for the lack of a better word, f*cked on many levels. And then of course, there's the lovely prospect of possibly being dragged into some deep enclave and being violated by darkspawn to be turned into one of their breeder ghouls if you happen to be female.

 

Of course, in this case, it's not really about which I would prefer for myself, because Hawke is basically shaping this fate for someone else. If it were my sister, I would probably take my chances with the Templars, because I wouldn't want her to be in some neverending struggle with darkspawn, only to die young in some silly suicide ritual.

That isn't really the choice, though; in-character, it's just about whether to take her along. And she does want to come, and there's no greater chance, IC, of something bad happening to her than to anyone else, yes?

 

Oh, and Grey Wardens can't be made into broodmothers; that requires ghouldom, and Wardens are immune to the taint.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Except for all those years, a lot of that was also due to having Hawke, her mother, her father, and Carver helping to keep her safe and protect her.

 

I mean, as soon as Hawke left for the Deep Roads, she did end up getting caught by the templars.... 

 

That was her choice, not because Hawke wasn't there to protect her.

[AVPen]

That was her choice, not because Hawke wasn't there to protect her.

Her choice to cooperate with the templars to protect both her mother and Hawke from being punished for harboring an apostate..... not her choice to be caught by them and join the Circle and to give up her family and home.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Seems like it was her choice to me. What else would Cullen mean by Bethany's cooperation?

[KaiserShep]

That isn't really the choice, though; in-character, it's just about whether to take her along. And she does want to come, and there's no greater chance, IC, of something bad happening to her than to anyone else, yes?

 

That there's a greater or lesser chance isn't all that important; what's important is that all things being equal, something bad happening to her matters more than something bad happening to Varric or any two of the other companions of the group.

[AVPen]

Seems like it was her choice to me. What else would Cullen mean by Bethany's cooperation?

Exactly what I said in my last post - cooperating with the templars by peacefully agreeing to go to the Circle in exchange for the templars not charging Hawke and Leandra with the crime of harboring an apostate mage.

[Straw Nihilist]

Carver, because Bethany's hands. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

And she does want to come, and there's no greater chance, IC, of something bad happening to her than to anyone else, yes?

Well, Mother did not want her to go. That might not matter to others, but it did to me.

[ellieshep]

I have a preference for the sys, though I don't think Carver is a bad character, but Bethany's in some ways better , so I like her most and sadly in my main playthrough as mage I am forced to have Carver; it was a pleasure to have Bethany in my party instead

[Xilizhra]

Well, Mother did not want her to go. That might not matter to others, but it did to me.

She doesn't want Carver to go either, but things get much worse if he doesn't.

[KaiserShep]

She doesn't want Carver to go either, but things get much worse if he doesn't.

 

It makes sense though, because Bethany and Carver lean heavily toward the friendship and rivalry paths respectively anyway. Hell, you can max out Bethany's friendship in just a couple of quests in Act 1, whereas Carver already starts you off deep in the red no matter what.

[Xilizhra]

It makes sense though, because Bethany and Carver lean heavily toward the friendship and rivalry paths respectively anyway. Hell, you can max out Bethany's friendship in just a couple of quests in Act 1, whereas Carver already starts you off deep in the red no matter what.

What precisely does that change? Just that Bethany takes less damage from refusal?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Exactly what I said in my last post - cooperating with the templars by peacefully agreeing to go to the Circle in exchange for the templars not charging Hawke and Leandra with the crime of harboring an apostate mage.

 

I didn't get that impression. Some of her dialogue seemed to imply that it was a choice she made.

[KaiserShep]

What precisely does that change? Just that Bethany takes less damage from refusal?

Well it's more about Carver. It just makes sense that it's worse (better for the mage dramaz) if he stays behind, since he's a much more combative character that is more prone to disapprove of what Hawke does.

[Elite Midget]

I don't see it as maturity or knowledge, just as cynicism and resignation.  And Circle Bethany isn't helpless -- she still has the skills and instincts that kept her away from the Templars for many years.  She lived as an apostate before, she can do it again if she has to.

She's well traveled by the time Act 3 starts and even beat you to the MoTA DLC stuff. She has a much greater grasp upon the world for sure, especially considering how Grey Wardens are treated worse than Mages. Her being a Grey Warden Mage means she gets a ton of flack even if she's only there to save lives or something.

 

Bethany wasn't a lone Apostate, she always had her father and later Hawke and Carver to watch over her before DAII starts up. She has no experience living on her own if she goes to the Circle. With Mages being hunted as well it would be foolish of her not to meet up with Mage groupings for better protection.

 

So she's gonna either end up with the Grey Wardens or other Apostate Mages. Out of those choices I personally find her better off with the Grey Wardens as they have far less issues that come with a bunch of VERY angry Apostate Mages where many will be openly using Blood Magic to fight the Templars.

[Neuro]

ayo carver iz a punk y'all

 

jk.  Just discovered this thread via Googling my frustration with Carver over Bethany.  Does Carver have any positive qualities that anyone wants to extol? 

 

Personally, I enjoy Bethany much more.  I want to play as a Mage but am just not sure I can handle Carver's inferiority complex for 20+ hours (or however long he's present for).  

 

Cheers!

[Kynare]

I like Carver. He makes things interesting with his snarkiness. He was also the perfect sidekick to my aggressive mage Hawke. I chose him on my very first playthrough. Of course, I enjoy both siblings because they're both important in fleshing out Hawke's character, but I wasn't as immersed in the Bethany world state.

 

I have a brother in real life though. And we're best friends. So I felt this need to make Carver my best friend (STOP RESISTING) and killing him off before we could be closer made me sad.

[thewatcheruatu]

ayo carver iz a punk y'all

 

jk.  Just discovered this thread via Googling my frustration with Carver over Bethany.  Does Carver have any positive qualities that anyone wants to extol? 

 

I enjoyed the sibling rivalry aspect of their relationship, with sarcastic Hawke kind of knowing she's better than him at everything and playfully tweaking him about it at every opportunity, even though it was kind of clear she still loved him (but maybe that's because I occasionally threw a few diplomatic responses in to avoid pushing him too far) and would never do anything to truly hurt him.