362 réponses à ce sujet

[White_Buffalo94]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

The reason he never acts on what he wants to do, like killing Anders or turning in Merril+Anders is because they are Hawkes companions and it is assumed Hawke would defend them. He says as much in his banter with Fenris. Neither one of them want to risk Hawke's wrath.

Lol when do they say this? I wanna hear that

[Rinji the Bearded]

Haha, I got a banter in Act III with Seb and Anders that basically had Seb talking directly about me wanting to defend Anders, but he said it in such a way that he was trying to not call attention to me, but it was so obvious he was talking about me that I wanted to turn around and punch him.

[Esoj16]

I don't get all the hate for Seb, he's a really nice guy. He's religious but not anywhere near a zealot. I love his banter with Isabela and Fenris, it just shows what a nice guy he is. He's wayyyy better than Anders and he doesn't even preach his religion down your throat like I thought he would. He's not perfect obviously, for all his talk about the Maker he doesn't want to forgive Anders in the end, though I can't blame him. He's also a bit spineless what with backing down on wanting to take back his kingdom and all and I wish there was an option where Hawke allows him to kill Anders instead of making you do it, sort of like Alistair killing Loghain instead of your warden doing it, but for the most part I really enjoy his character.

[Darkannex]

Link3521, I think alot of it depends on what a person likes/dislikes in a character. There's really no blanket response (despite what people attempt to say...that it's his religion/faith that is the reason, etc). Either he connects with people, or he doesn't.

Anders preaches alot on Mage politics. This is very factual. While it gets on my nerves, it is also very much a part of his character/storyline and consistent with his actions and insanity.

Sebastian, on the other hand...acts in a way that is to me inconsistent with his preaching and professed beliefs. He wants to avenge his family, but has you do it. Yet joins you to do it. Then he wants to be a prince/doesn't want to be a prince. Then he wants to marry you, but that whole chastity thing. Then he wants Anders dead, but won't do it himself. And finally, he's going to amass an army to kill all of Kirkwall, because one man destroyed the chantry and the people inside.

I don't hate him...I just find him annoying.

[Esoj16]

Darkannex wrote...

Link3521, I think alot of it depends on what a person likes/dislikes in a character. There's really no blanket response (despite what people attempt to say...that it's his religion/faith that is the reason, etc). Either he connects with people, or he doesn't.

Anders preaches alot on Mage politics. This is very factual. While it gets on my nerves, it is also very much a part of his character/storyline and consistent with his actions and insanity.

Sebastian, on the other hand...acts in a way that is to me inconsistent with his preaching and professed beliefs. He wants to avenge his family, but has you do it. Yet joins you to do it. Then he wants to be a prince/doesn't want to be a prince. Then he wants to marry you, but that whole chastity thing. Then he wants Anders dead, but won't do it himself. And finally, he's going to amass an army to kill all of Kirkwall, because one man destroyed the chantry and the people inside.

I don't hate him...I just find him annoying.

I can see that, he does go back and forth a lot on many issues, if there was an option to allow him to kill Anders I would've liked him so much more  but overall I enjoyed his character 

[Sarah1281]

So in the interests of being fair, I just saw Sebastian's banter where he suggests that Fenris come with him to Starkhaven and train men. When Fenris says he doubts humans would listen to an elf, Sebastian suggests he trains elves instead. I do like that kind of openmindedness about species.

[Darkannex]

Sarah...I had the opposite reaction. To me it was like....um okay. Rather than support Fenris and work to make the army respect him...he grants him a little token army of elves.

But that was just my take...I admit that since I've taken a dislike to him, I tend to view all his actions rather jadedly

[Sarah1281]

I saw it as he offers the real army first but Fenris isn't biting so he offers him the chance to train elves. But I was thinking he was being open-minded more in regards to allowing elves to fight in his army than in regards to Fenris.

Here's a question about Sebastian: He tells Isabela that his family gave him to the Chantry because he was a lot like her and giving his family a bad name. But he also says that he never got his grandfather's bow because he was given to the Chantry before he could lift it. How old was he when he was given to the Chantry? Was he the world's most...active thirteen-year-old or something?

[yuncas]

basbaker wrote...

I was reading a who is your most/least favorite companion in the General Discussion forum and quickly came to realize that I was almost the only one who posted to it who actually enjoyed Sebastian.

My question is why does he spark such negativity?  Is it because people are anti-religion in general?  I suppose if I had to live with someone spouting the Chant of Light every time I turned around, it would gall after a short while.  But Sebastian seemed to me to be very decent - far moreso than any of the official LIs (with the possible exception of Merrill) - and not at all the kind that shoved his religion down someone else's throat.  I really enjoyed the progressive "banter" where he encourages Fenris to question what he believes in.  I enjoyed listening to his responses to Varric's and Anders' ribbing.  And I also found Sebastian to have a pretty sly humor that he managed to pull off without being unkind.  

He definitely goes hardline a couple of times - first when he wants his family avenged by killing the murderers down to the last man/woman, and then again when he demands the death of Anders or else he leaves.  But I think both of those cases are perfectly justified (ironically, Justice would have appreciated Sebastian's stand both times) and add depth to his character.  I think he's extremely well written and I wish I'd had more conversation with him.

Am I the only person who actually appreciates Nice?

The reason I don't care much for the character is because he is pretty much a personal embodiment of orthodox chantry teachings. That being said he's an excellent piece of the plot and story. You get the view of the templars, mages, and wild card Anders, all of whom hold their own radicalized beliefs. To see the views of everyday chantry which is taken as the norm through the eyes of almost all thedas is important for the player to have a proper sense of how far divergent the three other views are from the majority view. 

[Sarah1281]

Am I the only person who actually appreciates Nice?

I think I should add that not liking one character has been called 'nice' does not mean that we're incapable of appreciating 'nice.' Just maybe not Sebastian.

[Medhia Nox]

Yuncas - it sounds like you didn't like him because he was "down to earth" - "middle of the road" - or "didn't make the Chantry look like a bunch of radicals."

[Darkannex]

Actually he said he didn't like him because he was an embodiment of orthodoxy. Then went on to praise the fact that including him gave a rounded view of all types.

[yuncas]

Darkannex wrote...

Actually he said he didn't like him because he was an embodiment of orthodoxy. Then went on to praise the fact that including him gave a rounded view of all types.

As a person I thought he was a likeable enough character, but he fell back on chantry teachings whenever there was a hard to answer or big question instead of trying to draw his own conclusions.

I wouldn't say it gave a rounded view of the different factions as much as it gave perspective to the player regarding how far off their beliefs and actions were from the accepted norm. 

[HolyJellyfish]

Sebastian just doesn't feel as integrated into the team as the others do. He doesn't seem to really get along with any of the characters, and he's the butt of many of their jokes. Whereas everyone is willing to stand by you out of loyalty and love whether or not you kill Anders or take any side (Mind you, it has to be very HIGH rival / friendship), Sebastian is very selfish in retrospect.

[rak72]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Sebastian just doesn't feel as integrated into the team as the others do. He doesn't seem to really get along with any of the characters, and he's the butt of many of their jokes. Whereas everyone is willing to stand by you out of loyalty and love whether or not you kill Anders or take any side (Mind you, it has to be very HIGH rival / friendship), Sebastian is very selfish in retrospect.

Anders didn't blow up everyone else's home/ mother figure.  He has a right to be a little more ticked off than the rest of them.  And like he said, he could have been in there.

[GunMoth]

WHY SEBASTIAN VAEL PROBABLY LET YOU DOWN. A WALL OF TEXT BY GUN MOTH.

I get very passionate about Sebastian because he is the embodiment of my frustration with Dragon Age 2 right now. Not the cause, but definitely the scapegoat. He had an extremely heavy / important role to play, and he did not fill the shoes. Many of you are probably flappin' yer lips at yer computer screen right now saying something like, "But Gun Moth, why would a DLC character carry such weight? Sebastian doesn't even seem like that big of a deal." Well curl up youngin', grab a snack. Let me open yer eyes. 

1) NEUTRAL GOOD, NEUTRAL EVIL, AND TRUE NEUTRAL. My initial impression of Sebastian's character, after having a surprisingly pleasant interaction with the Grand Cleric, was that he was going to be the neutral female romance choice (we have the lawful and chaotic neutral characters, Varric and Isabella, however Varric is not romancable). I assumed he would be male Isabela if you will. However, he falls in the category of Lawful good, along side Aveline. Which isn't an issue, but females already have Lawful and Chaotic choices that are heavily involved in the storyline. Anders and Fenris can player characters them because of the choices they make at the final confrontation. Males run into that issue as well, but their characters do not embody the power struggle between the mages and non- mages as much as Anders and Fenris do. After Anders blew up the Chantry, I wanted nothing more than to rip his head off and wear it as a hat, but I didn't want to waste my entire playthrough of courting him to simply drop his romance. I wanted nothing more than to settle down with someone completely neutral so that I wouldn't have to worry about wasting more time. However, there is none. :'D Sebastian gets angry about mage sympathy decisions on occasion and will leave if you spare Anders. I couldn't simply make decisions, the game had to make them for me. 

2) NATHANIEL VS. SEBASTIAN. Although Sebastian's side story was heartwarming, most of us had heard it somewhere before. Nathaniel and Sebastian are not IDENTICAL, but they are far too close and will cause someone who does not know about character development to shout "THEY RIPPED OFF NATHANIEL *crycrycry*" which is something Bioware should consider when producing a product for a large audience (Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they have and I don't mean to take it out on Bioware, but they often times feel very conjointed, which is a problem in some videogame companies). Plus, you give Sebastian his grandfather's bow as a loyalty gift, which he then uses later. Nathaniel's loyalty gift is similar. I think it was his great grandfather's though?

3) THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT. I'm an athiest in real life, however, this does not impact my view on the Chantry because its extremely relative to the story and the ~*~*~*~mysterious magic~*~**~ things in Thedas. However, I'm sure that a lot of players who have been harassed by religious fanatics in real life have a subconscious hatred for the Chantry. Or rather, they feel the Chantry is obnoxious and they don't consciously make the connection that they're projecting their feelings about a real religious belief onto the Chantry. (This can also be said about other belief systems in Dragon Age) Being actively religious is not something I, or many other players can relate to, so making the only option who is not excessivly whiny a Chantry going lad, he kind of looses his appeal. :C 

IN CONCLUSION: I know fans demand a lot of things from Bioware that they simply cannot have. But I feel like this needs to be said: the relationships in DA 2 were constricting for me (as a female player). Many of us went with Alistair in DA Origins, and although I don't like my men virginile and clingy (but I also don't like them tan, blonde and with a crazy accent..), he had a wit / charm about him that was difficult to ignore. Everyone in Dragon Age 2 was broody, stubborn, and easy to disagree with on religious, political, and social levels. 


I cannot believe I just wrote this. 
NINJA EDITS

Modifié par GunMoth, 17 mars 2011 - 08:42 .

[Ryzaki]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

The reason he never acts on what he wants to do, like killing Anders or turning in Merril+Anders is because they are Hawkes companions and it is assumed Hawke would defend them. He says as much in his banter with Fenris. Neither one of them want to risk Hawke's wrath.

Lol when do they say this? I wanna hear that

It's a banter. I got it with Fen, Seb and Anders (who hilariosly interrupts) Seb says its their duty to report the apostates (or malificar forgot which word he used). Fen goes if you want to do that to take it up with hawke and that seb didn't do it because he doesn't want to betray Hawke. 

Anders if he's there will chip in with the templars *know* he's there but they just can't catch him. 

[GunMoth]

Oh also: No hate to Sebastian fans out there! This doesn't have to do with his character. If he took the place of Fenris, it would make way more sense.

[Damotta]

klarabella wrote...

He's a nice addition to the party. I'm trying to get him to 100% rivalry at the moment.

Certainly perfectly capable of getting on your nerves, but also the kind of guy who will eventually embrace what life throws at him and accept willing to accept what he thinks is his calling. That's admirable, I suppose.

I looked like this o.O when he said he used to be like Isabela. WHAT?! ;-)
It's the same with people who quit smoking, they turn into the most fervent anti-smokers.

Edit: Oh, and I appreciate that despite a similar background, he's not simply Alistair 2.0.

I liked him too but I agree that he was a little useless in the Fighting department. I would have rather had another Stone golem or at least some one durable and worth using in a fight. I kept him around for CC.

[basbaker]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I saw it as he offers the real army first but Fenris isn't biting so he offers him the chance to train elves. But I was thinking he was being open-minded more in regards to allowing elves to fight in his army than in regards to Fenris.

Here's a question about Sebastian: He tells Isabela that his family gave him to the Chantry because he was a lot like her and giving his family a bad name. But he also says that he never got his grandfather's bow because he was given to the Chantry before he could lift it. How old was he when he was given to the Chantry? Was he the world's most...active thirteen-year-old or something?

For the first point, I took it to mean that he really wanted Fenris to train some men.  The initial response Fenris gave was that he doubted humans would want to learn from him.  While there are very stronge prejudices against elves, I think that his answer was even more about not realizing his own worth.  Why would he?  He's been a slave for almost all of the life that he can remember.  So Sebastian offering elves as an alternative sort of takes the surface argument away from Fenris.  But I freely admit that I tend to look at Sebastian in a positive light, and not everyone will read that much into things.

For the second, the Grand Cleric said that Sebastian was affirmed about 10 years ago (this at the beginning of the Champion's second year in Kirkwall).  I estimate Sebastian's age to be late 20s, possibly even early 30s, considering that he says at some point that he hasn't seen Starkhaven for fifteen years.  Given to the Chantry sometime in his teens, against his will, possibly made for lots of midnight forays to the local taverns and whatever to carouse.   And even if his drinking and wenching all came before he was sent away, what local village girl or servant is going to tell one of the princes "no" when he wants favors, despite his youth?

[Esoj16]

Ryzaki wrote...

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

The reason he never acts on what he wants to do, like killing Anders or turning in Merril+Anders is because they are Hawkes companions and it is assumed Hawke would defend them. He says as much in his banter with Fenris. Neither one of them want to risk Hawke's wrath.

Lol when do they say this? I wanna hear that

It's a banter. I got it with Fen, Seb and Anders (who hilariosly interrupts) Seb says its their duty to report the apostates (or malificar forgot which word he used). Fen goes if you want to do that to take it up with hawke and that seb didn't do it because he doesn't want to betray Hawke. 

Anders if he's there will chip in with the templars *know* he's there but they just can't catch him. 

 There's a HUGE difference between not doing it out of fear for Hawke and not doing it because he doesn't want to betray Hawke....glad you put that there for context

[nos_astra]

Damotta wrote...
I liked him too but I agree that he was a little useless in the Fighting department. I would have rather had another Stone golem or at least some one durable and worth using in a fight. I kept him around for CC.

Really? He works just fine for me.

He's an aggro hog like Varric (in my game). Rogues, archers, damn them all. *sigh*

Warrior!Hawke (without useful tanking skills): What the hell? Where are all the-
Varric: *unconscious*
Sebastian: *unconscious*
Isabela: *is being beaten to pulp by enemies*
Hawke: <_< That went well.

Modifié par klarabella, 17 mars 2011 - 10:54 .

[Sarah1281]

Link3521 wrote...
 There's a HUGE difference between not doing it out of fear for Hawke and not doing it because he doesn't want to betray Hawke....glad you put that there for context

Well...that's not exactly what he says.

Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars.
Fenris: Then why haven't you done it?
Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own.
Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right?
Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free. Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots?
Fenris: Uh-uh. You want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke.

Sebastian says that the fact that Anders and Merrill are Hawke's friends is not reason enough to ignore the issue.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 mars 2011 - 10:55 .

[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Sebastian says that the fact that Anders and Merrill are Hawke's friends is not reason enough to ignore the issue.

Technically he's right. But technically he's also supposed to stay in the Chantry and live a life of quiet contemplation.

[Esoj16]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Link3521 wrote...
 There's a HUGE difference between not doing it out of fear for Hawke and not doing it because he doesn't want to betray Hawke....glad you put that there for context

Well...that's not exactly what he says.

Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars.
Fenris: Then why haven't you done it?
Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own.
Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right?
Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free. Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots?
Fenris: Uh-uh. You want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke.

Sebastian says that the fact that Anders and Merrill are Hawke's friends is not reason enough to ignore the issue.

Oh ok, you guys have got to explain what it actually means   anyway I do think Sebastian is a bit spineless, as I've said before, but he's a good person and one of my favorite companions, and from that banter I take it Sebastian wouldn't have a problem betraying Anders and Merril, an abomination and a blood mage, but I wonder if he'd have a problem betraying Hawke?  He never gave me any indication that he disliked my apostate mage